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Hey, FyreHeart! Looks like we have the beginnings something very interesting. Iray or 3Delight?
First and foremost, what's the story here? Set this in your mind and then we can work on the details and the lighting to bring it out. As I look at your render, I'm trying to find some clues as to what is happening. We have what appears to be an officer in uniform handing a paper with secrets to me the viewer. The background is just a wall and the officer is in the dark.
So, why is the officer in the dark? Flesh out your backstory as an author would. Darkness implies that he does not want to be seen - why? Is he doing something he should not be doing? Treason perhaps? Let us know what your story is so we can make more suggestions. Think about the clues in his body language, expression and surroundings including props that will tell us the story.
As far as the lighting goes, he looks very flat in the shadows. Also, in a historical setting there are no spotlights, so you will need to think of where the candles or oil lamps are located that are providing the lighting.
I'm really liking this. Nice pose, color, surroundings and lighting.
One more thing before you do post work and see it later and have to come back to fix it...!
The leather hanging from her bodice needs to be posed so that gravity is affecting it.
I would love to help you with the posing, but I need to know more about your character. What are you trying to portray here? The background and lighting and textures are beautiful, by the way, but we need a story.
What is she doing in the corridor? What's she up to? Think about what you want to say about her. If you are having some trouble, think about it like a scene from a movie. See the action in your mind to the point where you snap this picture.
Let me know and I'll put together some steps to help you get the pose. Remember that since we can't see her face, her pose must be exaggerated because there is no expression to clue us in.
Welcome to the contest! I work in 3Delight, so let me help you out.
Lighting: It's a bit dark. With 3Delight, the best lighting comes from blending several lights. I'm assuming you have just one light here, the key light (main light). You can add more than one distance light by the way, coming from different directions (even below the ground). To keep shadows from conflicting, turn off the shadows with these "fill lights." The more lights there are, you will need to turn them down so the render is not overexposed. Play a little bit with subtle color in the lights, warm and cool tones, like a tiny amount of neutral blue in the main light, and maybe some pale neutral yellow in the fill lights.
If you add any more lights with shadows (on the background perhaps?), they need to point them in the same direction as your main light. 3Delight doesn't have a sun setting like Iray, so we have to fake it. Not sure if you know this already but you can set the direction of distant lights and spotlights by selecting them in the view (next to perspective and camera). Pan it so that it is pointing the way you want.
If you happen to have an environment or even a character where DAZ or the PA included some lights, look at those for an example.
Clothing: You can change clothing without creating a new texture by using clothing shaders. There are lots of packages out there. Be sure you get one that is for 3Delight - the new ones will say "for Iray." You select the clothing item, then open the surfaces tab and open the twistie to see the material zones. Use the surfaces selection tool and it will outline the surface. Then choose your shader and merge it in.
The super cheap way of changing clothing is to play with the diffuse color on the surfaces tab. Just remember that you are adding color on top of the original, so you can't make her outfit pink. But you could change it to a nice dark teal. Specular or Specular 2 will add a different highlight. For example, a very dark diffuse and a light specular/specular 2 will create two-toned fabric that is dark but will shine with another color when the light hits it.
You can also use this same technique to darken the complexion of a character's skin. I have even taken a light skin and turned it blue or green! This can also work for hair - but you really don't need to add more red to her hair at this point.
The background looks like it's Millennium Environment or Multiplane Cyclorama. Some of them come with some plants - if you have some, put a little grass or something at the base of your trees to hide the fact that they are just stuck in the ground like a telephone pole.
Pose: The horse's left front hoof is stuck in the ground a little. Maybe you can show the return of affection by turning the horse's head towards the girl.
I'm not sure what you mean by the pose distorting or your laptop giving you fits while you are posing. If you are experiencing slow down, you can hide the clothing (except for the shoes). It's often easier to pose the characters without the clothes showing. Just keep in mind that when you bring hands, arms close to the body you will need to turn the clothes back on to give enough room. Sometimes clothes will collide and try to wrap around fingers on a hip or a forearm too close to the body and you will have to make some adjustments.
