My First Prop
rfrydryckstudio
Posts: 39
I found some excellent begining advice in a previous post and have since created my first prop in Blender; which is an archery bow. I am now looking for advice on how to finish it correctly.
1. When I test imported the Bow.obj into Carrara it came out big. A simple re-scale in Carrara fixed that. Should I re-scale in Blended or is it OK just to do it in Carrara?
2. Should I bone it in Blender or Carrara
3. Should I UV map it in Blender or do it in Carrara?
4. Should the bowstring be a separate object or should I attach it. Note I am going to animate the bow wiht a draw back motion.
5. I was going to make the string using a cylinder divided at the center since that is the only place it bends. Is the the best solution? Or is a cylinder too may polys for a tiny string? Maybe a really thin rectangle?
6. I was trying to keep the poly count low, so the bow looks blocky. Can I use smoothing in Blender? it looks good Carrara, but didn't want any surprises. See comparison image,
7. How do I make the bow attach to a hand like hair does to the head?
8. I have never morphed before. Any tips for morphing the bow so it when the string is pulled back the bow bends? Do I just move both separately? Is that in stages or just jump to the final morph and Daz will fill in the rest?
Thanks you!
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Comments
When you import an OBJ into Carrara,. there should be an option to "Disable auto scaling" (even on it's own objects,. carrara can easilly import it at the wrong size.
if autoscaling is enabled.. (make sure you fix this by using the "motion tab" and adjust the overall scaling back to 100% ,. don't try to edit or manually scale.
Don't change the object,. it's the correct size,. but imported wrongly.
If you add bones to this object,. it becomes a "Figure",. not a "Prop",. You would need to add bones to a model in Poser or DS, if you ere using the "figure" in those programs.
UV map this in whatever program you're most comfortable with using the UV tools,.
Either way will work,. as long as the two parts are "ONE Object.
make sure that the polygons of each part are defined as different shading domains,. so you can apply different textures to each part.
You need much more definition in your bow string,. than a single division,. try 10, or more,
You can use a cylinder or a rectangle to create the Bow String,. I'd probably go with a rectangle,.(less edges to work with,. with a line for the length and divisions,. and use sweep path to create the mesh,. then add one level of smoothing to turn the rectangle into a smooth cylindrical tube shape,.
Cylinders normally have a definition of 10 or more,. rectangle is only 4, so that keeps the polycount low,. and adding Smooth will make it look like a cylinder.
6, / If you add "smoothing" to a model,. then export it ,. it is subdivided and exported,. since it's the 3D Program which applies subdivision, not a model format,. you can add subdivision smoothing in DS.
Parenting,. You move the "prop" into the "Figure's" heirarchy, and drop it ont the "hand" . This "parented pose" can be saved as a Smart prop which will load in place and parented to the figure./ this is best done when the figure is in the default T-Pose.
You need to have "both" components of your object selected to create a "morph area" which effects the whole object,.
You would select the entire model,. then create a morph area,. then create a "target" and edit that,. then change the shape of your model,.to the "fully drawn" position.
then "validate" that target,. Once that's done,. you'll see your newly created Morph area, and your new morph, wirth it's slider control.
You can jump into "Animation mode" in the vertex modeller,. which allows you to "test" the slider control to see the morph in action.
then you can jump back to edit mode, and edit the target again if needed. or add more morph targets to that morph area.
Hope it helps
Why do I need to have more than a single division for my bow string? If you think about it the string is either straight up and down or in some form of a "V" position. Each side of the subdivision is a straight line to the end. Please correct me if I am wrong.
Depends how accurate you want it to be. If you're animating . . . after release there are all sorts of sinusoidal harmonics in the string. Plenty of footage on YouTube. No compulsion to model it, of course. Anyhow, you'd need a minimum of three segments to allow a straight section between the actor's fingers for nocking the arrow.
I recall animating a bow shot once, just using the drawn position and the arrow, then in the next frame the string is straight & no arrow. I think a sound effect made it reasonably convincing.
The harmonics seem like overkill, although it would be impressive.
Just imagine the slo-mo . . . ;)
@3DAGE Great tip on the import. The bow came in perfect size.
Now to add the string: i am not sure what this means:
"Either way will work,. as long as the two parts are "ONE Object. Make sure that the polygons of each part are defined as different shading domains,. so you can apply different textures to each part."
