Product for 4.5 only
Penname
Posts: 343
I put the new Diner Waitress in my cart, and then decided short order cook should go in too, but it says it requires 4.5 (don't remember seeing that before). I went to the "readme" website and the waitress has duf files whereas the short order cook only has dsf files. I'm confused. I would have expected it to be the other way around.
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.duf has replaced .dsf for user facing files in 4.5.
True, but I believe what Penname is saying -- and what I've just checked to see -- is that the Readmes for both products are incorrect.
Diner Waitress is a 4.5-only compatible product, and does not say so, while Short Order Cook can be used with 4.0, but says it's only 4.5-compatible. I've used Short Order Cook in 4.0 myself, so I can confirm that you can do so.
And just to make things really confusing, Dot Check, the texture set for Diner Waitress, can be used in 4.0. On what, I have no idea, but all of its user-facing files are DSA and DSB, so 4.0 should be able to see and use them.
A major issue, and one that's likely to persist for a while, is that during the transitional period to 4.5, there will be items produced that are exclusive to 4.5, but don't say so. I will admit, seeing a product mislabeled the other way around is a bit of a surprise. That said, I would expect that with the next update for the product, Short Order Cook's files will be upgraded to DUF, and probably with Dot Check as well. That's what happened with Breezy for the Summer Dress -- and the readme for Breezy still doesn't say that it's a 4.5-only product.
That is what I was pointing out - that they are both mislabeled. Just a heads up for anyone hanging off on 4.5 that they should check the readme files before purchase. And DAZ needs to watch the labels, esp. for the new products.
I just figured .duf was a comment on my work :cheese:
''Diner Waitress is a 4.5-only compatible product, and does not say so, while Short Order Cook can be used with 4.0, but says it’s only 4.5-compatible. I’ve used Short Order Cook in 4.0 myself, so I can confirm that you can do so.''
I'm using the Diner Waitress in DS 4.0.
Yes, it turns out it can be used in 4.0, My mistake there.
However, the file list attached to the Diner Waitress Readme says that all the clickable files should be DUF and not DSF, so something is messed up somewhere.
This is why im still scared of making products in 4.5... Think Ill wait for the dust to settle abit
Well, ok, I bought the 50's Diner Waitress and it works in 4.0, even though the readme suggests otherwise. So I'm happy to be able to have it! Next up (so to speak), short order cook.
Um, why don't you move to 4.5? Solved a couple problems I was having in 4.0.
I have a lot of product I didn't get from daz, particularly shaders, and my understanding is that they may not work properly in 4.5, and some plug-ins appear to be pending upgrades. I haven't had any problems with 4.0 at all so I can certainly wait until most issues are ironed out.
S
Can only answer for myself but:
1. I'm not experiencing any problems with the final 4.0 release.
2. Many people are experiencing everything from installation to compatibility problems with 4.5. I don't want to be one of those people.
3. It's 4.5, not 5.0. Many changes followed by many bug fixes will occur between them until there is a completely stable release. When that is available, I will gladly upgrade even if I have to pay for it.
4. Much of the content that I own would have to be re-downloaded, for the versions that are compatible with 4.5. I would have to delete a sizable Runtime, just to replace it with updates. I have a limited amount of broadband available each month, and a limited lifespan and would rather spend it. creating.
5. When 5.0 becomes available, I suspect much of the same product would cause point #4 above all over again. But I would rather only do the downloading and updating once.
Other than that, I can't think of a thing. I mean the above, but my attitude is entirely tongue-in-cheek and I mean no disrespect to you, Torby.
I am sincerely happy you aren;t experiencing any problems with the change and hope things continue to work well for you and everyone else.
Basically I'm too lazy and chickens$%# to try it out, too. :red: :)
Arealights are broken in 4.5, thats my reason.
Thank you! Glad to finally find this out: "Diner Waitress for Genesis" is 4.5 compatible not fully compatible with 4.0. My time was wasted on this product.
The product description which I just checked again as of this post still does not specify this difference.
Also, the product description lists 11 morphs "Plus movement and adjustment morphs" but these do not appear in any of the loading panels.
What did load was several icons, some marked "new" even though I had uninstalled a couple of times and close and rebooted. It was not fun clicking on each icon trying to load. There are tiny letters, like A I guess for Aiko, and H probably for Hiro. The ones marked with the Power loader icon don't work. I honestly don't know which one worked after several tries, excepting the shoes. They only had one loading pane and it wouldn't budge. The morphs sure would have helped with poke-through. Those must have been the file error message.
I spent way too much time on this redownloading, un/installing etc. Yes, the garment figures will load in 4.0 but there is only one way to fix poking through listed in the adjustment/shaping side, it is something called mesh collision/smoothing. It makes the texture badly distorted.
I got the apron on top of the skirt, but the bulge of the skirt over the knee showed in the texture as a bad distortion. Using the "invisible" eye option did not work. Thighs are longer in Genesis than V4.After all of that, the exported obj had the poke-through!!! Evne though I used the "invisble" eye in the rendering program, the thigh was too long and took away part of the shin. What a waste. Yes, a strategically placed table helped. But that is not a good product.
