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So the complaints about animation are mostly about Daz Studio faults and not really about Genesis correct? I agree Daz Studio is terrible for animation. I wouldn't use it for that myself.
Doesn't sound like much of a Genesis issue, more of a DS issue. For example exporting, rigging and animation a Genesis figure in a better animation package and things would go better.
I personally don't like aniblocks either. I don't like the lack of control for animation in DS, but I'm ok with it simply because I use DS for it's strengths and use other tools for other things. DS is great for setting up a character!
I'd be glad to share my experience with you. remember you did ask.
I have been trying to work with daz4 and genesis for about 9 months.
when making animation have the ability to use and have special effects like smoke and waves and fire are very helpful
Unfortunately there are no tools that work in daz4 for those effect accept particle fx which i already own for daz3 & poser so I'm not buying another copy of it. and i have yet to be able to get the Nerds VFX tools to work they way they do in Daz3 $ poser though age of Armour effects cameras are very helpful.
Sometimes with certain morph characters set. you load into genesis using the v4 genesis morphs and then a v4 morph such as Godins VH Bernadette and ready your scene for animation .. when you ad a aniblock to the character on the timeline the face and body morph reverts back to the default Genesis male shape, that is very frustrating. because the ani block was designed for the .DAZ file format not DUF Genesis mesh
when you ad a aniblock to genesis the feet curl up specially with the fighting aniblocks., though I've learn how to fix that thanks to Mr Mcasual. But add a pear of m4 boots to genesis with autofit tool and some time the shoes and boots will crunch up. like a beer can on the characters feet. ..lol nd that don;t have to be animated for it to happen.
some old gen clothing will fly off during the animation cycle will fly back on at the end of the cycle. and even baking the key-frames to the timeline doesn''t seem to fix it. though i am hoping with the new keymate from go figer that will resolve some of those issues. but for now I'm not buying it for experimentation , I'll wait to see what others can do with it.
when you save a scene using autfofit tool you loose the fit you had before you saved the scene on reload.and you have to use the smoothing modifier to fix it, which you shouldn't have to do.
with some of the Genesis own clothing morphs such as with the MFD the poke through on the animation cycle is just beyond be able to fix them unless you do to every key-frame one at a time and at 300 key-frames that can take a very long time
the user interface does not allow me to drop the animate time line to the low end of the screen still attached to the daz program. where i can get a longer lay out. I have to undock it and then it falls behind the program when working with something else., also i have a much less view work space, which with my tired old eyes is not a good thing..lol
also the UI is very bulky for key- framing animation. so for that reason I stop using daz4 I still have it loaded and play with it now and then but i don't buy nothing for it anymore. But if the peasant clothes and the 1950s genesis clothes ever become available in .DAZ or PZ3 format I'll be one of the first to buy them. :)
http://www.daz3d.com/shop/carrara-8-pro ;)
Going back to the initial message:
I've become wary at the store. The first and fixable reason is that the database doesn't look for duplicates. It's all well and good to say we should "take responsibility," but tracking a DAZ purchase is a nightmare. The product name is often neither the download name nor the file name. Why? Who knows? Every time I download a multiple file purchase, I end up with at least one duplicate, because the names on my download log are not the same as the ones on the Downloads page. This has always been a problem (I've been a member and customer on and off for more than ten years, going back to Vic 1.0). But at least before the "new" store if you added something to your wishlist, you got a warning if it was already there and if you added something to your cart, you got a warning if you had already purchased it. I think there was even a time when, if you bought something on your wish list, it was removed from your wish list.
More devastating to my purchasing plans, however, is the ridiculous nightmare DAZ has made of installing their purchases. I have Victoria 4.2 installed in Poser, but DS4.5 can't see it. Why? Danged if I know. Because I chose "poser" on the install; if so what am I supposed to do, install her twice? I have Genesis installed, and just purchased the head and body morphs. They're installed, but I can find them. i have Steph 5.0 installed (Steph has always been my favorite figure), But she doesn't seem to have the Genesis morphs, or much of anything else, including the Jenny textures I purchased and installed. And there is no documentation for 4.5 that I can find.
After essentially wasting money on the Genesis morphs, I think it will be a long time before I open anything in DS 4.5 again, and even longer before I make any impulse purchases here.
