Let's TALK ABOUT Superheroes/superheroines

ArchWorks

here is an interesting read for you guys lol

http://cheesebadger.xanga.com/650384722/why-the-flash-is-the-most-overpowered-superhero-ever/

SickleYield

1. I've always had a soft spot for the 90's X-men cartoon. This is the only point in history where a superhero team's tank role has been filled by a female, let alone one with a Southern accent and a giant perm. Not only that, but for a while Storm was team leader - even at one point without her powers. These two badasses more than made up for rescue object, love triangle attractant and general twit-biscuit Jean Gray for me.

2. Anything recent. At the point when I realized all the female bodies looked the same adjusted for height (excepting Power Girl, who exists, unfortunately) and all the female characters were the kind of "tough" that wears a slutty outfit and punches guys for ogling it, that was when I quit buying comics.

3. When I still read comics I was indifferent to most of these things if the character was well written, and even with the most compelling characters in general (like Batman, whom everyone likes) that varies widely by writer.

4. Flight, telekinesis, healing factor, and permanent hairlessness below the neck (you can't tell me that's not a superpower when 90% of them have it).

5. Yep, once I dreamt I was Jubilee. It was terrible, because I was still a total load. :D

K T Ong

Arch_Clan said:

here is an interesting read for you guys lol

http://cheesebadger.xanga.com/650384722/why-the-flash-is-the-most-overpowered-superhero-ever/

The Flash the most powerful? Duhhhh... :)

SickleYield said:

2. Anything recent. At the point when I realized all the female bodies looked the same adjusted for height (excepting Power Girl, who exists, unfortunately) and all the female characters were the kind of "tough" that wears a slutty outfit and punches guys for ogling it, that was when I quit buying comics.

Count me in. I can't stand bitchy 'macho' women either. As I opined earlier in this thread, gals should always have a touch of femininity in them -- which DOESN'T equate with weakness.

4. Flight, telekinesis, healing factor, and permanent hairlessness below the neck (you can't tell me that's not a superpower when 90% of them have it).

Hey, I've always wanted some hair on my pectorals!! %-P

Strange, isn't it. Those who have it don't want it, while those who don't have it want it.

K T Ong

I think if I ever become a superhero I'll wear the costume illustrated below (plus boots and maybe some headgear), precisely just to attract the attention of Knight22179, who I understand is into excessive cleavage and bare thighz on guyz. %-P

RAMWolff

HAHAHA... Only if there is ALLOT of hair on the body .... I like em wooly! :P

K T Ong

Aren't you woolly, too? Considering your nick (RAMWolff)? :-)

You do have some woolly heroes around, by the way. Such as Aquaman -- mmmmmm.

RAMWolff

Yea, never understood why Aquaman would be furry. Made no sense to me!

Knight22179

K Tong: :P

RAMWolff: Me neither. Or having that DUMB Harpoon for a hand. But that's Peter David for you. He loves skrewing up Super-Heroes.

Kattey

K T Ong said:

1. Which (or what sort of) superheroes/superheroines appeal the most to you, and why?
My favorite is Deadpool, because 1) his concept of forth-wall-breaking-character was almost unique in superhero community when he was created 2) he wears mask not because he tries to hide his identity but because there is a very good reason to 3) he is funny 4) he is a badass despite being low-powered (his supernatural regeneration is his only superpower and is only here to conveniently provide his survival; he fights with regular weapons and not super-powered in that respect, just highly trained; he isn't super-tough, isn't super-strong and isn't super-agile) 5) he has some very deep character arcs (of course, his character and backstory depends on the writer (as he admitted himself) but he is trying occasionally to do Right Thing despite being crazy and failing almost every time)
here is a series of his great moments from before he got four series and was mainly forgotten C-list anti-hero, if anybody is curious
Everybody from "Agent-X" miniseries and "Freak's Squeele" (except Saint-Ange's director)
Almost everybody from JLA: Unlimited, including all main cast because it wasn't about having coolest powers
Main cast of Nextwave
Hellboy and main cast of it
Probably I like my heroes well-meaning, well-developed, a bit crazy/absurd, at least partially outcasts/underdogs and at least with some awareness of the world they live in
"Sandman", "Lucifer" and "Transmetropolitan" aren't about super-heroes precisely, but among my favorite comics as well