For the same reasons as tjohn listed above, I am not going with 4.5 yet. I'm finally willing to work with 4.0 because I finally broke down and bought the V3/M3 converter program and am pleased with that so far.Why? Because I invested in content, and because I don't like the pudgy basic Genesis face. I'm considering the V4/M4 converter because I do like the faces in that version also, and a lot more content with $$$$ spent on it. But I wonder if there is any point to it with the new file structure for 4.5 since the file format is changed. After all, if I can't buy Genesis clothes for Genesis to fit in version 4.+ without buying still new other converters just for its own product --not to mention the older stuff, what is the point? It's all very irritating. Of course, the simplest thing in any case would be accurate advertising.
If you do a good bit of cartoon rendering stick with 4.0. Most of the toon shaders I have don't work right in 4.5 and the default cartoon render setting doesn't do toon renders sometimes I've noticed.
I usually use toon shaders in combination with the default toon render settings and many thing don't render right with 4.5.
I also own this product and you're right, there are a lot of weird unclear load images in Smart Content, and the morphs are broken in 4.0. However I have discovered some helpful hints, Use the Content Library to find and load the clothing parts one by one. This first image is the product loaded as is with the take order pose applied. The Skirt is poking through the Apron, and is shrink-wrapped to the right leg where it touches.
The Apron and Apron strings are "fit to" the Genesis figue by default. select the Apron and strings and change this to fit to the Skirt. Also the collision is 1 by default. Change this to 5.
Now we still have the shrink-wrap problem. Click the Scene tab and select the Skirt. click on the down arrow and work your way down the Skirt hierarchy until you find Pelvis. Select this and click on the Parameters tab where you should see Bend, Twist, and Side-to side slider dials. The Bend will rock the skirt forward and back, adjust it slowly forward until it no longer is in contact with the leg. Now the pleats look normal. You can use Side-to-side the same way until the skirt hangs in a more natural way. The changes can be seen in the image below.
This not the first time I have seen a new product with problems that are fixed by updates. This may be the case here. The instructions I gave here may seen complex but no more so than posing the genesis figure by hand instead of a prefab pose. I do like this outfit and have used it in other renders. If the intention had been to make this a 4.5 only product, it would probably be .duf files which 4.0 can't read. Hope I'm right about that, I do like this outfit and it was only 2 bucks. Here are several parts of it in another render with a texture from the Dot Check expansion (also 2 bucks)
Hope this helps
John
...this is exactly what I was afraid of, new content that will not run in older versions of Studio or in Poser because of the file format change.
The foot is there, here's the shotgun, just pull the trigger.
Use outdated tech, and you get left behind. The law of the tech jungle.
The means to keep up is available, and free.
Kendall
...not when it requires a costly investment in new hardware to support it.
@tjohn --The instructions you posted work very well. Thank you for posting them. No distortion of the skirt texture and knee nicely placed under the skirt and the apron. I am pleased to be able to use the waitress model for a project. I did have a chuckle at the matronly woman wearing a polkadot dress in the park. Humor helps!
Many times there are workarounds for existing things regardless of how "advanced" technology gets. I remember watching a man who had taught himself how to make medieval armor fashion a piece of metal to fit something in the engine parts in his old JAG, the really old beautiful one a 1950s XK roadster. Sure, it had been replaced by XKE, J etc and more. It needed some piece that was either not available through dealers or exorbitantly priced, or not found easily in the junkyard. So he made it with his metal shop and know how. We went for a wonderful ride around bendy curves that very night. My son worked at an electrical parts warehouse with "obsolete" parts which sell like hotcakes to big electrical outfits and tiny outposts in the middle of nowhere because not everyone can or wants to upgrade to the most new, un field tested and expensive tech. They just want to get on with life. There is no new versus old. Old tech and new tech can be useful together, as tjohn just showed. Just junking everything and running only new stuff can be horribly expensive and is not really a broadly applicable answer in a world of tools. It takes some skill and creativity to use what we have -the craft in art.
But the real issue here is that the product description was lacking in the important fact of what version it really was intended for. All the finest latest greatest technology will not run without knowing what parts to use that are compatible or that can be made to work. Out of the box cake mix doesn't make a cake if all one knows how to use is an electric mixer and not a spoon. Heh, I knew a girl like that. She came to my apartment and asked how to "beat" the batter. Versatility is a better adaptation in any environment.
Many times there are workarounds for existing things regardless of how "advanced" technology gets. I remember watching a man who had taught himself how to make medieval armor fashion a piece of metal to fit something in the engine parts in his old JAG, the really old beautiful one a 1950s XK roadster. Sure, it had been replaced by XKE, J etc and more. It needed some piece that was either not available through dealers or exorbitantly priced, or not found easily in the junkyard. So he made it with his metal shop and know how. We went for a wonderful ride around bendy curves that very night. My son worked at an electrical parts warehouse with "obsolete" parts which sell like hotcakes to big electrical outfits and tiny outposts in the middle of nowhere because not everyone can or wants to upgrade to the most new, un field tested and expensive tech. They just want to get on with life. There is no new versus old. Old tech and new tech can be useful together, as tjohn just showed. Just junking everything and running only new stuff can be horribly expensive and is not really a broadly applicable answer in a world of tools. It takes some skill and creativity to use what we have -the craft in art.
