Does NLA only work on vertex objects?
hrpschrd
Posts: 179
I'm all loaded up with IS video tutorials. Watched the NLA of V4 over and over but I can't seem to create clips on a primitive cube without creating key frames outside the clip. I made the cube an animation group first..Followed PWillkes step by step.on the V4 model and it seems so simple . . .
I just noticed something. After creating the clip and selecting it, when I select the cube and to add a keyframe, the highlighted instance becomes the cure and a keyframe is created on the cure in the sequencer instead of in the clip. When I highlight the clip and add a keyframe I am unable to rotate the cube because it is not selected. This is not how the tutorial of V4 works. I may have answered the question. You apparently MUST use a vertex object. Am I right? This is really a dissapointing limitation.
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Nope.
You need to "Edit" the clip to add new keyframes into it.
It worked with a cube for me. Load the cube, select Create Animation Group. Let's try something simple - move to 1 sec and lift the cube up and 2 secs move the cube back down. You will have a couple of keys on the cube. Now select the animation group and go to the NLA tab and Create Master Clip. Use all the defaults and press OK - the keys on the cube disappear and if you run the animation at this point, nothing happens, but you have captured the animation as a clip. All you need to do now is go to the Clips tab and drag the clip onto the Animation Track, and you can then see your working clip.
Hope that helps!
I think the problem came 'after' making the clip, hrpschrd was adding changes and those changes didn't get added to the clip. Instead they went onto the sequencer.
To edit a clip, you must "edit" the clip.
Dartenbeck, you were right: if I make sure to clidk the object before selecting a keyframe and to click "finish editing" it works. In other words follow EXACTLY what is happening in the tutorial whether stated or not.
Now I am finding that I cannot combine these movements. After saving the raise and rotate clips to master tracks and selecting NLA tracks, I can combine these motions in theory. In fact I cannot raise and rotate at the same time whether they are on the same track and overlapped or on different tracks (and at the same times). It seems that the rotate cancels out the raising in both cases. Also unlike the tutorial, when the raising clip gets the cube to the top, it then drops it quickly rather than "morphing" to rotations. Using two rotation clips in two axes does not combine for a double rotation. The tutorial shows dropped arms morphing into a walk not rasing again quickly. This time I think I am following the directions carefully.
I'd have to look to see exactly what to select and where to look, but we can use multiple clips controling the same thing at the same time by setting the clip to either add to or to override other clips. I never do that, so I'm not sure off the top of my head. However, you could just opt to use my workflow instead. Here's how I deal with (what I think is) this situation:
Let's say that I have a clip that knocks the cube around and it turned out really nice, so I saved the clip. Now, when I get the notion to use it again, I realize that I'd like to add some changes, but the things that I want to do are locked out due to the clip... Argh! I don't want to start all over again... what do I do?
Instead of adding the clip to the track, I select the object, go to its NLA track and press "Load Data from Clip" and select the clip. Oh... the clip has to be in the Clips tray of this scene for this to be selectable.
So now instead of a clip, I have keyframes.
I keep it in keyframes so that I can make my changes. When done, I go back to the NLA tab and create a new clip with a new name and save that one too! Now I have a start of a Clip collection!
I do this sort of thing all the time. Since I've come up with this workflow, I've seen others edit keyframes within the clip by editing the clip, which works as well. I just prefer setting everything up with keyframes, myself. Seems easier to me.
Harpschrd :)
If you're fallng from a building ,. you can't be running round in circles at the same time,. One action overrides the other.
You can create additional, separate NLA Tracks,. for different actions,. and each NLA Track can be set to "Override, or Additive"
You can select any NLA track and then go to the parameters and choose which parts of the animation clips in that track effect which parts of your figure.
For example,. I could have two animations,. one walking,. and one waving,. I can either have these run in sequence on one track to have a figue which walks then stops and waves,. But I could add a new NLA track,. then add the waving animation to that track,. then set the "Track parameters" so that the animations in that track only effects the arms of the figure. and not the legs. ..to create an animation of a figure walking and waving at the same time.
Also,.
Counter to what you've just learned about how to make NLA clips,. .. try this method.
Create your cube ,. then animate it over time,. the way you want it. then ,. when you're happy,. go to the NLA tab and click "Create Master Clip"
You DO NOT need to "create an empty clip,. add keyframes to that empty clip,. or edit the NLA clip in the track,
If you want to edit the animation,."Load the clip data" back into the timeline as keyframes,. you can then edit delete or add to that animation and save as a new NLA clip
Save the clips you make to your browser. (they will also be saved within the scene file) unless you remove them before saving.