From a casual glance of the Daz store I see a huge increase in Genesis related content, which makes perfect sense for Daz to do, but I found DS4 too restrictive so I don't use Genesis, however if something comes along not figure specific I'm apt to purchase.
yeah it's all about animation and missing dynamics, physics to the program.
it's not genesis that 's fine.
Dazstudio 5, hellow, june 2013?
It may be too soon after the release of the DSON Importer, but it seems to me that there has been another increase in Genesis only products. Which would be understandable, but I hope the vendors who previously still made Gen 4 and native Poser products will continue to do so and that they haven't decided because of DSON to stop making Gen 4 / native Poser products.
Using Genesis products in Poser is still too hit and miss as to whether the result is acceptable. Granted, that is subjective. But my experiences with DSON has convinced me to NOT buy Genesis products unless it's the $1.99 PC product, and even then, I'm not buying many of those. So, I'm still not spending all that much money at DAZ. Though I spent more in October and November than in other months this year, my spending for the year is still far below what I've spent in other years. Now that the 70+% off sales are done, I don't see my spending increasing for Genesis products or at DAZ. I've spent very little during the Snowball Savings. 50ish % off isn't a sale after two months of 70% off :P
Bottom line? I still prefer Gen 4 products over Genesis/Gen 5 products because Gen 4 is more reliable in Poser, and V4/M4 still pose better in Poser than Genesis. Genesis's crumpled shoulders is not an improvement over the V4/M4 shoulders ... which are easily fixed, while Genesis's crumpled shoulders are not.
I've also not purchased products because it was confusing whether it was DSON or whether it wasn't. If a product has Poser format figures/props, why is it being marketed as DSON? Or is this whole thing just as confusing to the vendors as it is to the customers?
I do like how easy it is to make a creature out of Genesis, but I don't like how horribly most clothing fits those creatures. All my creatures can't be naked, you know.
Well, that's my 10+ cents worth.
Arguably female fighters in heels tend to look stupid too but it'll keep happening. Honestly wish they'd restructure a few of the starter bundles but doubt that'll happen.
What's intriguing me is that while the new store is...questionable...recent email solicits I've been getting have been much better targeted. While I've been hesitant to use them, it at least felt like good deals that would be useful. I wonder if there needs to be more specific suggestions on what the store needs to fix. Granted, a lot of them should be common sense and should have been done in the first place but I wonder if a second start could be done now that some of the more colossal site problems have died down. However, I have a feeling there won't be any major updates until after the holiday season.
...I felt the same concerning 4.5 and Genesis though because of hardware issues as I am on an older system. I have learned ways to make 4.5 work under the strict memory and Open GL limitations I deal with.
I do agree about the "fare" of the content. offerings
While I have always supported the idea of "normal" everyday clothing, most of the 50s offerings are dated for my needs as well. Like yourself I am into Cyberpunk and "near future"stories/settings. My big disappointment is the continued emphasis Daz places on Fantasy (for example consider the current "Dungeon" promo).
Never was much into high fantasy, magic & all OK, I do have a soft spot for the fey, but that is about it). When they do something on a sci-fi theme it is usually more "futuristic" and utopian (well save for Stonemason and AntFarm).
Would love to see more content done in the cyber/post apocalyptic style.
I'm really into sci-fi. But what I want is practical futuristic clothing for male and female female and everyday clothing from different walks in society. I'm not into overly smexy, I want functional, but also realistic. I also am looking for detail. That means holsters and belts and pockets, and less tights and slippers and form fitting stuff. I would love wrinkles and tears, and that sort of thing.
Every product I make is compatible with both DS 3 & 4.5. I made a conscious decision to keep on supporting the older DS 3, partly because I don't like DS 4.5, and partly because there's no need for architectural items to be in the new format. So don't worry - my products will work for you for a very long time.
One of my beefs with DS from the very beginning has been this lack of compatibility with older versions, and the constant updates, forcing both customers and PAs to keep chasing their tails. I can understand PAs who make Genesis content using the latest version, but for anyone else, there's no need to reduce their customer base unnecessarily.
mac
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I have no enmity anymore for Genesis.
V4, V3, V2 worked in whatever DazSudio version (and Carrara after 6) you had, with no funny business. I installed V4 in (I think) Daz1.8.
Props and hair for V4 could be (and I have done it) used in older versions of the software.
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Genesis was such a radical shift and people weren't ready for something that far out. I personally expected V5 to be a refinement of V4. It turned out to be something completely different.