But the real issue here is that the product description was lacking in the important fact of what version it really was intended for. All the finest latest greatest technology will not run without knowing what parts to use that are compatible or that can be made to work. Out of the box cake mix doesn't make a cake if all one knows how to use is an electric mixer and not a spoon. Heh, I knew a girl like that. She came to my apartment and asked how to "beat" the batter. Versatility is a better adaptation in any environment.
Ummm, this holds (somewhat) for hardware, not at all for software. One can virtualize to "get around an issue" but software is highly dependent on the environment it is written for. It is possible to virtualize Windows7 running on an i7 using a VIC-20 if the user is willing to wait the required amount of time necessary for the simulation to get to the job. I doubt anyone would want to wait.
Kendall
Ummm, this holds (somewhat) for hardware, not at all for software. One can virtualize to "get around an issue" but software is highly dependent on the environment it is written for. It is possible to virtualize Windows7 running on an i7 using a VIC-20 if the user is willing to wait the required amount of time necessary for the simulation to get to the job. I doubt anyone would want to wait.
Kendall
@kendall I think we actually agree, which is how I'd like to leave it. I was not responding just to your post, but to help others who might be reading this looking for help with the Waitress, and like me, tend to feel frustrated with a seemingly simple computer task which turns out to be a typo, an omission, or oversight by the product description.
Honestly, I don't quite understand what you said, " virtualize Windows7 running on an i7 using a VIC-20", but I'll bet if what was supposed to be a i7 was accidentally typed i4 and the VIC-20 was actually a "WIC-26 although not labeled as such and a person bought it, they might be a tad annoyed when it didn't work as advertised, no matter how slow the "correct" things were supposed to be. It's the same thing in programming, which I learned at my very first BASIC program lesson. The instructions had a comma, and no matter how hard I tried, I could not get the program to run "Hello World". My hubby, a computer nerd and guru, reached over my shoulder and said, oh that's not a comma, it's a dot. I pointed out the lesson, and he said, "well, that's wrong." Learned a lot from that lesson. I hope others will find a little relief for this small but irritating problem of the Waitress. For those who want the latest and greatest, great, wade in ahead of us and see if there are any alligators! (I just bought Alessandro's crocodilia and will now go and test it out).
Hi again! Let me just add my $0.02 to this conversation.
One important word:
compatibility
Clothing items can be made that work equally well in 4.0 and 4.5. And I don't mean two separate versions either. If the Genesis clothing made for 4.0 is not working in 4.5, please tell me, because I haven't read anything like that yet.
The artists who make the clothing just need to test out their products in both versions. A little more work, yes, but a lot more sales! And this is business and the bottom line is money.
Many of us are not going to jump on the "band wagon" just because "everyone is doing it". There are legitimate reasons for not changing yet, many of which have been listed in this thread, But to change to 4.5 now, just to not get "left behind"?
4.5 "complete" is buggy. Very buggy - just read through a few threads in these Forums to see how many problems folks are having.
Those of us waiting to change are not afraid of new technology. If we were we would still be wiping clay on cave walls with a stick to create art.
I for one am not convinced that the benefits of changing outweigh the drawbacks yet. When I am, I will be first in line to get mine. :)
A lot more people are not having issues. I'm running it right now a virtual machine and the interface moves a lot quicker than full speed on my main PC and i have a higher performing video card on it. Now that the major plugins have been updated to 4.5, people should be looking at moving to the new version, as the tools for creating Genesis content have been much improved hence why you've been seeing more clothing created in 4.5.
The biggest problem with 4.5, at least for me, is the fact that quite a bit doesn't work in it, some shaders and Area lights for example.
I would like to upgrade from 4 but don't see the point of the advantages if things like the Area lights have been broken, this alone says to me that there are bugs in this version - even if only some people are finding them and reporting them.
A lot more people are not having issues. I'm running it right now a virtual machine and the interface moves a lot quicker than full speed on my main PC and i have a higher performing video card on it. Now that the major plugins have been updated to 4.5, people should be looking at moving to the new version, as the tools for creating Genesis content have been much improved hence why you've been seeing more clothing created in 4.5.
I respect your opinion very much - as a creator of product yourself you know better than I about all of the factors involved. However, one statement you made stands out for me:
"Actually it's being recommended that the products be moved into the official version of DS... which is 4.5."
Which leads me to ask, "Recommended by whom?" and, "Recommended why?"
This sounds a bit like "someone" is hinting that content creators should move to using .duf file formats if they want to keep selling product. Please (and I'm sincere in this as I love Daz3D) tell me that I'm wrong about this, as I find that idea disturbing.
Thank you for your time.
Sometimes a recommendation is just a recommendation.
Coldrake
What's disturbing about what I said? The tools have been improved for content creators, whether for sale or free. And the content is saved to be compatible with the complete SDK for Genesis.... 4.0 isn't the complete SDK, so creating something that isn't completely compatible with future versions doesn't make much sense.