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There's that, too. Someone brought this up in another thread: "Need saturation." Eventually, you reach a point where you really don't need any more. Especially now, when Wardrobe Wizard and the like mean you don't have to buy all new clothes for a new figure.
So, maybe the message is "If you have so many purchases you can't remember what you bought, you don't need any more." :-D
When it reaches the point that you have over 90GB of installed content and need specialized programs and spreadsheets to remember if you bought such-and-such, then yeah - time to quit, at least for me.
Now I just buy something when I need it, sale or not.. and I haven't needed anything for a long, long time. :smirk:
I knew I had plenty when I could sit down and create a squirrel with tentacles on the moons surface.. out of existing content! :ahhh:
Are you aware of this thread:
http://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/13531/
I am now. ;-)
Recently I got another email including a $5 coupon from DAZ, saying "we miss you so much, we'll pay you to get you back!"
Yes, I'd also like to continue buying more products from the DAZ store again, but it seems the guys there are making it very hard for their customers to keep on supporting them. Why? There are many reasons, and I think most of them are well-known but are ignored intentionally:
First of all, DAZ is not listening to their customers. Instead of respecting their wishes (which are sometimes not so special), they are just ignoring them. For example there were many requests to keep all Readme files within the downloadable packages (as it was common before), but they decided to cancel them completely. For each single product, now several files have to be downloaded separately, like Readme files, content file lists or rendering infos. After each purchase the customer has to search the whole DAZ homepage in order to retrieve original information from the author. Usually documentation is always included with the purchased product, but not here at DAZ. When you're in the middle of a workflow and you'd like to look up some hints from the author, this whole procedure is really annoying and sometimes even unacceptable, especially if the working PC is not supposed to go online. On a regular basis DAZ is closing such "unwanted" threads in the forums asking for improvements, and so many user voices will remain unheard and ignored.
The next point I'd like to mention is that compatibility is still a foreign word for DAZ developers. Functions that have been introduced few D|S versions ago are suddenly "unappreciated", have disappeared from application menus, or simply won't work anymore as before. Noone likes to rely on a new program version that doesn't behave like the previous one. Of course artists want to continue using products they already purchased. Buying a product update (if it will be developed at all) for every new D|S version (even if the application is for free) is not acceptable.
However, the same problem applies to new DAZ products, too. It should be absolutely no problem for DAZ vendors to include additional material presets that can be interpreted and executed by older DAZ Studio versions ("legacy files"). But instead of making their new products compatible with all recent Studio versions, DAZ postulates that D|S 4.5 (or for using Genesis2 even D|S 4.6) has to be running. Even new products for the good-old Victoria 4 already come with material presets which sometimes cannot be read anymore by Studio versions older than V4.5. What if users still like to work with D|S 4.0, the initial version the Genesis platform has been introduced with? Unfortunately the latest D|S versions are still buggy. After all it really wouldn't be too much effort for DAZ vendors also to include the approved file formats like "DSA/DSB/DSE" material files which can be interpreted by every common D|S version. Another approach could be that DAZ is providing a free "material preset converter" tool for DAZ-internal formats, in order to translate the newest "DUF" material file format back to "DSF" or even to "DSA/DSB/DSE". But as it seems, DAZ is not interested at all to support their existing community. In the meantime you almost get the impression that Poser users are more welcome than DAZ users, as all you need in Poser is just to install that DSON stuff and everything is set and ready to go. For DAZ 4.0 users no support can be expected anymore, especially in conjunction with that belated "DSF" to "DUF" format change nobody needs.
The only opportunity left for me is to stick on the V4 figure and to spend more money buying at other stores like Renderosity or Content Paradise, which are now my preferred choice over DAZ. The simple reason is that there are many vendors who seem to keep an eye on the compatibility of their offered products, as they are very interested to keep them functional for a wide range of different platforms and their versions. All that proprietary stuff recently introduced by DAZ, especially forcing their own users to upgrade to buggy new versions is not what I expected for my work. As long as DAZ doesn't realize that it's up to them changing their mind and behavior, finding an acceptable solution to support their own applications correctly, it will be hard to continue supporting their store, regardless how many new base figures they might have released in the meantime.