3DAGE: The NLA Track setting to Additive does just what I was looking for. The odd thing is that the tutorial clearly shows the NLA Track as being in Override mode so I don't understand how PhilW could have had V4 dropping her arms, walking, winking, and running in a smooth progression with morphing. The other issue is that the upward motion clip of my cube is cancelled by the rotation clip which forces it back to the starting plane before rotating. In other words, the clips are not really additive even when the track is "additive". I can't make the cube rise to the top while rotating and stay there for the next actions.
I wonder if there are changes in 8.5Pro that complicate NLA track use. I may be better off using keyframes. Too bad because it looks like an easy way to combine actions in the tutorial.
Andy 3Dage is right when he said to load the clip data and to make the clip after edition.
I hate to edit directly into the clip only for one thing: it's impossible to undo when you delete some keyframes.
Hmm, I would have thought that Additive would work. If I used Override mode in my example, it was because the clips were animating different things, legs, arms, eyes, etc.
HI Hrpschrd :)
It's not that something has changed in NLA,. or that there's a difference between keyframes and NLA clips,. it's the same thing,. (NLA is a container for keyframes)
NLA is just an easy and simple way to save your hours of animation work so that it can be re-used or re-purposed
If you animated the cube with keyframes,. then you'd realise the problem,. The cube's position/rotation have two different animations trying to control the same thing,. one animation is saying move from here,. to here,. ,. the other animation is saying move and rotate from here to here. ...which creates a conflict
both animations are trying to animate the same thing,.. in different ways.
If you select either one of the NLA clips and edit the NLA track parameters to exclude the position or rotation info from participating in the animation,. then you'd get a different result from those clips since only one animation is now controlling the position/rotation.
The Cube isn't the best test subject for exploring NLA,. try a figure,. then it's easier to see how you can create different actions by controlling the legs with one animation, while controlling the arms, hands or head and expressions with other clips.
The advantage of NLA over traditional keyframing is that you can easily move the NLA animation in the timeline, to wherever you need it to happen.
you also have the ability to "Loop" nla clips,.change the timing (speed). or even reverse the animation.
Don't give up on NLA's it's a really powerful feature.
NLA's are powerful as a concept, but their implementation in Carrara is less then ideal, and I used them more then a few times ...
If two objects are parented to each other (part of the robot arm, for example, no skeleton used) there is no reason why one NLA cannot control movement of entire hand and another NLA just a finger.
In this particular example hand NLA moves the finger as well (I fail to see conflict here), cuz finger is a child of it.
The thing is, the NLA's fail here more times then I would like them to.
In my expirience, the deeper the parenting "tree" is, the more likely is that animation is gonna fail and do some wierd things.
This is why I use Carrara's NLA's only when it's absolutely necessary
I've never had much of an issue with them, but then I only use them on rigged objects, either Daz figures or my own rig.
I've also layered them, without any issues, but then, if I want a walk cycle, I tend to concentrate my animation on the legs, torso and neck, and leave the arms and head out of it. That way, when I decide what I want the figure to do with their arms and head, I just create a another track and stick in the NLA I created for the arms, head, whatever.
I've completed a video recently where I did this, but my computer is old, and so is my browser and I can't upload to youtube until I update my computer (and browser), so I can't post an example.
I use NLA clips any time I need to repeat a moving animation. I have noticed that some (all?) of the cycling clips I've made for my main character in Carrara 8 don't quite work as expected in 8.5 in the following manner:
My Rosie character has some custom scaling done to her to get her shorter, and this has always played havoc on Looping clips of cycles made for V4. So instead of using the Loop function, I had to use a second clip (and so on) and then use the "Match Previous Position" function, and I could create looping cycles that way.
Well, when I load a Carrara 8-made clip of a cycle for her in 8.5, even the Match Previous Position doesn't work. However:
When I "Load Data from Clip" to my character, and then save a new clip, it does work.
None of these things get me down in the slightest, however. I like how the clips system works and use it often.
I do need more practice with using more of their options that I've never explored before. Like above, 3DAGE was saying that we can add a clip and have it only affect certain bones, then add another for other bones. I never knew that. I always saved my clips to only operate certain bones s that the clip wouldn't lock up the bones I didn't include - so, for example, I'd excluded the arms and their children, as well as the head, from a walk cycle so that I could animate head turns and my own arm movements/poses.