At this time the bow body is one solid object. Do I just make a string and join it to the bow making both one object? I don't understand the process of defining the different shading domains. Is that after I make my UV map? Never made a map before but I made the bow so it can be split in along a seem. I am a little confused on your terminology.
thanks
Shading domains are essentially materials (in DS they are called surfaces). In a bow there are two obvious domains: the stave and the string. To assign a shading domain, select the polys and use the dropdown in the Model tab in the middle-right panel. The Global tab allows you to edit the names and delete any unused domains.Shading domains can have their own UV map, as well as being combined into a unified map for the whole model.
HI :)
The bow and string,. need to be one single vertex model,. so that you can create the "morph target" shape.
If you import your Bow model, jump into Edit this in the Vertex modeller,. then create the String model , Move the string into position for the bow.
You now have two (separate) "poly meshes". which make one vertex model.
The two poly meshes don't need to be Physically connected (welded) but they both need to be editable at the same time to create morphs.
It's a good practice at this point,. to select each "poly mesh" and Name it,.(Right hand panel) also,. as Tango Alpha mentioned,. you can create or rename the shading domains. (the shading domain name will be the name you see for your "shader" (material) (in the surfaces panel in DS)
NOTE: When you create a model,. Carrara will create a default shading domain for that model,. this is normally called "Texture 0"
you can simply rename that default domain, for each poly mesh, rather than creating a new shading domain.
Now that you have shading domains,. you can UV map the parts
In UV mapping,,. there are some easy options,. for example cylindrical mapping can be applied to the string,. and Planar mapping could be applied to the Bow,. or you could select edges to be used as UV seams to define where the model should be split and unwrapped (flattened)
Once it's UV mapped,. you can select the entire model (bow and string) and create a Morph area,. then create morph targets,
One tip here,. Pose your figure, to help you see where the (fully drawn back) morph target needs to extend to.
the choice of more or less definition on the string is a creative decision, you're free to decide how defined you want to make it,. that's just the way I'd make it.
three edges should work,. but five gives you an area for the fingers, and seven to ten give you more scope for adding flex and reverberation as the tension is released and resonates.
You could also create a couple of morph for "being carried", or Worn over the shoulder, or over the torso,... it's up to you and how you want to do it.
As you go through the process,. you'll see how things are working out,. and you'll adjust the model or morphs or shading domains, or UV mapping, as you need to.
Although some of the terminology used in Carrara is different from DS,. I'm not a big DS user, the principles and techniques are the same in most 3D programs
Hope that makes sense :)
anything you're not clear about,. just ask
Edited to fix spelling and add,..
Out of curiosity,. I loaded up a Bow from the props folder from (i think) woodland warriors (or something like that)
just to have a look at the definition on the bow and string.
Great action there 3DAGE:) But please, draw the string to the chin and don't ever release without an arrow, you'll bust the bow and give yourself a nasty roasty on the arm:)
Thank's Roy, It's funny,. , since doing that, i've now looked at some archery stuff on YT,. . and quickly realised the errors of my ways :(
here's "possibly" a better figure stance,. and draw,. but, the arrow needs a lot of help,.
Big improvement - apologies, as a long-time archery coach I couldn't help myself:)
Smaller fletches will do the trick!
I wasn't happy with the arrow,. too jerky and messy.
smaller fletches did the trick :)
re worked the figure animation.
Well done - a Gold with your first shot! :)
Great information, but I am slightly overwhelmed with the terminology. I am a very good modeler and know Blender so much better I am just a little lost when it comes to Carrara and making a prop. Is there a tutorial anywhere that discusses a step by step creation process for making props with Carrara?
@ Roygee and 3DAGE great bow talk! Also I was only going to make the sting in two sections but the video convinced me I need more. Really nice examples and talk about how to hold one.
Right now I have my final bow finished in Blender and a separate string model. I saw that 3DAGE suggest I make the string in Carrara so I will do that but should I texture the bow first?. What I am looking for is the correct order to proceed:
Bow modeled and imported into Carrara *CHECK
So is this a good plan to proceed: Unwrap bow and texture it (inCarrara)? , add string and texture it (as 3DAGE suggested), add boning (in Carrara?), add draw back( morph target), Parent to a hand. Done?
Thanks for all the help.
Also I wanted to keep the modle light for animation. Is this a good mesh density?