I dunno, this one needs more spice. Can't seem to get the feeling. Any suggestions? Thanks
Personally I think it is too bright. You have moonlight coming through a window as indicated by the godrays in the background. You have firelight in an urn type container to the side. There should be a mix of bluish light from the moon and yellowish light from the fire but I do not really see evidence of this on either figure.
I see indications of a nice rim light on your female vampire.
Perhaps try turning down the intensity of the ambient light. Try to create some more shadows.
Completely new to all of this. I am use to texturing uvmaps, adding colors, lighting, highlights, shading, etc. I have played with the changing texture maps did the hair on my avatar and the eye color using the uvmap. I have played only a little bit with clothing and changing the colors.
Lighting is completely new to me, why I have entered the contest to learn and get tips on the lighting. There is only so many videos and character/scene tuts a person can do. I think I have done them all so far. lol :) One reason i decided to jump off the deep end and give it a try. Lights: I have one spotlight shining from the left hand side of the pic and the distant light I believe I have pointing in the same direction not too far from their feet. I was not completely happy with the lighting, but I am also thinking about being in a tree filled meadow. I like the light suggestions you give and will give that a whirl. :) Thanks!
I absolutely know nothing about 3delight or Iray, something I want to learn though. I have looked around trying to find more info, with not much luck. I could be just missing it though.
You are correct about the background. I think it did come with plants if not I believe I have some other stuff with plants, so I can do that. I have done some 3d modeling so eventually I would like to make some of my own things that may not be available. My thoughts are to learn about Daz and Bryce. Working in them with all the bells and whistles they have and going from there. I have been looking for info on shaders so I could learn more there also. I have several wood, cloth, etc textures I have done with other 3D work. It would be fun to utilize them here if I could. :)
I have turned his head toward her, maybe moving it a bit more would be good. It could be the way the camera is aimed at them gives the idea his head is not turned? I thought I got his foot up high enough. Hard to tell the where exactly the 'floor' is sometimes. lol
As for posing, yes I guess 'slow down' would be a good explanation. This is one of the better scenes to make poses in. I have a scene with V7 and the newer Collective3d Portrait Vignettes Contemporary 4.
I get V7 in the chair sitting go to move her hand/arm so it is not stuck in the side. My laptop and daz frees up (not responding message)and when it finally gets moving again her arm is in the extreme opposite direction I wanted it. lol I have tried to pin down parts of her body. I even parented her with the chair so she would not move out of it. She was fully clothed and the scene decorated. I scrapped it for now and will start from scratch. I might just introduce the chair, floor, and her in the buff plus shoes. Try to pose her that way and add everything else after the fact. :)
I think I covered all you mentioned. I will definetely give your suggestions a try. I have an idea for her shirt, which will stick with the medieval color scheme. I will see what I can do. The regular folks were not all that colorful, compared to the royality in the clothing department.:)
Thanks again for all the input! :)
You will find more tips here in the magazine:
https://twitter.com/DSCreative_Mag
You can learn more about 3Delight here (it gets pretty technical).
http://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/55128/3delight-laboratory-thread-tips-questions-experiments/p1
I have learned a lot from Dreamlight tutorials. They are pretty expensive normally, but go on sale for 75% off once or twice per year.
There is a discussion about 3Delight vs. Iray. Each render engine has its strengths, and from the comments, I am gathering that one is not better than the other, but a matter of preference. I still haven't learned as much as I want about 3Delight yet, so beyond a test render or two, I have not invested much time in Iray, but I will eventually experiment with it. It's pretty new and shiny and people are still discovering what they can do with it - which is pretty exciting. Iray does require an NVIDIA graphics card to fully utilize its power. If you are interested in Iray, keep that in mind when you upgrade your computer.
I have a few dreamlight tuts, more of the beginner ones. It's kind of where some of my cash went, when I got started here in January. I did get in on the good sales, so I saved and spent a lot too. :)
Oddly, enough I have always had an NVIDIA graphics card just not a high end one. I am not sure if I want to dump $200 plus in a graphics cards with 4 GB of ram quit yet. Looking for a compromise. I think like you for now I just want to learn 3delight, which from what little I have read is about what my pc and/or laptop can handle more easily.
Thanks again for your input. It is really appreciated. :)
Back to work for me!
