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How to sculpt around eyes without messing up eyelash geometry

kickassetskickassets Posts: 63
edited April 2016 in Technical Help (nuts n bolts)
I typically sculpt and reshape the eyes of my genesis figure in mudbox or zbrush by hiding the eyelashes but when i unhide the lash geometry, theyre often no longer lined up perfectly, which is fine for me cause i would rely on zbrushe's fiber mesh for eyelashes. My concern would b nore so for selling morphs on the market, as im aware that users like to switch up diffrent eyelash transparency alpha textures on figures and morphs.
Post edited by kickassets on
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Comments

  • kickassetskickassets Posts: 63
    edited April 2016
    Or is the alpha eyelashes even that big a deal when i could use zbrushe's fibermesh for lashes?
    Post edited by kickassets on
  • mjc1016mjc1016 Posts: 15,001

    If you include the fibermesh lashes, you would probably be hailed a hero or something.  Yeah, you could substitute them.

  • kickassetskickassets Posts: 63
    Lol ok
  • Cris PalominoCris Palomino Posts: 11,355

    You can export the base figure with surface materials checkmarked.  I haven't checked Genesis 2, but on Genesis 3, the full set of both lashes are one object with surfaces.  You can hide them so you can see the lids.  I would leave the lids at the lash line alone if you are trying to shape around the eye, in terms of the eyelids.  You can use the mask brush to paint out the interior rows within the eye socket, plus the lids at the lash line.  If you're good with ZModeler, you could use masking tools within that since you're working at base res.  If you need to do the lid line, then you can use the move brush (BMV) with the lashes visible and the brush at a small size to affect only a small portion of the lid edge at a time.  Time consuming and you have to be careful.  You would want to make sure at all times that all of the eyeball is not affected by masking that area.  I recommend storing a morph target of the base before starting to restore the eyeballs en mouth interior.

    With Genesis 3, you also have an additional option as it has a face rig.  when you move the lids (which is composed of sections), the lashes are rigged to follow the movement of the lid.  This also, as I understand it, means you don't have to adjust the rigging, if you employ this method.  With anything else, you will and will likely have to do MCMs (Morph Corrective Morphs) for the eyes to properly close.

  • kickassetskickassets Posts: 63
    Hmmm. Thanks cris. I have some experimenting to do.
  • kickassetskickassets Posts: 63
    so i understand freezing or masking the area where the eyelashes would b to sculpt the eyelids but what about shaping the eye without making the eyes misalign with the eyelash geometry? In zbrush i use the move topoligical brush to respect the model's topology.
  • IsaacNewtonIsaacNewton Posts: 1,300

    Hi Chris,

    You wrote : "You can export the base figure with surface materials checkmarked."

    Could you please expand on this? How is this done? Is there an options box somewhere that I need to check?

  • Richard HaseltineRichard Haseltine Posts: 100,804
    IsaacNewton said:

    Hi Chris,

    You wrote : "You can export the base figure with surface materials checkmarked."

    Could you please expand on this? How is this done? Is there an options box somewhere that I need to check?

    Click More Options at the bottom of the OBJ Export dialogue. The surface options at the lower-right.

  • kickassetskickassets Posts: 63

    Good question IsaacNewton. Is there a way I could do the equalivant with the fbx export option? 

  • IsaacNewtonIsaacNewton Posts: 1,300
    edited April 2016

    I still don't see how to get body part surfaces on to g3f in Zbrush.

    If I export a figure from DS as an obj file, I get the export dialogue box as shown in the attached image. But which option gives body part surfaces?

    However, I would rather use GoZ to go between DS and ZB. When I click on "Send to Zbrush" the options dialogue box only gives options about mesh level and morphs, there is nothing about surfaces.

    Could you show in detail how you get body part surfaces in ZB when using GoZ to export G3f?

    Thanks

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    Post edited by IsaacNewton on
  • Richard HaseltineRichard Haseltine Posts: 100,804

    So you want the surface groups in ZBrush? You options in the OBJ export are already doing that - now you need to tell ZBrush to read them, go to  Preferences>Importexport>Import>Import Mat as Groups.

  • IsaacNewtonIsaacNewton Posts: 1,300

    Unfortunately, this does not work with GoZ.

    Even with an obj file import into ZB, I first have to load ZB then set the preferences then import the model. Note, I also have to select Polypaint and Colorize Then I get body parts as different colours. Still, how do I select only a specific colour to mask?

    Most importantly, how do I get the (selectable) coloured body zones to appear when exporting G3f from DS to ZB via GoZ?

  • Richard HaseltineRichard Haseltine Posts: 100,804

    GoZ from DS does not preserve groups or surfaces at all. You can use the Autogroup by UVs command in ZBrush to isolate the UV islands, but that will make more groups than a re strictly needed. If groups matter you need to go via OBJ.

  • IsaacNewtonIsaacNewton Posts: 1,300

    What I want to do is use GoZ but still be able to mask just the eyelashes. Doing so by using a brush is time consuming because it is not very accurate.

  • kickassetskickassets Posts: 63
    Hey issac, u could mask by polygroups after u auto group by uv in the polygroups tab if i understant ur question right. http://docs.pixologic.com/reference-guide/brush/auto-masking/
  • IsaacNewtonIsaacNewton Posts: 1,300

    Thanks Draw!

    But sheesh... Zbrush has got to have one of the worst UI systems in the known universe.

    So, masking of polygroups option is not under Masking (as any normal sentient being would expect) but under Brush!

    Now this is what the pixologic website says:

    Mask By Polygroups

    The Mask By Polygroups will apply a virtual masking based upon the polygroups of the tool. If you have the setting at 100 then the first selected polygroup will be the only part of the mesh that can be edited by selected brush. If you have the slider any lower then that will allow multiple polygroups to be edited on a given stroke but with less intensity then the first selected polygroup.