Not really,. A "Prop" is simply a model,. any 3D object,. whether that's a City, a building, a room, .a chair,.a table, an ashtray,. or a cigar
so,. anything you can model,. is considered a "prop" UNTIL you add "bones" to that object,. then it changes from being a simple "prop" into being a "Figure" since it's mesh is now controlled by an armature of bones which can have different joint types and constraints to limit the bone movement.,.. so it's suddenly gone from a simple chair "prop", into being an animated dancing chair."figure"
So, "Props" don't have any bones,. "Figures" have bones,..... that's the basic distinction.
Normally any rigging of a figure would be done in the target application,. whether that's Poser or Daz Studio,. since both applications now have different bone weight mapping systems.
Both Props and Figures can use "morphs",. which are an "adjusted shape" of the same model,. Morphs need to have the same number of vertices and edges as the original model,.so you cannot add or remove vertices or edges,. it's simply a re-positioning of the models vertices and edges to form a new shape.
If you're happier using blender or max to create your models,. then you should export your "Base" Bow shape,. and then adjust your models vertices to create the "full draw" shape. and export that,. once you have both off those models exported,. as OBJ's,. you can open Poser or Daz Studio, load in the base model,. then load in the "morph" shape as "morph targets"
If you use Carrara, to model,. for use in another program,. such as Poser, DS, blender or max. you'll also need to export the base model and the adjusted "morph" shapes you've created.
If you're using any 3D program to create and use the model,. then the morphs don't need to be exported since those are contained within the programs file format, whether that's 3D-Max, Blender or Carrara, or any other 3D suite
If you think about the process here,. it becomes obvious that the "prop" model needs to be a single item,. in order to create the morph shapes since a morph is a re-positioning of the vertices of that model
That's why the BOW and STRING need to be combined (placed together) and exported as a single OBJ,. ..whether you do that in Blender of Max or Carrara is up to whatever's easiest for you.
In Carrara,. you can either mode both parts in the vertex modeller,. or,.. if you have two different "vertex objects" you can edit one of them,. select all polygons,. Edit / Copy then go back to the assembly room select the other model,. edit it in the vertex modeler, and EDIT/ paste,. to have both "poly-meshes" in the same vertex model.
As long as both meshes have different names, you can easily select and manipulate each mesh,. but more importantly,. you can adjust the shape of the complete model,. Bow and string " together, to form the "full Draw" shape, and create a morph in Carrara,. or export that shape as a Morph target for loading into another program,. such as Daz Studio or Poser, or Blender or 3D-Max.
The Bow and string don't need to be physically "welded" together,. they can be separate "poly meshes" with different names,. different UV mapping , and have different textures.
but they do need to be Placed in position , to enable you to create the morph shapes.
When you export as an OBJ,. it becomes a single file,. but both the Bow and the String will still be individually selectable in any 3D modeling program, since they are separate meshes, with different names.
perhaps you could clarify where you're getting stuck,. from what I remember from 3D max morphs are called morphs,. and shading domains are materials zones, (any selection of polygons which you want to texture or colour) I don;t use blender, but there should be some tutorials on creating morph shapes and exporting them from the blender community
Hope that make sense
The basic steps to create a morphing prop should be :
1./ Create your model
2./ UV map and texture it.
3./ Adjust that model to create different shapes (morphs).
Normally you would Load the model into the target application EG: Daz Studio,. and then add the Morph shapes using "morph loader"
the process is the same in Poser,. load the model,. add the morphs
edited to add
In Carrara,. or any other 3D suite with modeling tools, you can create a model and all of it's morph target shapes, then simply save that 3D scene file, to save all of that data,... no need for external file exports / imports, or dealing with scaling issues between the different applications.
they all have different "default" scene scale
which is why you would choose a 3D suite to create your own models , morphs, rigging, animation, textures / shaders, and render, all within that single application.
Most 3D applications have different Bone rigging systems,. shading or material systems,. the same applies to Lighting, Rendering, animating.
there are no "standards" for any of this stuff,. so the terms used in different applications may be different from application to application,. however, the basic processes of creating a model,. defining parts of that model as different material areas or "shading domains" ,. applying UVW mapping / Unwrapping, applying colours or materials,. editing the model to create Transforms or Morphs of that original shape,.
In programs which don't have any modelling abilities,. you need to model and export all of the different "morph target" shapes for your model,. and add those by importing as "morphs" into the target application.
more info to help explain.