2. Which (or what sort of) superheroes/superheroines turn you off, and why?
Shallow, self-righteous (fanatical especially) with black-white no-compromise morality-that-often-depends-on-dress-choices, arrogant and/or emotionally or story-convoluted; too patriotic; those who never evolve or always "reset" back to basics all the time and never leave any consequences on the world around; those who have huge resources or genius intellect but can't cure the cancer
Heroines that exist just to provide big boobs, bared midriffs, high-heels and cleavage; damsels in distress, most distressing when well-developed character become one
"Author darlings" of any kind or those who are there to spew author's views on the reader
Exclusively heroes with good looks, exclusively villains with bad looks

3. What sort of things do you look for in a superhero/ine? Is appearance everything to you, or how 'badass' s/he is (as in how good s/he is against his/her foes), or the kind of person s/he is (morally impeccable like Superman, or bad-tempered like the Hulk, or arrogant like Namor etc), or the concept of the superhero/ine (whether s/he's a mutant, magic-based, uses all sorts of futuristic gadgets, is a god/dess etc), or a bit of all these?

Origin is almost never important; I'm looking foremost for a good story and a good characterization, doesn't matter if the character is morally impeccable if he/she has some depth to it; even "flawed" character like Punisher can be terribly written
I prefer low-powered heroes or "badass normals" to high-powered ones, 'cause I'm finding that having noticeable limitations or limited powers usually makes a better story and a less irrational setting where heroes battle Horror from Beyond on a regular because there is nothing else that can be a challenge for them (but street crime somehow still exist)

4. If YOU could have FOUR superpowers, what would they be?

All-healing (preferably mass version), Flight, Talk/Write/Understand _all_ languages (even dead ones, slang or computer ones with all their nuances), Ability to solve environmental problems on planet-wide scale, like figuring out how to build effective full waste recycling, to build better renewable energy sources, grow forests, renew soils, and to bring back dead species of animals and plants or prevent existing species from extinction

5. Have you ever dreamt of superheroes/superheroines in your sleep?
Maybe once or twice. I remember following a guy who had a power to stop tsunami and another one who was able to jump between two parallel worlds

Kattey

Sorry, double post

K T Ong

To RAMWolff and Knight:

It all comes down to commercialism. Aquaman was given some male assets so that twisted perverts like me could ogle him to their hearts' content and sales of his comic would go up. %-P

Peter David wasn't entirely responsible for Aquaman's coat of fur, either, I believe; Jurgens was the artist who did Aquaman much of the time that Peter David was writing. So blame Jurgens, too!

Knight22179 said:

K Tong: :P

I'll take that as a nod of approval. ;-)

K T Ong

To Kattey:

Hey, I like heroes/heroines who are funny or a bit crazy too, or whose stories feature such elements. Storylines which are overly serious or grim do turn me off -- life's hard enough without reading or viewing material of that nature to make it even more sour than it already is.

And black-white no-compromise morality-that-often-depends-on-dress-choices is an even greater turn-off for me, too, though more with respect to the story/setting than the individual hero/ine in my case. Stories featuring this betray an utter lack of imagination.

lface8

K T Ong said:

To Kattey:

Hey, I like heroes/heroines who are funny or a bit crazy too, or whose stories feature such elements. Storylines which are overly serious or grim do turn me off -- life's hard enough without reading or viewing material of that nature to make it even more sour than it already is.

And black-white no-compromise morality-that-often-depends-on-dress-choices is an even greater turn-off for me, too, though more with respect to the story/setting than the individual hero/ine in my case. Stories featuring this betray an utter lack of imagination.

I'm kind of the opposite in that aspect. I love a good serious/grim story. I think it adds layers of depth to characters and gives them another obstacle to overcome. If a hero always wins, then things can become boring really quickly. When there's something at stake and you can't predict what's going to happen next, is what I like.

K T Ong

I think it's perfectly possible to have a funny and light-hearted superhero tale in which the heroes/heroines sometimes lose. Consider the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles (the early cartoon series). They often stumble and make mistakes, but the whole show is fun and funny, not serious and grim.

But I guess we just happen to have different tastes. To each his/her own. :)

lface8

K T Ong said:

I think it's perfectly possible to have a funny and light-hearted superhero tale in which the heroes/heroines sometimes lose. Consider the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles (the early cartoon series). They often stumble and make mistakes, but the whole show is fun and funny, not serious and grim.