As I already wrote in one of my other threads: compatibility is the magic word. But it seems DAZ has lost its magic.
I totally disagree with you on that point. 4.5 once out of beta and 4.6 have been superior to 4.0 running on Windows 7 64.
You need a relatively new version of Poser to run DSON as I understand, so many Poser people aren't happy either.
As for V6, why should a brand new product be made to run on older software, when they are giving away the latest?
I agree with you 100% on the readme issue though. :-)
I am turned off with the whole incompatibility between G1 and G2 and now slowly trying to force me to use DIM. I am speaking with my wallet and no longer am purchasing anything here... In reality most of us are hobbyist and could prolly still go far using DS3A...
...I hear you on that as my favourite outdoor light set to this day only works in 3A. I was totally bummed out when LDP-R was released after I learned that to create the same effects I could with LDP2 and MoodMAster2, it required I also have an expensive pro grade application (I even had placed LDP-R on my wishlist).
This brings up one of my major peeves with Daz which markets it's own and brokered products primarily to the hobbyist's/enthusiast's market but then turns around and only supports bridging/linking to professional grade software that many of us in that category cannot afford.
OK I'll admit, the above case is the vendor's choice, but shouldn't Daz, being the broker, be able to step in and request that it also work with more affordable software so it can be used by a larger segment of it's customer base? Wouldn't that benefit both Daz and the plugin vendor?
For example, PSPX5 can now open and use .abr brushes without needing conversion. This suddenly opens up a wider customer base for Deviney's wonderful brush sets as PSP costs a fraction of what Photoshop/PhotoshopCS does.
This is the one thing that bothers me. Yes, we are hobbyists, which means a lot of us don't have deep pockets for purchasing high priced professional software tools to assist our work. Daz really needs to look into promoting links with the more affordable/free tools many of us use like GIMP Blender, PSP, and/or SIlo.
I know you are referring to LDP_R needing PS luckily I have CS5, one of the benefits of selling custom stories. I have to give DAZ props I guess they are reading the forums and contacted me asking what my concerns were. I want to be clear I have nothing against any of the products or DIM. I just want to be given a choice. I was not the only one soured with their decision to make us start all over again going from V5 to V6 but I suppose it may have been the same going from V3 to V4 which was before my time so I can't compare..
...I wish they'd listen and talk to those like myself who can't afford the high end stuff
I just want a simple "LDP" plugin for Daz which is easy to use like it's predecessor and has the wonderfully detailed skydomes DreamLight is famous for.
I have "known" you for quite a while from Rogerbee's thread and we both talked about our enjoyment of LDP but to be honest Lux has waayyy surpassed it for me...
Step one: Set DS4.6 to read your DS3 content folder as both of course.
Step two: Set up your LDP2 in DS3 and SAVE as a Scene file to the Default Scene folder in the DS3 content folder.
Step three: Note the Sky Dome SIZE down. To use in a latter step. and Close DS3.
Step four: Open DS4.6 go to the DS3 scene file and load it. It will look crap but loads.
Step five: Select the Sky Dome and Scale it back up to Size used in DS3.
Step Six: Select all lights in the Scene tab and Parent to the Sky Dome.
In step two be sure you set up all your ambient lights and others before you save, you can not ADD any in DS4.6. You can adjust the lights settings in DS4.6 but not set them up properly by hand very easily.
This works very well for single renders. Not at all for animated renders which I need it for.
I feel like the odd man out here. Sure, I have to log into the site when I return, but once is it until I close my browser (Firefox on Mac). When I hit an item I've already purchased, the site says so, even for items that were bundled. The grey color scheme sucks though. I do like the filtering ability on my purchase history.
My buying here has been sporadic for years now. I don't buy as much as I used to, but that is more due to being able to find it all in Studio and remember what I have. The UI for Studio 4 is a mass of confusion for me too.