Pic:
This is a cannibalized (composite image) to attempt to outline the process of creating a "morph" target shape in Carrara.
the image shows all the steps and menu options,. I hope it doesn't add to the confussions.
Hello again Andy, very good explanations. As long as I've used Carrara morphs never drew my attention. My loss. I do have a few questions if you don't mind. Pardon my intrusion. :)
Note: In your illustration should'nt there be at least 1-3 draw morphs? Drawing a bow IMO and experience can be quite slower than release.
Hi John :)
both parts need to be edited together as a single verex model,. since a morph is a transformation of the vertices of an object,. both "parts" of the model need to be together in the same "Object" ,.. so,. the Bow and String are modelled and morphed as a single "vertex model", which is made up of two unconnected poly-meshes.
the Bow I made was very simply modelled,. which makes it easier to adjust since there's not much geometry,. I just grabbed both ends of the bow and moved them to get the curve,. then moved the string into position and moved the middle back to create the final "Drawn back" morph target.
When you export as OBJ,. it'll save the names of the "shading domains", and those appear in DS or poser,. for the shaders or textures, it depends on what you're using.
If you're using Carrara shader functions such as procedural patterns or noise,. then you'd need to bake those to a texture map,. since DS or Poser doesn't have those shader functions. (or you could try to rebuild that procedural shader in the host application)
TIP: If you create a plane,. add your procedural shader to it,. and export as OBJ (with the option to ) "Create texture maps from procedural shaders"
to create a "basic" diffuse texture map. (just bin the Plane.OBJ and.MTL,. and keep the texture map. :)
Baker for Carrara gives you much more control and exports a range of maps from shaders, eg: Diffuse, Bump , Specular, Normal etc. which maks the process much simpler.
Once the shaders are baked to texture maps,. you'd load those into the shaders for DS or Poser.
I suppose,. the same reasons you would weld things together in the real world,. it simply joins two things into one,. by connecting vertices and edges,.
If you made a Chassis for a vehicle,. and you used a single tube section,. duplicated and repositioned to make the frame,.
Although that would work, and be low poly,. it could be awkward to work with and texture,. so welding those parts together makes sense.
In the Bow and string,. you could weld both parts together, then create a morph and select polys to create the shading domains,. but I think it's easier to have the two parts simply placed together in the modeler,. and be able to select each part and adjust it's mapping or shader seperately.
Actually you only need the one morph target shape for the main "Fully Drawn" position,.
I added a couple more to create the effect of reverb on the string,. those were animated with a couple of keys and the oscillate tweener.
When you create a Morph target,. you're setting a target shape for the original geometry,. and this creates a slider control,. which goes from (0) "no effect" to (100) "Full shape" ,.. and those morph values can be keyframed over time to animate the model,.
think of a Smile or Blink morph,. and how it can be adjusted, and animated to make the actor smile slowly or suddenly grin,. or Wake up slowly or flutter the eyelids
so,. a single morph, can be adjusted and keyframed, with different values and speeds, to create different effects.
How long it takes to draw back,. Hold,. and the speed of the release and springback of the bow,. (and the archer),. are all down to animating those mophs values to create keyframes at different points in the timeline,. and moving keyframes in the timeline to get the action, or effect, you need.
You could,.for example,. have a much slower animation of the release,. to create a slow-motion section, or follow the arrow leaving the bow.
Hope that makes sense :)
Andy. I should have asked how you got the very smooth look to to both ends of the bow. I was trying with dynamic extusion checked with no luck and drawing in the Z axis. Hmm... wonder what this "double sweep tool does"? Hah... the more I learn the more I need to learn. :)
I know that the bow was made quickly which explained it's simple look. Thanks for the pointers.
I understand the morph but had forgotten the power of keyframing. ;\
Just smoothing,. in the vertex modeller,. i think 2 levels on that bow,. so, it's using sub-division smoothing,. and that always makes stuff look super cool.
I normallly work with dynamic extrusion on a simple shape like a rectangle/square/circle, rough out the basic shape,. keeping things as low as i can,. then add a level of smoothing,. then continue extruding and modelling or collapse that smoothing to get a more detailed model and work at a higher poly level, probably adding smoothing to that again to soften everything.
Makes sense Andy. I'm presently working on a rock structure... can't decide if I like the rough or "smoothing" version... probably save both versions since it will depend on the scene I put it in. Thanks!