But I guess we just happen to have different tastes. To each his/her own. :)

While true, the original comic the show was based off of was pretty grim and had a bit of a noir feel to it.

shadowhawk1

K T Ong said:

Considering that there's a long thread here on rendering superheroes, I thought I might start another one in which we just talk about them for the fun of it. Let's just discuss the following:

1. Which (or what sort of) superheroes/superheroines appeal the most to you, and why?

2. Which (or what sort of) superheroes/superheroines turn you off, and why?

3. What sort of things do you look for in a superhero/ine? Is appearance everything to you, or how 'badass' s/he is (as in how good s/he is against his/her foes), or the kind of person s/he is (morally impeccable like Superman, or bad-tempered like the Hulk, or arrogant like Namor etc), or the concept of the superhero/ine (whether s/he's a mutant, magic-based, uses all sorts of futuristic gadgets, is a god/dess etc), or a bit of all these?

4. If YOU could have FOUR superpowers, what would they be?

5. Have you ever dreamt of superheroes/superheroines in your sleep?

Please don't feel that you have to answer all the questions above (and feel free to bring in your own discussion topics as long as they're about those guys and gals in comic books running/swimming/flying around in spandex :) ). I have my own answers, but for now how about sharing yours first?

1. I would have to say what appeals most to me about a superhero/heroine is their conviction. do they have an unwavering belief that what they are doing is right? I am not saying anything about having doubts about HOW to do but that WHAT they are doing is right and just. Frank Castle and Batman are examples of what I am saying

Knight22179 said:

2. What really turns me off is an excessive amount of cleavage and bare legs on women! To me, that's an immediate turn off. Sorry, but I don't like Super-Heroines looking like hookers when their costumes are nothing more than eye candy. Others love it, but I hate it. I also hate high heels. Why on EARTH would any super-hero wear high heels, especially if they have superspeed?! Makes ZERO sense to me! Do you know how hard it is to run in those things?! She'd be getting sprained ankles all the time! Oh, and I HATE the color combination of green and red together. That's another turn off for me. Looks soooooooooo UGLY!

BUT I LOVE THE EYE CANDY!! Seriously you do have a point, I love the look but as far as functionality I am sure that running or fighting in high heels would be a HUGE pain in the backside! You are right on all the exposed skin to an extent as well, but if you could wear something that would provide a distraction to the male libido while you are beating him to a pulp, it sounds like a check in the plus column to me. My biggest thing right now is the whole Boob window for Power Girl. I love her old costume and really like the direction of her new one, bring back the boob window and it would be perfect! I love the flat heels that are integrated into the suit!

3. I kind of touched upon this already. I look for a little bit of everything. I like heroes who have a good moral ground and I usually hate arrogant show offs like DC's Guy Gardner or arrogant pricks like Monet St. Croix.
I don't know a little bit of ego can be cool Love Downy's portrayal of Tony Stark in the Iron Man and Avengers movies. It is just about the perfect amount of attitude and ego to be a real winning combo.

4. My four powers would be Intangibility, the ability to project a bubble that once someone left it they would forget that they interacted or even saw me, The ability to mimic anyone or anything perfectly as long as it was a living, intelligent being. I guess that excludes mimicing a politician huh?

5. I dream of being chased by a big busted Superheroine with a boob window leotard, bare legged, thigh high boots with high heels and opera gloves...Does that count?

Knight22179

K T Ong said:

To RAMWolff and Knight:

It all comes down to commercialism. Aquaman was given some male assets so that twisted perverts like me could ogle him to their hearts' content and sales of his comic would go up. %-P

Peter David wasn't entirely responsible for Aquaman's coat of fur, either, I believe; Jurgens was the artist who did Aquaman much of the time that Peter David was writing. So blame Jurgens, too!

I don't blame the artist, they are told what to do and really don't have nearly as much control over the the comics as the writers. Unless I'm wrong. The writers, in large part, control what happens. And Aquaman suffered because of it. The title got cancelled (temperarily) and Peter David went to another book (only to ruin that one too). Aquaman's title was saved by a new writer that came on board and undid most of what Peter David had done.

K Tong: :P

I'll take that as a nod of approval. ;-)

It wasn't. *LOL* It was just sticking my tongue out at you. ;)

K T Ong

shadowhawk1 said:

BUT I LOVE THE EYE CANDY!! Seriously you do have a point, I love the look but as far as functionality I am sure that running or fighting in high heels would be a HUGE pain in the backside! You are right on all the exposed skin to an extent as well, but if you could wear something that would provide a distraction to the male libido while you are beating him to a pulp, it sounds like a check in the plus column to me. My biggest thing right now is the whole Boob window for Power Girl. I love her old costume and really like the direction of her new one, bring back the boob window and it would be perfect! I love the flat heels that are integrated into the suit!

