Animation Interpolation

Imago

Hello everyone!

There is a way to have the same animation "timing" for both DAZ Studio and Carrara?

I'm using Carrara to create a mask using particles. After many attempts, I finally managed to have an identical camera angle and focus, identical chars and identical animations. They seems to fit perfectly... But when I put the Carrara generated mask on the DAZ's video, the particles are a bit "late", it looks like it is one or two frames back than the basic animation...

Since the two animations have the same FPS, animation and everything (Tested many times with still images) now I'm pretty sure that there is a little difference in the interpolation...

How can I have the same interpolation for both?

Dartanbeck

I must admit, I'm not entirely sure what it is that you're doing... but it sounds really cool!

One suggestion I could make is to check the tweener types and see if those are the same.

Doesn't make sense though, does it? At first I was thinking that it was FPS related - until I read that you've checked that already... Hmmmm....

chickenman

I wonder about the tweeners types as well.

May have to render with the different tweeners to find the best one.

3DAGE

Daz Studio has one tweener type,. which I believe is spline,.

Carrara has multiple tweener types,. Bezier whould be the nearest match,. but i think you can get DS to save the animations in the scene for each keyframe,. which would eliminate tweeners,. since each frame has a key,. ....there's still a tweener,. but as far as animation is concerned it will lock each frame as a key frame.

You should be able to load your Daz Scene file,.directly into Carrrara,(DUF files).  add your particles, and render

I'm not really clear on what you're doing with the "Daz Video",. but it sounds like you're using a Video editor to add a mask layer to a clip rendered from DS in some way,.

It should be relatively easy (depending on your video editor) to adjust the position of the layers to match up starting frames,. or,.. when that event should occur.

 

 

 

Imago

@ 3DAGE

I already imported the DAZ's scene into Carrara, but sadly the render engine looks to be different... The clips will look completely different and give a bad final result with the two "look... Anyway I'll check this " bezier" thing you named!

@ all

But to check the bezier... Where I have to check? I foind a list of interpolation in Carrara options ( where I think I saw the bezier) but I don't know if they are actually applied to the scene! How can I check?

3DAGE

re-thinking this, 

Animated figures,. use tweeners between keyframes,.  look at the keyframes for your figures in the timeline,. select the area between two keyframes,. thats the "tween"

Once selected,. look at the Top Right hand panel,. it should show you the current tweener type, with a drop down menu to change it (see pic)

Particles don't use interpolation, or tweeners,,. it's a simulation. so. there wouldn't be any keyframes for the particles, ....unless the emitter is moving.

So,. if your figures are rendered in DS, and the particle system is rendered in carrara (at the same frame rate) they should match,. or at least the particle system "mask" should be usable in any multi track video editor,. I assume you're exporting sequences with alpha,.

I'm still not sure what the issue is,.  maybe some screenshots would help, or more details about what you're trying to do.

if the DS render is ahead of the particle mask in time,(in your video editor). just move that sequence back to match up.

just about every 3D program has a different render engine and different shaders, lighting etc,...  (Carrara also has several different render engines) and plugins to use Luxrender or OctaneRenderer,.

 

 

 

Imago

Ok, found them! They was setted on "Linear" even if I put "Bezier" in the options!

Corrected, rendered and now every frame is perfect! That little difference between the two videos is disappeared! Thanks to all!

My problem was the slightly difference of the frames due the different interpolation and the fact that I wasn't aware of how I could change the interpolation... I'm a Carrara user from a couple of weeks, I'm still learning how to use it!

Thanks to all again! Now everything is perfect!

3DAGE

Glad it worked out fo you. ...and Welcone ::)

Imago

Hey all!

Resuming this old post for a new question: Someone knows how to obtain Hermite interpolation in Carrara?
I see there is a "Formula" tweener that can be modified to obtain new tweener effects... But I don't know how to obtain the right formula for Hermite!

DesertDude

Imago, are you trying to achieve a curve like the screen shot? Open the Graph Editor by clicking on the chooser in the Sequencer and selecting Graph Editor (circled in orange). Then, click on a keyframe (circled in red) and then make a selection from the various interpolation options (circled in green). You can then select handles and adjust your curves as needed.
Not sure if that answers your question specifically, but hope it helps.
 

Imago

Yes, it looks like the curve I need but I also need precision... I literally need the same math DAZ Studio uses for its keyframes. I short words I need to make a greenscreen overlay for a scene made in DAZ Studio.