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Lack of documentation and Carrara/Poser non compatiblity didn't help matters.
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Not trying to start a fight, just trying to answer the posters question.
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To Anyone who likes Genesis, I'm happy for you and no offense was meant or implied.
Every product I make is compatible with both DS 3 & 4.5. I made a conscious decision to keep on supporting the older DS 3, partly because I don't like DS 4.5, and partly because there's no need for architectural items to be in the new format. So don't worry - my products will work for you for a very long time.
One of my beefs with DS from the very beginning has been this lack of compatibility with older versions, and the constant updates, forcing both customers and PAs to keep chasing their tails. I can understand PAs who make Genesis content using the latest version, but for anyone else, there's no need to reduce their customer base unnecessarily.
mac
Thank you I Appreciate that you still support daz3 and pz3 poser files. I'm sure that it helps in sales for supporting multi versions of daz. , I wish most the venders did. Peace.! :)
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Ditto!
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Thanks maclean
I stopped shopping here since V5 and Genesis came
I do have the DSON thing for POSER, but as they still (after a month or more) do not have shape of a Genesis for it..
It is useless
What I still get from Daz is the Danie and Marforno material and StoneMason
The rest is no longer important
Never mad the jump to 4.5 and Genesis, a Poser user, and as such my shopping is down here at DAZ. Sill will pickup an item if it is for Poser, mostly settings or other model.
We also support Poser 6 and up as well as DS 3 and 4 in all our environment and character sets except in a few circumstances (Maybe 2 LOL)
I don't see that changing for us. I know times changes and software and technology does and while thats great I have a lot of empathy for those who can't afford to constantly upgrade so we try as best we can to be as backward compatible as possible even if that means extra work etc.
well.. of course times change and so does software
all moves on.. but Poser goes great and has reached version 2012 and will move on to Poser 10 and onwards
It does not need things like Daz4.5.1.5.6.9.0 upgrades all the time
and what can be done with V4 is absolute close to photo realistic
It is fun that Genesis has clothes that fit instantly.. but so does V4 cross talk
Stop with making new Vic figures, make V4 more perfect (if you think that is needed)
I do not..
As I am sure that when we would have gotten many Genesis and V5 things there comes a V6 that is much much much better
and we start again. That is unwise.. unwanted..
and it will be in the end the end of DAZ
stay with V4 and make morphs that make her more perfect
and stop with Genesis and continue with the Poser Crosstalk clothing
the only only only thing I like about Genesis so far is that you can fnally make the fingers longer..
well.. make a morph that does that trick with V4
(please)
These are bad economic times.. for most in the world
stick to and return to V4 and make much more for her
There is still money to make if you do.. for vendors.. create cities.. buildings... streets, cars... trees.. look at renderosity...
look at Runtimedna... stop your so called progress with the V5 and genesis ... make V4 more perfect without starting all over again
I know you do Anne that is my I have a folder in my runtime just for "ART Collaborations Products". and I mix and match them and use them in almost everything i create.. as they say you got the good stuff. :)
Actually if Daz had offered V5 & M5 for V4 & M4 format they would have sold more I mean we need to have the genesis V4 morphs for V5 anyway so why not make it in both file formats... I complain to smith micro also about not making Alyson avilabbil for V4 because that would make the character wardrobe go futher
I like what they offer for genesis I just don't use it. so if they would Have offered those products in . DAZ &PZ3; file formats for older versions of daz and for poser , I would have jump on buying them ... same for the genesis clothing.. if they would have offered them for daz3 and poser formats they would sell a lot more of them. at least i know i would have bought them.
@efron_24 no thanks I can't abide Poser.
I would never go back to V4 or M4 I much prefer the versatility of Genesis.
And yes do look at RDNA and Renderosity, RDNA has a small market their stuff is good and versatile but alot of their stuff doesn't cater for the DS user so they loose out there, and renderosity is just saturated with similar variations of the same things for the Gen 4 girls.
Wow, it isn't just me! One of the biggest sale killers for me is a female "action" figure in heels. Even Boris Vallejo knew enough to put them in flats.