    Very nice... but HOW do you actually select the first polygroup... or any polygroup for that matter?

  • Richard HaseltineRichard Haseltine Posts: 100,804

    Tool>Polygroups>Auto Groups with UV is the command I referred to above.

  • kickassetskickassets Posts: 63
    edited April 2016
    From my understanding, to select polygroups, u would control or command while holding shift click on the group at least to hide it.
    Post edited by kickassets on
  • IsaacNewtonIsaacNewton Posts: 1,300

    I'm obviously being really dumb here, or we are talking different languages :)

    So, I have selected the Auto Groups with UV option. Then I hold shift left click and "control or command". Assuming you don't intend me to speak sternly to the computer and say "You will be selected!", what do you mean by control or command?

  • Richard HaseltineRichard Haseltine Posts: 100,804

    control (ctrl) is a modifier key on a Windows machine, command (Cmd) is the eqwuivalent on a Mac. you hold down the key while clicking on the model (ctrl/cmd plus clicks or drags do several things in Zbrush so you want to learn these features).

  • Cris PalominoCris Palomino Posts: 11,355

    The difference with uv autogroup, at least on Genesis 3, is there are 4 groups of lashes on each eye: 2 upper, 2 lower.  When you export with Surface names, as obj, you get one group for all eight meshes, so easier to mask at once.

    Hiding polygroups

    • Shift Ctrl left-click a polygroup keeps only the polygroup clicked on as visible
    • Shift Ctrl drag an empty area inverts the selection
    • Shift Ctrl left-click on another visible polygroup adds the polygroup to the hidden ones
    • Shift Ctrl left-click an empty area makes everything visible

    Masking used in conjunction with visible polygroups or mesh in general

    • Ctrl left-click in an empty area masks all visible geometry; when you unhide all, those that were hidden will not be masked
    • When you have areas that are masked and others that are not, Ctrl left-click in an emptry area will invert the selection
    • Ctrl drag an empty area will unmask all
    • Ctrl left click on masked mesh will blur the mask(s)
    • Ctrl alt left-click on masked mesh will sharpen the mask(s)

    These are just a few ways of making selections and masks.  There are tons more.  Macs have a Ctrl key.  So you can use Ctrl or Cmd.  They now also have an Alt/Option key.  

  • Cris PalominoCris Palomino Posts: 11,355

    Also, you can do a topological mask with the transpose tool.

    • Shift ctrl click the face polygroup so only it remains visible.
    • Set to move by pressing W
    • Click and drag on an eye loop near the eyelid openings on the face.  Remember this is loop driven, so you want to be on a loop that goes fully around the eye.  Drag toward the center of the opening.  It will mask the face and leave the lid opening area unmasked.  Practice this with starting at slightly different distances from the lid opening.  The mask will have a blurred edge.
    • Ctrl click in an emptry area if you want to invert the selection.
    • If you want the whole body masked and only the lid opening area unmasked, do this without hiding the other polygroups first.  If you're doing the eye area, I like to hide the lashes first as they seem to confuse the selection.
    • Q will drop the transpose tool.  ALWAYS check that you are back in Edit (T) before proceeding with sculpting on your mesh.

    http://prntscr.com/ayv3jy

    It can be a bit wonky till you get a feel for it.  And you can always refine the selection with the mask pen.

  • IsaacNewtonIsaacNewton Posts: 1,300

    Thanks, this gives me a lot to work on :)

  • ThorThor Posts: 43

    Pictures are worth thousands of words...

     

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  • ThorThor Posts: 43
    IsaacNewton said:

    Unfortunately, this does not work with GoZ.

    Even with an obj file import into ZB, I first have to load ZB then set the preferences then import the model. Note, I also have to select Polypaint and Colorize Then I get body parts as different colours. Still, how do I select only a specific colour to mask?

    Most importantly, how do I get the (selectable) coloured body zones to appear when exporting G3f from DS to ZB via GoZ?

    By the way, once you GoZ to Zbrush, you can most certainly apply textures... to the UV groups.
    However, since the UVs from DS are combined, you would need to duplicate your combined import, then UV group, then do a group split.
    Now you can just apply the corresponding textures to each subtool.
    Granted, you don't really want to send them back to DS like this, but this can be a handy way to reference textures without having to use polypaint.

     

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  • IsaacNewtonIsaacNewton Posts: 1,300

    Hi Thor, Thanks for the pics. As you say... a thousand words. The mist begins to clear :)

  • kickassetskickassets Posts: 63
    Im still at lost if i wanted to reshape the eye with the move brush and get the eyelash to follow the new shape of the eyes.
  • mjc1016mjc1016 Posts: 15,001
    draw_this2003_2f25381e87 said:
    Im still at lost if i wanted to reshape the eye with the move brush and get the eyelash to follow the new shape of the eyes.

    What I've done in Blender, since there are relatively few vertices on the lashes, is just manually adjust them, after the fact.  No, that's not really what you are after, but it seems easier than trying other methods...

  • kickassetskickassets Posts: 63
    Hmmm thanks mjc. I might try the equivalent
  • ThorThor Posts: 43
    mjc1016 said:
    draw_this2003_2f25381e87 said:
    Im still at lost if i wanted to reshape the eye with the move brush and get the eyelash to follow the new shape of the eyes.

    What I've done in Blender, since there are relatively few vertices on the lashes, is just manually adjust them, after the fact.  No, that's not really what you are after, but it seems easier than trying other methods...

    Yes... If you mask the lashes like in my pictures above, make your edits to the lid areas, you can then just invert the mask and tweak the eyelash postions with the move topological brush. Zoom way in, and use a small size brush.

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