Do you mean an organic rock structure like a cliff or outcrop, or do you mean a structure built out of rock, like a house, temple or edifice?
If it is a cliff or outcrop, look in the current Carrara Challenge thread and you will see a scene I made to be similar to the Wisconsin Dells area (the natural areas and not the tourist crap.) All the cliffs and islands are vertex objects that I built. I UVed them the best I could, smoothed them, and then used the displacement painting tool in the vertex modeler to roughen them up. I smoothed them quite a bit for effective displacement painting.
Here's a view of one of my rock islands/pillars. I smoothed it less than I thought I guess. Only one level of smoothing.
Nothing like your first example which I possibly saw in Dartenbeck's Building Carrara Terrains Intro which is quite good. I just rendered 2 versions of an Arch walk type structure and will be posting to the current Challenge in a few minutes to get folks opinions in a few minutes. You can see my comments there.
In the vertex modeller,. there's a couple of things which can make it easier to create stones or rock formations,.
If you make a line shape,. like a circle,. then go to "Construct / Organic" carrara creates a 3D mesh,. which can be a simple way to make a stone or rock.
If you've modelled a rock formation like EvilProducer has done,. then the trick is to add a few levels of smooth (i normally use 4 levels, or max it out at 5 for this)
then click on the Displacement painting tool,. then select an alpha Brush and click a few times to add some displacement, ..I prefer to single click a few times with a Large brush,. rather than painting.
Displacement painting,. adds lots of detail to a subdivided mesh,. and that adds a lot of polygons ,. even if they're virtual,. it can slow things down while you're working.
The best way to work with subdivided and displaced geometry is to set the "Modelling Level" smoothing to 1 level,. and have the "Rendering level" smoothing set to high,.
Hope that makes sense
I tried the circle -"Contruct/Organic" with no luck. On a single "filled" poly it created a sphere. On an empty poly it did nothing. Using an array of unfilled circles and using "ruled surface" to create a mesh between those "Contruct/Organic" presented a requester "Can't perform the action: select polygones detached from any ruled surface to use this tool." I also tried the same after filling each end polys. The circle, dropdown from far left tool icon selections, I inserted near the center of the x/y plane in the directors camera window.
I've never, yet, messed with changing the smoothing/rendering levels but will give them a go.
I've only messed with the paint tool once. It didn't have any affect so I left and haven't been back yet. I've since read that there is another step I didn't do first in order for it to work but haven't tried it yet.
I believe to understand everything except the "Construct/Organic". I'll see what the manual has to say and see if I can find a video on it.
Circle was a bad choice of words,. ..my bad :(
draw a shape,. with the poly line tool o curve tool,. the shape of a rock, for example ,. just a rough irregular outline shape,.
the Construct / Organic function only works on an outine shape,. which is why you'll get an error with multiple circles,. my bad again,.
select that outline shape you've drawn and go to Construct/ Organic.
That will create a basic mesh,. it's not brilliant,. but it's a quick way to create a basic irregular shape which can be refined by extracting edges or extruding or moving and pulling parts around, using "soft selection".
If you enable Smooth, it will add one level of sub-division smoothing to that object,. and make the mesh look softer. you can select and "Crease edges" you want to be sharp.
Sub-division smoothing is great for modelling,. it allows you to work with lower detail meshes,. and you can turn it on and off while you model, to see the Base model,. or the smoothed surface. there's also an option to Convert that "Virtual" smoothing, into the "real" base mesh.
You need to have smooth enabled to use displacement painting in the vertex modeller,. each level of smoothing sub-divides each polygon into four, and to see the details in displacement painting, the smoothing levels need to be set quite high,. ..depending on the resolution of your base mesh.
Displacement painting alows you to "paint" surface details, such as scales, directly onto your model and changes the physical mesh to make it look like a much higher resolution model , while your base model can be much lower,. it uses sub-division smoothing in memory,. to render out the High detailed version of your lower resolution model.
Sub-division uses more system resources, and that can slow you down,. so you would set the smoothing levels high,. to paint the details,. then reduce the working smooth levels down to 1, ..to free up working memory.
No problem. I'm still stumped though. Either myself or Carrara is broke. :) I tried an Arch shape and the curve tool circle... see pic for arch. I tried it with 1 and also 3 copies of the "template" of the arch. No luck. Tried it with one circular shape on each plane. Still no luck. Subdivisions at none and at smooth. Perhaps you will see something in the pic that is not set.