As for targeted marketing: I nearly succumbed to the Thank You Vic and Mike, and then noticed something that may be the final deal-stopper for me with DAZ figures. No genitals? Why do people put up with this silliness? Would you buy a "human" figure with only three fingers? With one eye missing? We went through this before, when M3 came out (there was a lengthy battle over whether DAZ should at least tell us before the sale that Mike had been thoroughly scalped). We won that round, and now I see the same "If you want genitals, you must be a prevert" getting slung around. Darlins, if my kid was born without genitals, I'd be upset. What kind of perv does that make me?
Passing on Vic 5, and sorry I spent money on Genesis and Steph 5.
...admittedly I have to agree.
In the first pic below I had to merge Sadie and Aiko 3 hiding Aiko's head and Sadie's body. This had to be redone for every pose I used.
In the second pick I simply scaled the Genesis version of Sadie added a bit of Steph and was able to use clothing content that would have taken a wing and prayer to convert correctly using XD.
This could never have been done with the Figure Mixer in 3Advanced.
I disagree, to go back to individual figures for each character would be a total step back. I love genesis for the Fact that I can dial up any character and mix all of them. I dont like Gen 4 rigging, the bends seem much more toony (Sure Genesis does have some issues with bends, but it's a huge improvement over generation 4 in my opinion) I'm much more capable of creating original/unique characters with genesis than I ever was with generation 4 which is the reason I got into Daz in the first place.
There are genitals available, but only in certain bundles. The pro bundles for Vicky and Mike, I think. And Steph. Some character products include textures for the genitals, and some don't. If that's important to you, read the fine print. Or check, before your 30 days are up.
I personally don't care for Genesis. I like Poser. Especially the newest version of Poser. The renders just look a lot better to me. I also use Vue a lot, and Poser is more compatible with Vue. It's possible to get Genesis into Vue, but there's a lot more hoops to jump through.
But I don't think everyone should go back to V4. People are doing great things with Genesis; more power to them.
I do think we might be seeing the beginning of a split in the marketplace. People who love Genesis don't want to go back to V4. People who love Poser don't want to give up their advanced shaders, weight-mapping, dynamic hair, etc. Of course compatibility is great...to a point. Nobody wants to be stuck with Poser 4 technology forever just for the sake of compatibility. Both DS and Poser are advancing, and that might necessarily mean they are growing less compatible.
Not sure why people forget there is quite a viable alternative to Studio and Poser. The beta works quite nicely with genesis. Renders better and faster then ether. Is not limited to poser/DAZ content. Has built in modeling so you can make morphs on the fly. And does wide open environments.
http://www.daz3d.com/shop/products/carrara/carrara-what-is-carrara
But are DAZ committed to developing it? Or would switching to Carrara be potentially a blind alley?
And of course it is not free.
Do you think a Studio user would be able to switch over easily, what sort of learning curve is there?
The irony is if I had gone for a platinum membership before I went crazy on buying Genesis items I'd probably have been able to buy Carrara with the money saved on discounts!
I've tried Carrara, but just can't figure it out.
I'm just not that good at modeling. I've bought Carrara, Shade, Hexagon, and tried a bunch of others. The only one can I do anything with is Anim8or. And I can only make fairly basic models with that.
I'm willing to try just about anything if it has something I really want. That's why I sunk over a thousand bucks into Vue (never mind the content). I wanted the Ecosystem trees and stuff. Upgraded to the last version because of the underwater caustics, and the current version because of the animated waterfalls. But so far, there's nothing in Genesis that makes it something I have to have. That might change in the future, but for now, there's nothing that inspires me to part with my money or learn new software.
genesis figures work slowly in poser and this hasn't been fixed yet either. (not necessarily DAZ fault). On top of this the link to the list of the products that have been updated to be compatible with poser has become really difficult to find (I can't find it all today), but the links used to be in several places including they used to be on the front pages.
Also I do not get any emails to tell me that genesis products I have bought have been updated to be compatible with poser. I don't even know if DAZ staff are rushing to do these or not. I feel disappointed because I spent probably close to 1000 dollars on genesis for poser stuff, but daz doesn't seem interested in me.
Love esther
perhaps the new ds5 version really would be great for Genesis?
and we can again gain money.
please develop it 1000 times better that poser users droop their tongue out of mouth :-P
I do not go for less than what is available today in poser pro 2012 (expected better developed).
that means a solution for the still missed dynamic cloth creator, dynamic hair, bullet physics or other, a useful timeline to do animations.
if daz would like to come with a pro version for more pro users on the 3d market. (can't be free)
i need budget to invest and wait till that day.