Selecting G3f teeth/jaws and tongue only

IsaacNewton

Josh Darling made a nice video expaining how to remove certain vertices from a morph influence. I have a character which somehow has had the teeth jaws and tongue screwed up.

"No problem!" thinks I, "I'll just select the teeth, jaws and tongue and then remove those from the character morph."

Unfortunately, it's not so simple as that (as you may have guessed). First you have to be in vertex selection mode to select the verts you want removed from the influence of the morph. Easy enough.

Second you have to then select the verts (teeth etc in this case). Ah... How can I ensure all and only the teeth, jaw and tongue verts are selected when in Vertex Selection Mode?

I tried making the other body parts invisible, but that doesn't work, the selection tool somehow sees only the skin (which is invisible) and not the teeth etc.

I did wonder about selecting all the verts except the teeth/jaws/tongue and then removing the figure morph from them, leaving only those parts morphed. I could then use this morph as a negative morph to remove the distortion in the teeth/jaws/tongue. However, how can I select ALL verts except those I don't want? The internal parts of the eyes for example, would be impossible using an external brush. I know you can use a marquee to select verts but it also only seems to work on the external parts.

So Josh, or anyone else. How can I select the verts of the teeth, jaws and tongue only so i can remove them from my figure morph?

Redz

In vertex mode right click on the viewing pane, hover over geometry selection - select by - surfaces. Then you can choose teeth and repeat to select the mouth. 

ETA you might find it helpful to turn off the head visibility in the scene panel, so you can see your vertices selected. 

IsaacNewton

Hi Redz,

Yes, I tried that but you have to be in vertex selection mode to proceed to the next step which is to remove the selected verts from the morph, however when I switch to Vertex selection mode the parts I just selected are then unselected.

So, in Tools select geometry Editor, then activate Tool Settings. From there select Vertex Selection and then after you select some verts you can right click over the figure (or in the view window) and get a popup menu with the choice to do Morph Editing and there you can remove the selected verts from the influence of the morph.

Unfortunately in Vertex Selection Mode you cannot select surfaces like the teeth (as far as i can see). You must be in Vertex Selection Mode to get access to the Morph Editing option. Catch 22 as far as i can see.

I think DAZ3d need to open up the selection options here. Or if it is possible to select the verts another way AND have access to Morph Editing then.... make it clearer!

If anyone knows how to remove the effects of a morph from the teeth/jaws and tongue only, I would be happy to know.

Richard Haseltine

In Polygon mode seelct the surfaces

Right-click in the viewport, Geometry Selection>Convert Selection>Convert to Vertex Selection.

Redz

That's odd. When I select geometry editor and choose vertex selection (third icon on the right at the top) I can right click to select surfaces and I can perform the morph editing option. I'm using the latest full release version of Daz Studio. I can't explain why you can't seem to do that. Sorry. 

IsaacNewton

Thanks Richard, I didn't see that option for changing from polygons to verts. However, I am still left with a problem:

My figure now has teeth that are unmorphed, but along the process of making my figure morphs I have accidentally introduced a slight shortening of the figure (probably due to not being able to use GoZ).

The result is that when the distortion is removed from the teeth so is the height change and now the teeth are around the eyes (see images).

Unfortunately, moving the jaws/teeth in the Y direction to get them back into the right place introduces new problems illustrated in the attached images. Essentially, moving the lower jaw also changes the face shape. Moving the lower teeth only results in distortion of the internal lower jaw. Moving the upper jaw results in distortion of the jaw (though it would not be seen).

 

So, the next question is ; How can I move the upper and lower jaws and teeth without distorting them or the face?

IsaacNewton

 More pics

 

IsaacNewton

More pics

 

Richard Haseltine

You probably need to make a new morph to move the teeth down 9and apply any scaling needed) without changing theuir shape. Once that is done you can combine it with the shaping morph you were trying to make. It is, however, possible that the scaling is because there was scaling on the figure when you sent the mesha cross to ZBrush - if you have the original shape, as OBJ or as a saved ZBrush file, you could try reimporting it with Reverse Deformations checked (and then probably tidy the teeth up again).

IsaacNewton

It seems that removing the morph from all verts except the teeth etc and then making a reverse (-100%) of that is the best way. Adding the reversed teeth morph to the original morph does remove most of the  problem, but there are still apparently some scaling issues.

Maybe it will be quicker to start from scratch now that I have GoZ working again :(

Richard Haseltine

You really want to make sure there is no scaling (or translation - I think one of the teens has y-translation on the hip) on the figure before sending it to ZBrush.

IsaacNewton

I agree, scaling is a major obstacle to morphing. On the whole GoZ seems to cope well with most scaling, but you only find out for sure if there are distortion issues when you start posing the figure.

Going to Zbrush via GoZ and sending the morph back to DS as an obj file is even more sensitive as the sacle is different and I don't see anywhere the exact ratio (if there is a fixed ratio) between a Zbrush object and a DS object. I have found that approx 10000% from Zbrush to DS is close, but since it is not exact, the deformations build up and are a problem to remove.

In the end, I agree, it is best to avoid scaling or translation when morphing. However, sometimes it is necessary such as when your finished morph then has scaling applied to various parts and this results in ripples or deformations of the mesh which need to be smoothed out. You can't see these problems until the scaling is applied, but if you smooth the scaled object/figure in Zbrush for example, you risk the morph causing problems to the joints etc when posing.

This could be solved in an instant if DAZ3d would only put Smoothing and simple Deformation brushes into DS. This has been asked for by many people for a very long time. Poser and other programs (even free ones like Blender) have this technology built in, and have done for a very long time. I honestly don't see why DAZ3d don't just get on and add it into DS. It would be a huge improvement to the program, and not just for morphers but also to solve poke through and mesh distortion in clothing that the Smoothing Modifiers can't solve (or sometimes are guilty of causing!)

Richard Haseltine

Using 1 unit = 1m seems to work for importing an OBJ sentt o ZBrush via GoZ, there shouldn't be any distortion from that (there may be distortion if you divided the emsh in ZBrush with SMTH on).