I recently discovered that the Bezier in Carrara isn't identical to DAZ's default interpolation, so the movements aren't the same and the greenscreen mask doesn't match!

Anyway thanks for the tip, DesertDude!

Dartanbeck

Also, just an FYI: You may set the default tweener that Carrara applies in File > Preferences

Tweeners rock. I had no idea that DS was lacking them.

I love the Noise tweener for things like flickering a light that needs to add 'practical' lighting of a fire, for example.

Oscillating tweener is perfect for repeating the same behavior over any period of time (instead of hand-setting all keyframes!)

For example: Carrara also allows us to use animated image sequences or avi files as textures, backdrops, etc., If that animation is just a repeat, instead of using a large sequence the length of our needs, we can make a simple looping sequence and then oscillate the video over time in Carrara: Say we're using a 1 second, 30fps avi file and we need it to loop for five and a half seconds. When we load the avi as a texture map, the texture map view turns into a mini video player with a playhead on the bottom. Frame 0 on the timeline automatically starts this at the beginning. So now we got to the 6 second mark on the timeline and make sure that the playhead is at the very end of the video. Now select the tweener between those two keyframes (if a second key was never added, scrub the playhead a bit at that 6 second mark to create one - just make sure it is at the end of the video when you're done) and choose "Oscillate" and in the settings, choose "Sawtooth" and set it to oscillate six times ;)

Linear also has the ability to Ease In and Out, making it more smooth than a straight, default Linear Tweener

Bezier can also be adjusted for Ease In and Out as well as Tighten In and Out - very useful!

Importing aniBlocks using the plugin for Carrara, GoFigure suggests using linear tweeners for those.

Discrete tweener basically eliminates any tweening - when the keyframe is met on the timeline, the change is made abruptly from the previous keyed event

One of Fenric's plugin packs came with a Stack tweener, allowing us to use more than one tweener in the same tweener spot. I still have to try this one. He's also added a special tweener: ERC tweener - and I've yet to try that as well.

 

Dartanbeck

Carrara also has options available within the timeline as well. We can marquee-select keyframes and use several options, like repeat, reverse and more. This is something I haven't done anything with yet. Cripeman's video tutorial about motion path explains using it to make a repeating walk cycle.

You should also know that we can copy/paste keyframes:

• Select keys to be copied
• hold down the Alt key
• drag the keys to a new area on the timeline
• as they will be deselected when done, I always recommend dragging them to a safe, empty part of the timeline and then drag them to where we really ned them, unless the place we need them to be is already a safe, empty area of the timeline.

Many more animation features exist in Carrara. Nearly everything in Carrara is meant to be animated - often having an animation panel ready for input from the user. NLA clips are an incredible way to store and further tweak and enhance animations. 

Philemo_Carrara

Imago said:

Hey all!

Resuming this old post for a new question: Someone knows how to obtain Hermite interpolation in Carrara?
I see there is a "Formula" tweener that can be modified to obtain new tweener effects... But I don't know how to obtain the right formula for Hermite!

From the look of the curve, you could try tle formula:

 with t being the time betwwen 0 and 1

 

Imago

@ Dartanbeck
Lots of info, thanks... But the question was another.

 

@ Philemo

I guess the formula is good, but how it should be insterted in Carrara? I tried and I get only error messages.

Imago

http://www.cubic.org/docs/hermite.htm

The formula I need could be this:

h1(s) =  2s^3 - 3s^2 + 1
h2(s) = -2s^3 + 3s^2
h3(s) =   s^3 - 2s^2 + s
h4(s) =   s^3 -  s^2

Someone here is good with math and can translate it in a form that Carrara could understand? 

I really need an intyerpolation near to DAZ's default, no need to be ABSOULTELY identical though. I need that because it's perfect for human movements...

Dartanbeck

I tried to link to the hyperlink in the manual, but to no avail.

You might be able to figure out how to translate that to Carrara using the info starting on page 413 of the Carrara 7 User Guide

The table of contents has hyperlinks to take you straight there, and Using Formulas in Carrara entry is on page v, 7th (I think) page of the manual pdf. It does break down how to translate formulae into the language that Carrara understands.

Imago

I'll check it, thanks Dartanbeck!
I'll let you know if I'm sucessful! I guess I'm not the only one who could like to obtain such result!

Imago

I can't understand a single thing, but in the end it has been useful, somwhow...
I found out that the formula I need is the TBC spline... I guess I need some matematician to solve this...