Shadowhawk, what do you think of guys wearing something that would provide a distraction to the female libido? :)

While true, the original comic the show was based off of was pretty grim and had a bit of a noir feel to it.

I know. That's why I specified the (early) cartoon series!

Knight22179

Knight22179 said:

3. I kind of touched upon this already. I look for a little bit of everything. I like heroes who have a good moral ground and I usually hate arrogant show offs like DC's Guy Gardner or arrogant pricks like Monet St. Croix.

I don't know a little bit of ego can be cool Love Downy's portrayal of Tony Stark in the Iron Man and Avengers movies. It is just about the perfect amount of attitude and ego to be a real winning combo

If ego is done right, then yes I agree with you. Tony's ego is done right. Even Hal has an ego and it's usually done right. But with certain characters, it's not done right at all. Almost never with Guy Gardner. His arrogance and ego is way overdone, almost like the writers are always trying too hard. Sure, he has his moments where I actually do like the guy, but most of the time he's just an arrogant prick who I hate and characters similar to him.

K T Ong

Knight22179 said:

I don't blame the artist, they are told what to do and really don't have nearly as much control over the the comics as the writers. Unless I'm wrong. The writers, in large part, control what happens. And Aquaman suffered because of it.

Perhaps not so much 'suffered' as 'was given a new interpretation'. Depends on whether one likes or hates it, I guess. (I happened to like it. Always like the guys woolly. :) )

shadowhawk1

K T Ong said:

shadowhawk1 said:

BUT I LOVE THE EYE CANDY!! Seriously you do have a point, I love the look but as far as functionality I am sure that running or fighting in high heels would be a HUGE pain in the backside! You are right on all the exposed skin to an extent as well, but if you could wear something that would provide a distraction to the male libido while you are beating him to a pulp, it sounds like a check in the plus column to me. My biggest thing right now is the whole Boob window for Power Girl. I love her old costume and really like the direction of her new one, bring back the boob window and it would be perfect! I love the flat heels that are integrated into the suit!

Shadowhawk, what do you think of guys wearing something that would provide a distraction to the female libido? :)

While true, the original comic the show was based off of was pretty grim and had a bit of a noir feel to it.

I know. That's why I specified the (early) cartoon series!

I knew I was going to get asked that one! :facepalm: As long as I didn't have to wear it I think it would be fair, but how many how many female supervillians are out there that would require that kind of distraction? Not big on the whole speedo thing but hey everyone has their own sense of fashion right? You aren't going to ask me to wear the boob window leotard and high heels next are you? I would have to draw the line at that! I hear thongs are seriously uncomfortable! :cheezygrin:

shadowhawk1

Knight22179 said:

Knight22179 said:

3. I kind of touched upon this already. I look for a little bit of everything. I like heroes who have a good moral ground and I usually hate arrogant show offs like DC's Guy Gardner or arrogant pricks like Monet St. Croix.

I don't know a little bit of ego can be cool Love Downy's portrayal of Tony Stark in the Iron Man and Avengers movies. It is just about the perfect amount of attitude and ego to be a real winning combo

If ego is done right, then yes I agree with you. Tony's ego is done right. Even Hal has an ego and it's usually done right. But with certain characters, it's not done right at all. Almost never with Guy Gardner. His arrogance and ego is way overdone, almost like the writers are always trying too hard. Sure, he has his moments where I actually do like the guy, but most of the time he's just an arrogant prick who I hate and characters similar to him.

I completely agree with you on guy Gardner he almost ruined the whole Green Lantern corps for me. If they let him in they had to be seriously desperate!

K T Ong

shadowhawk1 said:

You aren't going to ask me to wear the boob window leotard and high heels next are you?

Suppose I asked you to wear this instead? :cheesiergrin:

Knight22179

shadowhawk1 said:

Knight22179 said:

Knight22179 said:

3. I kind of touched upon this already. I look for a little bit of everything. I like heroes who have a good moral ground and I usually hate arrogant show offs like DC's Guy Gardner or arrogant pricks like Monet St. Croix.

I don't know a little bit of ego can be cool Love Downy's portrayal of Tony Stark in the Iron Man and Avengers movies. It is just about the perfect amount of attitude and ego to be a real winning combo

If ego is done right, then yes I agree with you. Tony's ego is done right. Even Hal has an ego and it's usually done right. But with certain characters, it's not done right at all. Almost never with Guy Gardner. His arrogance and ego is way overdone, almost like the writers are always trying too hard. Sure, he has his moments where I actually do like the guy, but most of the time he's just an arrogant prick who I hate and characters similar to him.