I sometimes buy StoneMason type products- and similar products from others.
My buying from all sites has slowed down recently.
I am off of the Genesis thing after handing over a few hundred to Daz. It sort of works with Poser- and sort of not.
Easier to use V4-WM or the new Dawn character. I make my own morphs so not having many face shapes starting out is not really a problem.
With them contacting me (I am not going to reveal the contents of the conversation since as I learned yesterday violates rule 15 of the TOS)
asking for my feedback means they are reading and taking our concerns seriously perhaps. I wonder if there has been a drop in business or they are simply offering good CS, since as they claimed V6 has been their biggest seller. Either way I always appreciate good CS.... It's also the reason I am Reality user..
I still shop at Daz (they know) and I'm enjoying all these sales however I'm not supporting anything to do with Genesis 2 Female or V6. I bought G2F bundle when it first came out and regret it later when I found it wasn't backward compatible with Genesis.
I'm not big on erotic or pornographic art (though I do the occasional nude) so I don't need all the hyperbola of realistic features in G2F/V6. A real artists can make do with what they got, such as RGUS (at Renderosity gallery) has done fantastic artwork with all the limitations of V4. As the saying goes a poor tradesman blames his tools.
I love Genesis ability to go beyond the female model desired (or lusted?) by most and give us other characters; that was real thinking outside the box. But I guess sex sells and all the concentration on female models at Daz and elsewhere (i.e. Dawn) are a strong testament to that. That basically means that artists who want more than just females populating their artwork are forever going to struggle to find content support.
I was seriously disappointed in DAZ and the way they introduced the second generation of genesis. I realise that some are quite happy and love the female base but I'm not one of them.
...yeah, but LDP renders are not as glacially slow and don't require that I rebuild all my shaders
I was seriously disappointed in DAZ and the way they introduced the second generation of genesis. I realise that some are quite happy and love the female base but I'm not one of them.
While I haven't bought into G2F, I do have to kind of defend her right now. Her body morph package also comes with an Androgynous morph. So, while G2F starts as a female figure, she isn't stuck as a female, either. Now whether or not anybody plans on doing a male figure based on G2F remains to be seen (unless there's one floating around somewhere already).
Step one: Set DS4.6 to read your DS3 content folder as both of course.
Step two: Set up your LDP2 in DS3 and SAVE as a Scene file to the Default Scene folder in the DS3 content folder.
Step three: Note the Sky Dome SIZE down. To use in a latter step. and Close DS3.
Step four: Open DS4.6 go to the DS3 scene file and load it. It will look crap but loads.
Step five: Select the Sky Dome and Scale it back up to Size used in DS3.
Step Six: Select all lights in the Scene tab and Parent to the Sky Dome.
In step two be sure you set up all your ambient lights and others before you save, you can not ADD any in DS4.6. You can adjust the lights settings in DS4.6 but not set them up properly by hand very easily.
This works very well for single renders. Not at all for animated renders which I need it for.
...I don't care to deal with going through all these extra hoops, especially having to manually "rig" the skylight and ambient array myself when they were already a component of the original plugin.
The SDK had been consistent since 4.5. DreamLight, which has been a major contributor to and proponent of Daz Studio for years, jumping on the bandwagon of supporting only expensive pro grade software tools (in spite of what I have read on their site advocating use of GIMP and PSP as well) is a major disappointment. If I were in a position of approving a new plugin for Daz, I'd make certain that is was usable for the majority of the customer base, meaning it either should either be a complete standalone that worked totally within the Daz Studio application, or allowed the use of other more affordable software alternatives to Photoshop.
While I haven't bought into G2F, I do have to kind of defend her right now. Her body morph package also comes with an Androgynous morph. So, while G2F starts as a female figure, she isn't stuck as a female, either. Now whether or not anybody plans on doing a male figure based on G2F remains to be seen (unless there's one floating around somewhere already).the little I saw posted by DAZ officials seemed to indicate separate figures feel free to prove me wrong that was one of the main reasons I was so disappointed by the release. Even V4 had a male side just saw very little love for it...
