A Customer's Colorful Curiosity
ZamuelNow
Posts: 753
Something of an open question to vendors and freebie makers. What exactly determines which clothing sets get alternate texture addons made for them? I know that some are duos/partnerships that make them by default but I'm curious about the others.
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Based on feedback from the texturers who've stuck around on my own things:
First, it has already sold lots of copies or it seems likely to, of course. The more copies an outfit sells, the more of a market there is for textures for it. It's possible for a texturer to guess wrong, just like it is for me to guess wrong about what mesh outfit customers will buy. ;D
Second, texturers don't want to draw any more than they have to. When they do have to, they want it to be quick and easy and with a minimum of 3d program painting (which some don't know how to do). Accordingly, an outfit is most likely to get extra textures if it fits some or all of these criteria:
-Rational seams. That is, the UV is seamed at natural seams in a garment, and those seams are part of the mesh, so the texturer doesn't have to try to texture seamlessly across a seam that should be invisible. If you can't tell where a shirt's side seam would be with no textures on, you didn't do this.
-Minimum of UV stretching. Stitches can be drawn right on with a photoshop/gimp brush and look right on the 3d model.
-UV Scaling is even. That is, the texturer doesn't have to make the base tiling texture much larger or smaller on a sleeve compared to the main dress or similar. Sometimes this means big blank template areas, but that can't be helped. Sometimes it's best to give a button or medallion a larger UV of its own, so more detail can be added.
-The UV is square. Square UVs support tiling shaders. Sometimes this can be waived on a belt or other really long, narrow item.
-There are lots of mat zones. If you have sleeves, they're separate. If you have buttons, they're separate, and collar/cuff buttons are separately zoned from front buttons. If you have lace areas, they're separate. This gives a texturer both many more options for different looks they can create more easily.
Some other things I look for:
Did the original vendor include 6 or more textures with the set? If so, the chances of selling another texture set for the item may be slim.
Does the item have enough flexibility to make changes to it? Can I make transmaps that will change the look of the item? If not, then I usually won't try to texture the item as a product or freebie as it then mostly just a matter of fills which pretty much anyone can do within Poser or DS in the Material Room (not sure what it is called in DS).
And this is likely just me...Does the vendor of the original item have a good rapport with his/her customers? If they have a haughty attitude or say things in forums that are mean-spirited, then I pass their products by when deciding what I want to texture.
Another thing to look at...how many and how are the material zones laid out.
If there are several and they are logically laid out, with 'room' to work, it will be easier to retexture. And for at freebie texturers, it's a lot easier to do an item that is not going to take forever to get decent results than one that has not enough or way too many materials. (not enough means lots of fiddling with maps to get things to line up).
Also some shaders have cut back on the need.. Fabricator and it's related items (Leather/Silk/etc) make it a snap to add a new look to an existing item.
This is actually quite a significant point. When I purchased Marieah’s shaders in a bulk lot, I promptly went through my wishlists and culled most of the texture sets—I think there are now fewer than half a dozen clothing texture sets in my wishlists across all the 3D stores combined. A texture set really needs to be something special, and not something that shaders can reproduce, to make it.
Am in the minority, that I would rather use textures than shaders, I find using material zones and shaders very limiting.
Something I used to try to experiment with, was creating a detailed texture strictly in DS, no Photoshop.
I'd use a simple tiling shader (like the Fabricator) on an item, then use Shader Baker to create a texture map.
Then I'd use the MLIE to add png elements.
It was generally very simple, and didn't always come out as nicely as I'd want, but it allowed for some interesting pieces.
I don't have the patience to learn how to texture well, and sometimes those beautiful details that are part of the textures end up stretching weirdly, so while I greatly appreciate the work that texture artists do, I'll default to shaders if I'm mix and matching, or if I don't have a texture that matches what I need.
I agree - I found it a bit alarming when a few items of clothing came out without textures and the explanation that 'they had been set up for shaders and fabricator'. I'm glad it didn't become a trend.
I remember when that was pretty standard here. You bought the item untextured, then paid extra for "mappaks."
Some items had no textures available (shader or otherwise). Like the poor old DAZ rat. Looked like a chocolate rat, because it had no textures.
I agree - I found it a bit alarming when a few items of clothing came out without textures and the explanation that 'they had been set up for shaders and fabricator'. I'm glad it didn't become a trend.
As always, it depends on what I wanna do. Sometimes Shaders are the way to go, sometimes normal textures.
Personally, I don't mind shader-ready items that come without a large amount of different textures. But, of course, the price must reflect this.