Ok, as a beginner I am learning a lot by trying of course, but also by reading this forum.
- Apparently most people are doing simultaneous animations of different grouped objects like fingers, hands, arms, etc. and I can see how the clips work well. The tutorial is a good example.
- I am trying to add two motions (spins) on an object to create a complex motion that is not just spin on one axis and that may not be possible. Perhaps I can spin and object and translate it at the same time and that will be allowed.
- Can you tell me if I use physics can I make several objects collide with each other (like bowling pins) while spinning, and therefore produce the random motion I am looking for with molecules? If I just start them all at the same time will they continue to bounce off each other for 10-20 seconds or do I have to keep giving them energy at certain points? Perhaps a looped clip that just keeps going and colliding?
An easy way to animate from varying axles and/or on different axis:
Cntrl G = Group (Edit > Group)
Even if it's only one object (but can be as many as you want) select it and go Cntrl G to put it in a group. Repeat this to put it in yet another group.
Using groups, we may apply different animation movements to each group individually.
Caps Lock On = change Hotpoint location - Caps Lock Off = lock the Hotpoint again
Changing the Hotpoint's location can help us to rotate an object somewhere other than its center. Furthermore, if we select the Scale tool (S) and drag on the object, not the tool, and we scale the object from the Hotpoint (Something I've learned by leaving "Show Tips at Start" turned on and occassionally reading what it says)
Using both of these techniques together, we can get an object to spin along its center (or even off center) and then have it orbit another object. We can also set one group to spin along one axis, group the same object again and have it spin along another axis. We can then group it again and use that group to control translating its position in space, etc.,
Adding objects to groups gives HUGE flexibility for such animations
This tutorial is made for use with DCG's Cognito plugin. But during the course of the tutorial he mentions the technique of using multiple groups to create different motions. A worthy read, indeed! ;)
I was going to suggest something similar to Dart's use of Groups, but I tend to use parenting to Nulls, but the principle is exactly the same. I was once asked to do an animation of molecular vibration. To do random vibration in one direction, I would set up the extrenme positions, let's say on the X axis, and use the random tweener to produce random motion between these extremes. I would then parent that to a Null (or you could use Dart's Group idea, both add another level to the hierarchy) and produce another random motion but this time on the Y axis. Then add another level and do it on the Z axis. So now we have three hierarchically linked motions which produce random motion in 3 dimensions.
For my example, I then needed to make a replicated array from that, and duplicate the vibrating atom and change the random seeds enough times so that it wasn't obvious they were duplicates.
HI :)
When you change any objects motion type from "Keyframes" to "Physics",. you'll see a new area on the motion tab where you can set an "Initial velocity" and "Initial Angular velocity" for any object on the X,Y and Z,. you can set the Density, Friction and Bounce values for each object, in the Effects tab
the initial velocity, provides a directional force,. and angular velocity gives rotation,.
So,. by setting some values for these components,. you can create an object which moves and rotates depending on those initial force values, plus the friction mass bounce settings, for collisions with any other objects in the scene.
You can also add other forces into the scene which can be used to effect physics objects or particles.
All the forces have settings which allow you to adjust the strength, so you can keyframe these values over time,
Physics objects can also use constraints,. which means that one object can be parented to another, and it's motion constrained, or limited..
In the main SCENE settings,. there's a "physics" tab,. where you can adjust the global values for gravity, and some base simulation settings.
Bear in mind that simulations are as accurate as the conditions the uers creates,. whether you make a cup fall onto a hard tiled floor,.. or a soft pile carpet, depends upon the settings for the physics objects, and the sufaces it collides with.
You should do some tests with a few simple objects,. to seee the effects of settin different initial velocity and angular velocity,. then adjustthe friction or bounce for some of those objects,. then adjust the gravity or forces.
Hope it helps
Another fun tip:
If we need anything to form an orbit, just move it away from the central location of the scene, then Insert a Target Helper Object. Now drag the object (in the instances tray) onto the newly added Target Helper Object (which "parents" the object to the Target). Now when we rotate (or otherwise change position of) the Target Helper Object, the Object will follow accordingly.
So, like the Grouping idea, this technique can be repeated for multiple effects. Just keep moving things away from center, parent to a new, centered Target Helper, then move that one away from center, parent to a new, centered Target Helper, etc.,