3DAGE

I don't believe that the issue is one of tweener,. or that there's such a thing as a "perfect" tweener type for all human motion,.

Different body parts and different body motions require different types of tweening . bezier or Linear, even oscillate some times. depending on whwt you want.

 

Check that your frame rate for animation is exactly the same in DS and Carrara,. that's most likely to be the issue if there's a noticable difference in matching results from both programs.

also,. really think about only using the most powerful animation program you have,. to do all of your animations,. DS is not suited for keyframe animation,. that's why people use premade animations in DS.

Aniblocks in DS play the same in Carrara,. as do any other animations/simulations

Q: does your animation timeline in carrara look like this example (pic 1)  when you "import" a DS animation

Or,...

Do does it only have a few Keys, ...with space between the KeyFrames (see pic 2)

If it looks like the Pic1 ,. then there's a KEY Frame on Each frame,. which means that there's NO TWEENER,. no ability to add or change anything between two Frames.

Most animations i've loaded from DS or Poser create a single key per frame,. since they don't have a great set of options for different tweener types.

If your animations is loaded as One Key Per Frame,. then any difference in the end results rendered would be from the different "timing" of that animation

Hope it helps

3DAGE

to change the tweener in Carrara,.

Select an area in your timeline between two key frames,. then (on the right hand panel) select the tweener type from the pop out menu.

choose a different tweener type or adjust the tweener settings for the existing tweener type.

Hope it helps :)

Imago

@ 3DAGE

The problem isn't the frame rate or anything else... Everything is perfect: Position, timing, orientation, keyframes... The only issue is the interpolation between the keys (my timeline look crowded, it is a perfect copy of the original from DAZ).

Here's a video with what I mean:

As you can see, the Bezier is the nearest to the TBC but it doesn't behave like it, the difference is too big...
I need a more precise tweener, and since I can't add Bezier to DAZ but I can add TBC to Carrara, I'm looking for the right formula to insert!

3DAGE

With bezier,. you have an "ease in" , and "ease out" options,. you can adjust those to better match the timing of the DS clip

an alternative method would be to duplicate the animation from the figure animated in DS,.. onto the figure in Carrara using an NLA Clip....(like aniblocks)

so that both figures are using the same animation. (one key per frame).

the difference is too big...
I need a more precise tweener,

if there are differences in the timing caused by "wrong tweening" then that is traditionallly fixed by adding additional Key frames to correct the timing at points where it differs

or by adjusting the tweener (ease in /ease out) and possibly both.

hope it helps :)

 

DUDU

When I look at your video, personally, I think that the tweeners of Carrara are more natural than those of DS.
If you want to find exactly the same thing in Carrara, you could try to place your video of DS animation in the background of the scene and tweek the tweener off your character in Carrara to match the background.
If Bezier is too difficult, you can use the Linear one and modify the in and the out.
If it were me, I would start with that…

3DAGE

Work in one program,. and use the program with the most animation tools ,. would be my advice.

right now you're trying to fit Carrara's animation into what DS is doing,. and that's the issue. ....square peg,. round hole,.

if you use carrara to animate,. you'll have more abilities/options,.. and no comparison issues with a "one size fit's all" style approach to animation tweening, and no keyframe editing.

The alternative is to ensure that each animation you create in DS,. has a keyframe on each frame,. (no interpolation/tweening)  Export as BVH, Create Aniblock, or Bake to DS timeline.

that way you're sealing in the anmation and not relying on any automated animation tweening from a specific program.

 

Imago

Hi!

I managed to do what I needed:

It was simplier that I thought. I simply have to export the pose preset... and Carrara does the rest!
Anyway I managed to discover this thanks to everyone's tips! Thanks to all!

3DAGE

I'm glad you got a solution. :)

Dartanbeck

Bravo! 

Imago

@ Dartanbeck

You named some ERC tweener included in Fenric's plugin pack... I searched all the net and found nothing, just his plugin for ERC morphs. But no tweener in description!

Dartanbeck

It comes with his ERC for Carrara plugin. I'm not quite sure how it works or what it does - but I have it. I also have his Stack tweener, but have yet to try stacking tweeners with it. I think about it... but when I do, I don't feel the need to stack them. But I'm sure that one of these days I'm going to find that need. Perhaps in a science lab with stuff going on all around.

rk66

For ERC help look here, some tuts by fabaone  > http://www.sharecg.com/pf/full_uploads.php?pf_user_name=fabaone