I'm a little half and half since I can see the value of both shaders and specially made textures. Unless someone has explicit artistic ability, shaders seem to give far more flexibility to the end user. Textures shine by doing things you can't do at all with shaders, namely specifically tailored trims and asymmetrical designs. I lack artistic ability but I like using shaders to match pre-existing textures since I tend to pull pieces from multiple products for a character's outfit.
A lot of the thought process behind the original question was from looking at the disparity of some sets seemingly guaranteed to get multiple third party textures while others didn't get any and in some cases only came with one default. While admittedly part of it was due to some of SickleYield's stuff (who happens to have well placed material zones so it's not a big issue), it seemed really odd for the various parts of the Genesis Battle Ready Bundle, released as part a big M5 push, to not have any. I wonder if part of my perception is skewed from looking at Renderosity's store which is more Poser focused and to my understanding has a much different setup for materials compared to Daz.
And yeah...finding a product with only one material zone for the entire piece is kinda annoying. Came with a ton of textures so it worked out somewhat well but still felt really limiting.
The Battle Ready Bundle is a male set. There are still a lot of artists who won't work with much in the way of male items. Further, it's a scantier set with what looks like a lot of mat zones, so it's very shader-friendly. Because the biggest weakness of shader texturing is large, unbroken stretches of fabric or metal, that's where you will logically find the most custom texturing (and indeed, note the texture packs for Alruna, Royal Elf and the Elven Dress).
Renderosity, on the other hand, seldom has that problem for two reasons.
1. Kit bashing with shaders seems to be much less prevalent among Poser users. People will BUY texture packs, and lots of them.
2. Artists at Rendo are more likely to create items that can be textured by one specific person (such as the item maker or their texturing partner), not by anyone in general. You'll see a lot of tex packs by the original artists of an item.
Even then, though, you'll still see umpteen third-party texture packs for an item that's been on the What's Hot list for a week, especially if it's titillating and for V4. The set of high heels with no heels on them comes to mind.
I was trying so hard to purge those heel-less high heels from memory. I mean, they'd have to be breaking all kinds of physics to work and... Know what? I'm gonna stop before I start to rant, especially since there's an entirely separate rant I've been trying to hold back.
Still, a fair bit of interesting info to take in.
Interesting thread. Myself, i rarely buy texture addons, mainly because i can do it myself. I mean, we are creating images and need an image editor like photoshop, PSP or GIMP for corrections/postwork, i would think making a texture would be second nature. Doesn't take much time or skill to apply an image over a UV template and adjust any settings in your app of choice.. Granted it takes a little more effort and skill to create the bump, specular, trans and/or normal maps but it's easier than figuring out how to set up a scene in DS or poser, LOL.
I feel the main reason you see so many texture addons in the marketplaces is it is the easiest way for anyone with limited skills wanting to make a buck in this niche market. Granted there are some vendors that are exceptional at what they can do with textures, makes me wonder what they could do if they ever learned to model also.
yeah, those heels with no heels made me scratch my head also. I have a hard time buying clothing sets that disobey the laws of physics, never mind those shoes, LOL.
Me too, sticking shaders on clothing tends to look a bit 'quick and dirty' if you ask me - you often lose the nice little details than an actual texture can give you. Depends on the item I suppose, but i personally dont like it for most things.
I disagree that it takes only limited skills to make a great texture set. I have bought items that came with completely unusable UV templates. If I didn't have programs and know how to use them to create my own templates, I would be stuck with only the pour and fill capabilities of Poser and DS (granted shaders, etc. allow some flexibility, but don't create transmaps).
The same skills that make someone good at texturing do not necessarily equate to them being good at modelling even if they had the interest in doing that kind of work.
I disagree that it takes only limited skills to make a great texture set. I have bought items that came with completely unusable UV templates. If I didn't have programs and know how to use them to create my own templates, I would be stuck with only the pour and fill capabilities of Poser and DS (granted shaders, etc. allow some flexibility, but don't create transmaps).
The same skills that make someone good at texturing do not necessarily equate to them being good at modelling even if they had the interest in doing that kind of work.
I think that they may have meant it gives them an entry path...most people start with creating textures or poses when they start to provide either freebies or paid for items. If you look in the market place there are probably more people texturing than creating models. Learning to model takes longer than learning to do basic texturing. I don't think they meant it in a bad way...; )
I did try to look at the remark in the same way that you have. However, the included "Granted there are some vendors that are exceptional at what they can do with textures . . ." would seem to negate that view.
I buy textures. I generally don't pay a lot for them, but I do buy them if I like them.
There's more to making a texture than Photoshop skills. It takes a certain eye. Sure, we're all artists, but that doesn't mean we're all interested in texturing clothing. I'll do if I have to, but I'd rather spend my time in other ways.
I sometimes buy poses, too, even though I can make my own. I'm willing to pay for something that will speed up my workflow.