I'm assuming there will be separate figures as well, G2F and G2M, but Dawn didn't exactly come out of the gate androgynous, either. Cath is creating a male figure based on Dawn. Who knows if Hivewire has any plans to release a standalone male figure as well.
All it takes is one good person who can morph well to give it a go and I'm sure G2F can be morphed into whatever.
I don't know, I guess I don't see what all the bickering is back and forth when both figures came out in a female form.
While I haven't bought into G2F, I do have to kind of defend her right now. Her body morph package also comes with an Androgynous morph. So, while G2F starts as a female figure, she isn't stuck as a female, either. Now whether or not anybody plans on doing a male figure based on G2F remains to be seen (unless there's one floating around somewhere already).
RAMWolf has done a male morph for G2F - look in the G2F freebie list in the Freepository.
I suppose it's also possible that when Genesis 2 male is released it will be the same figure as Genesis 2 Female, but just a different shape. If that's the case then theoretically it will make morphs dual-compatible between the figures, along with clothing and accessories. Sadly, scant information has been released about any future Genesis 2 figures.
The only thing which irks me is the lack of information. I understand that the male figure might not yet be completed, but I'm not sure there would be any danger to at least informing us of their intentions. None of this has put me off making purchases though, and Daz continues to be, in my opinion, the best store for quality goods. I won't bore you with a list of issues I have with certain competitors, but suffice to say the combination of strong customer service, quality and ease of use is why I keep coming back here.
I thought V4/M4/K4 were molded from the same base mesh that the user just never saw (think of an unreleased Genesis type), not that M4/K4 were off of V4.
Well, to the original poster.
You are definitely not alone.
Genesis 2 broke the spell for me.
I also find myself tired of the whole, "You can make it work" attitude.
I don't want to make it work (most of which you have to pay for). I just want it to work.
Genesis was the pinnacle for me. But with DAZ splitting support and eventually moving on?
I find myself unwilling to spend money on either anymore.
So I buy some of the $1.99 shaders and scenes.
$10.00 a month? No problem.
Much better than the $50-$100 I used to spend. :P
Frankly, I doubt I'll ever return to those spending levels.
I will never invest in another Generation the way I did with Genesis.
Never.
iirc I think it was asked in the thread at another site and I remember them saying it would be a shape for Dawn it was one of the reasons I was keen from the beginning on this character. I have no doubt that some of my reaction to Gf2 is an emotional one and that it has impacted on my decision making. As I stated earlier I was very disappointed in the way DAZ introduced this figure so much so that I almost gave up 3d altogether. It is bound to influence my decision making * shrugs* I have no problem with others using it, it's my preference to not.
Just wanted to add...I'm sorry if people saw my original post as bagging gf2 it wasn't intended that way. More a case of correcting what I saw as a misconception. Rereading Vaskania post she talks of defending gf2... So I thought I should add this my disappointment is with the company more than anything else.
They were built from the same base mesh, but that does not make M4 a morph for V4.
Remember that the male morph came with the original V4, or possibly with the 4.1 service update. It pre-dated Michael 4 by at least a year, as I recall. And of course the joint centres weren't as readily editable in the fourth generation figures, and the falloff zones (like the weightmaps on newer figures) didn't adjust to morphs so that does limit the usefulness of the M4 OBJ as a morph for V4.
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The androgynous morph for G2F isn't to neuter the shape, it's to flatten the chest - I don't yet have Dawn, so i don't know if her androgynous morph is a sex-removal morph or just to produce an androgynous woman.
They were built from the same base mesh, but that does not make M4 a morph for V4.my post about v4 was referring to the male morph for her not m4...there were a couple of textures released for the morph and I think that was about it. M4 also had a female morph but that was created by a pa.
...however, unlike Genesis, clothing content made for the gen4 male figures could not be fit to the Gen4 female figures without a third party conversion tool. Neither could character morphs or Maps.