I completely agree with you on guy Gardner he almost ruined the whole Green Lantern corps for me. If they let him in they had to be seriously desperate!

They did let him in. Not once, but twice! So, yeah. They were desperate! *LOL*

shadowhawk1

K T Ong said:

shadowhawk1 said:

You aren't going to ask me to wear the boob window leotard and high heels next are you?

Suppose I asked you to wear this instead? :cheesiergrin:

ROTFLMAO That would be even worse! That would be an epic fail on the scale of the Green Lantern Corps letting Guy in for a third time!

shadowhawk1

Knight22179 said:

shadowhawk1 said:

Knight22179 said:

Knight22179 said:

3. I kind of touched upon this already. I look for a little bit of everything. I like heroes who have a good moral ground and I usually hate arrogant show offs like DC's Guy Gardner or arrogant pricks like Monet St. Croix.

I don't know a little bit of ego can be cool Love Downy's portrayal of Tony Stark in the Iron Man and Avengers movies. It is just about the perfect amount of attitude and ego to be a real winning combo

If ego is done right, then yes I agree with you. Tony's ego is done right. Even Hal has an ego and it's usually done right. But with certain characters, it's not done right at all. Almost never with Guy Gardner. His arrogance and ego is way overdone, almost like the writers are always trying too hard. Sure, he has his moments where I actually do like the guy, but most of the time he's just an arrogant prick who I hate and characters similar to him.

I completely agree with you on guy Gardner he almost ruined the whole Green Lantern corps for me. If they let him in they had to be seriously desperate!

They did let him in. Not once, but twice! So, yeah. They were desperate! *LOL*

I stand corrected! I am with you on disbanding the all male green lanterns from earth club too. Saw you mention that on a different thread and they should have a couple of human female Green Lanterns.

Knight22179

shadowhawk1 said:

Knight22179 said:

shadowhawk1 said:

Knight22179 said:

Knight22179 said:

3. I kind of touched upon this already. I look for a little bit of everything. I like heroes who have a good moral ground and I usually hate arrogant show offs like DC's Guy Gardner or arrogant pricks like Monet St. Croix.

I don't know a little bit of ego can be cool Love Downy's portrayal of Tony Stark in the Iron Man and Avengers movies. It is just about the perfect amount of attitude and ego to be a real winning combo

If ego is done right, then yes I agree with you. Tony's ego is done right. Even Hal has an ego and it's usually done right. But with certain characters, it's not done right at all. Almost never with Guy Gardner. His arrogance and ego is way overdone, almost like the writers are always trying too hard. Sure, he has his moments where I actually do like the guy, but most of the time he's just an arrogant prick who I hate and characters similar to him.

I completely agree with you on guy Gardner he almost ruined the whole Green Lantern corps for me. If they let him in they had to be seriously desperate!

They did let him in. Not once, but twice! So, yeah. They were desperate! *LOL*

I stand corrected! I am with you on disbanding the all male green lanterns from earth club too. Saw you mention that on a different thread and they should have a couple of human female Green Lanterns.

ALL male GL's?! Noooooo! Keep Hal, but I'm fine with getting rid of the rest and give Hal a back-up GL that's a human women. :coolsmile:

shadowhawk1

Knight22179 said:

They did let him in. Not once, but twice! So, yeah. They were desperate! *LOL*

I stand corrected! I am with you on disbanding the all male green lanterns from earth club too. Saw you mention that on a different thread and they should have a couple of human female Green Lanterns.

ALL male GL's?! Noooooo! Keep Hal, but I'm fine with getting rid of the rest and give Hal a back-up GL that's a human women. :coolsmile:

Couldn't agree more! Keep Hal and give him a strong female Co-Lantern. Not a sidekick but an equal that is capable of going toe to toe with him if he goes off the deep end again.

K T Ong

To Shadowhawk:

Mind you, there have been guys dressed rather similarly to that! (Referring to the DZFashion suit.)

Which would surely be fairer. If we're to dress up the gals in such deliciously provocative styles, why not the guys, too?

And here I agree with Knight, it's just sexist that there wasn't a single female GL!

Timbales

Bare legs and the stapless top on Wonder Woman never bothered me, unless it was drawn as a thong and the top was really low cut. Terry Dodson drew her fairly well covered and it looked good. I liked Power Girl's costume, too, especially how it was drawn by Amanda Conner.

I don't like it when a female hero who isn't invulnerable is drawn showing a lot of skin, though. Huntress in hotpants and a belly shirt doesn't make sense. She should be wearing lightweight, flexible body armor.