I agree. The light is so bright it looks like they are in daylight - not the sort of thing a vampire likes. The godrays/moonlight is also so bright that it looks like sunlight coming in. Moonlight should be subtle. The horror scene benefits best with powerful shadows, so bring your ambient light down very low and allow the fire to light her and the moonlight to create a rim light behind her.
You may find that the right side of both your figures will be shaded quite a bit. It should be a mix of cold light on the right and warm on the left - maybe more cool than warm. You know, think about some horror novel and the author describing how the 'warmth of the fire didn't have the strength to overpower the chill of the night...'
OK, you get the picture. What I'm suggesting is that you can strive for the opposite of what I'm trying to do with the Sailor and Captain playing chess at night, where the lamp light is pushing back the moonlight. In your horror scene, have the moonlight win - that's her element anyway. The lighting can be very poetic here, because the creature of the night is victorious over the warm-blooded person of the day.
Art is so cool that way.
3Delight render. Iray (again) ignores my lighting effects. And yes, that's Michael 4.
Story wise, I was kinda thinking he's just returned from behind enemy lines and is passing on the intel he's gathered. He and his contact (the viewer) suspect their identities are known and counter-intelligence is attempting to stop the transfer of the documents, so they must act quickly and secretly.
I hadn't given much thought to the era. I picked his uniform because it "looked right". The setting is supposed to be a seedy back-alley hotel or bar where nobody asks questions, and a single dim bulb hangs above each table, hence the spotlight effect.
-Fyreheart
I thaught that I recognized him. He's still one of my goto figures when I'm working on my own ideas. (Used him in a render I did once and my mother said he reminded her of myself. Makes since because the character that he was representing was from a friends online comic and said friend had based on me.) I like your backstory, keep it up.
Do you have headlamps off? The two characters seem really bright and I cant figure out where the light is hitting them from. It looks like headlamps.
Here are my changes...Renamed the entry. I made some changes and additions to clothing, in particular took the uvmap and changed the shirt color. Lights: changes (color) and additional. Fixed and changed poses. Added more grass clumps and changed some of the green coloring.
"Best Friends"
So far all in Daz 4.9 and 3Delight. :)
Wow this is looking so much better I feel the love between them now the interaction is great. and the lighting is great too
Thanks Sapphire.
I think I am done with it for the most part. I will do another scene (indoor, different lighting) just for more practice before the thread closes. I need to take notes so I remember what all to do and can do that I have learned so far. :)
You are very welcome and I so can not wait to see the new render when you get it finished with it
Great backstory!
Now, think about how you will give the clues to the viewer to reveal this backstory. As an artist, you are a storyteller - but you do it with pictures. Logically, we would want to see that single, dim bulb at the top of the render, with a lamp shade to block the light shining in your officer's face.
Since he has just returned from enemy lines... where's the dirt, disheveled hair, stubble, bruise, cut, etc., to show that he just came back and had a rough mission?
Seedy is displayed by the cracked surfaces of the wall behind him and the table. How about something on the table besides the paper? A glass, cigarette in an ash tray or something like that? An empty plate or place setting pushed to the side would show this. Go through your environments and see what you can pull out of them to enhance your render. Sometimes you already own cool props in a package that you may have overlooked. Even if you Photoshop/GIMP it, a hole in the wall with a rat peeking out will make the place seedy.
You may want to rethink your uniform for two reasons: You are in the age of electricity and the uniform looks like it's from an era earlier than that. Also, if this is a secret meeting, he wouldn't want to announce to the enemy who is by wearing a uniform.
What will clue us in that he is wary of being watched? Maybe his eyes can be looking to the side while the paper is being thrust forward. Pinch his brows to give the look of strain. Make him lean forward to give tension. You can also think about adding tension in his hand by raising his forearm and bending his wrist down so that only his fingertips are touching the paper.
As far as lighting, I think adding a rim light on one side would outline his features and really bring out depth. If you choose to have his eyes looking to the side, have that be the side the light is coming from. The look of one side of the face lit and the other in shadows is very dramatic. Also, incandescent bulb light is yellow - tint your spotlight with a little yellow. Same with the light coming from the side, unless you are in a neon sign era and you want to add a little color to the rim light. 3Delight lighting looks best when you blend light from several sources. Even a light that is very dim and a dark color will add depth - like the dark background in a oil painting.
A couple more things - how do we tell that he is not some bad guy selling secrets? Perhaps a ring on his right hand, and a hand opposite him (i.e.., from me the viewer) of the person reaching for the papers - if it's the same ring, you demonstrate that they are of the same organization. Rings for men, however are pretty hard to find though. You could take a woman's ring and turn it around so all you see is a band.
These are all suggestions, so use what you like.
OK this should be my final render with postwork for Bishop Takes Queen. Got a party to host tomorrow so I'm going to sleep on it before I post it.
Great render Dracorn. :)
Hit a point I like my image so went ahead and posted in the contest thread. Thanks to everyone who helped me on it.
@dracorn Terrific render. Your characters are wonderful and the lighting shows them off well.
@Liana Your image is coming along nicely, this last render is very good. Moving the lighting to one side to cast some shadows might add to the image and make them more a part of the background.
@Gallows I also think the image is to bright. Bringing the lighting down and letting shadows form would help them be more a part of the set. Also suits the horror theme better to be dark and shadowy.
@rufuslong Your lighting and set are very well done. I agree with others that making her look either ready for action or bored would help create a story. Posing definately takes a lot of practice -- no time like the present for that. I like to find a pose I like in pictures (usually a Google search) then start working with the dials until it finally gets there. Save a lot as you go to be able to go back. After a while it gets easier.
@Myerz80 Nice work, the lighting is great. Maybe add some sparks and light intensity at the point of the weld in postwork.
Still working it. Thanks for all the helpful suggestions. This a hard program and "I know it's only rock an roll but I like it". ;)
Coming along, but it still doesn't quite have that Alex Ross look yet.
The lighting is much better. With her new pose you need to adjust her hair. It should be hanging away from her body a bit.
I haven't thought of Alex Ross in a long time. He has a very distinct style. Lots of vibrant colours and strong shadows. Because it has been so long I Googled him and have been looking at his art. He either keeps it relatively simple with a monochromatic colour scheme and strong shadows or very vibrant with lots of colours and action but with soft edges (if that makes any sense).
You might want to try softening the background with either DOF or some haze ( or both ) to make the buildings and sky less prominent and intensify both the light and shadows on your heroes.
Knocked this out the night before last, but forgot to post it until now.
Nice image Shinji. Your story is really coming together with the addition of each soldier.
Dracorn, nice render. I really like the image. I have no suggestions, just a thumbs up. ;)
Gallows, I much prefer the image this way myself. It is much more focused. I do agree the hair needs adjustments.
Liana. I am liking the subtle changes you are making. The red shirt seems like a drastic change but it improved things a little. But I think all the little stuff like angles, and posing and small changes to the daylight seem to have had a large impact on the picture to me. It looks good.
I am cutting this competition to the wire it seems. I am unable to work on my entry until Tuesday or Wednesday. I should have it posted by Friday though.
Hi all! Thanks for your feedback and tips and sorry for not answering, I've been away from home the whole week. Here is my latest WIP, I tried to improve the shape of the cloth and changed the mood of the image :P.
I'm not satisfied with the glow on the skull, I made it with an emissive geometry shell but I didn't get the results I expected; I was looking for a "voodoo" green glow. Any advice on this?
Thanks..I will give your suggestion a try. :)
Thanks. :) It was good for me to go ahead and dig around with the option to change clothing color. It is something I want to learn to do anyways. I tried the easy way and didn't not like the result as well. So, I dug out the uvmap and worked on it and made a bump map (I believe it is called) to help with the cloth texture. I did change the 'color' on some of the other clothing parts right in Daz and I was ok with the look of them. I need to go back over that stuff again. :)
I might do some postwork in GIMP. I played around a little with the 'light' and liked the look. I was trying to do most of that in Daz it pushes me to learn more about the lighting. I need to do a bit more reading, then finish it up. If I get enough time I will post a project I mentioned earlier I have been working on either here or in my own thread for suggestions and ideas to improve it. :)
Thanks again everyone!