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Well that went well. I didn't try to export yet - too late - must sleep.
It took a little bit to shape Genesis into a generation 2 figure. I used Sanctum Art Solo - as that even conforms to the face! I didn't get it perfect - as this was just a test. Then I tried conforming the big helmet thing on her. No luck. Auto fit just kills that thing!
I applied a few starts and stop from aniMate. Worked great. I think it's because I tried conforming that helmet to the actual SA Solo, but after a few steps... well... you'll see: It still has an hour to upload to YouTube from the time I send this post. Good night.
Genesis Solo
Anywhere you see the purple reflecting surface, that's Genesis' skin. It's SA Solo doing the rest. I didn't try to do this...
I have a feeling that I could make a Grea Generation 1 & 2 morph set for Genesis. I'll have to try that further. I'll make it a lot better - even though this one really isn't bad.
That's actually what I'm going for as mostly I'm trying to do togas and ancient tunics, it's either this route or Zbrush togas. I'll try resetting downloads again for Bryce and
I find yes, it needs cloth simulation. to remove defects in the cloth autofit. Now, howeve,r I find I also need to buy GenX, because the shapes only allow transfer of the clothing, and not the morphs. Then I need the DAZ cloth plugin; by which time I spent $250 already, and now it's another $150 to add decimation and animation to that, So it's already got to $400 without even trying.
I started to think maybe I should just stay in CR2s and PZ3 a while longer.
I keep saying, you keep missing it
ONLY CLOTH MADE BY OPTITEX is DYNAMIC in studio!!!
buying the plugin does NOT enable dynamic cloth
it just adds to the functions of the OPTITEX cloth.
I think they do have some togas though.
So the video made it up okay. The flash in the middle is the only actual effect I added on my own - the cloth blew up by itself! lol
But the test was fun.
I go that. I poisted in Daz Studio forum, and someone said I should buy a 3rd party product to convert stuff to Daz Studio dynamic cloth. But I think I have figured out a workflow for getting gen3 togas on gen4 figures:
1. Obtain and install Daz Studio 4.5, Genesis, Victoria3 (for Daz) Victoria 4 (for Pser and Daz), Content Management Service, and body shapes (gen3 shapes are necessary. Possibly gen4 shapes are necessary too, some say they aren't, but I don't know, because I already installed them).
2. If not included in the base installer, also install Poser Format Exporter (PFE) and autofit plugins. For custom gen4 character shapes, install GenX also.
3. In Daz Studio, load Genesis base figure.from smart content tab.
4. Apply V4 shape morph from shapes tab.
5. Load V3 clothing from content tab. Daz asks whether to autofit, do so as necessary.
6. Optionally, pose figure in Daz (saves cloth simulation time). For a custom V4 figure, something would be done with GenX here too.
7. Select clothing and export as prop via Poser Format Exporter (PFE) following directions in its readme file. Optinally export morphs as pose lso.
8. Open Poser, load V4, and import props made in Daz. Also import any morphs made in DAZ.
9. Do cloth simulation to remove unwanted distortions from cloth conversion.
10. Save generated cloth as prop.
11. Open Carrara and load V4 from Daz library (do not load V4 from PZ3 made in Pozer as it causes data loss).
12. Import cloth made in Poser.
13. Scale and position to get onto figure as necessary (scaling and positioning between Poser and Carrara is unpredictable).
14. Edit cloth with Carrara deformers to fix any pokethrough and any other unwanted deformations.
Render. Voila. One's done. How simple )
(P.S. Theoretically, it should be possible to use the V3-toV2 morph, included in V3, to get V2 clothing on as well, somehow, but I'm sitll tyring to get the V3 workflow figured out).
7. Select clothing and export as prop via Poser Format Exporter (PFE) following directions in its readme file. Optinally export morphs as pose lso.
Just a straight "obj" export is all that's needed for props.
9. Do cloth simulation to remove unwanted distortions from cloth conversion.
I'm fairly certain that Carrara can import Poser Scenes (PZ3) that include dynamic cloth simulations as well. So if you animated the figure in poser and ran the simulation - and you like the results, theoretically use should be able to bring it back into Poser.
and you need the dyntomorph python script
Oh bother! I thought I saw a link to that script at Holly's Place. Is it new that this script is needed?
Wendy, one day you and I should sit down and write up a simple instructions sheet for this whole procedure. I'm all spun around in circles now, and I forgot what he's really trying to accomplish! lol
Thanks for everything Wendy Girl!
it is on CarraraCafe I believe, no, an old script, used to be on old Daz site.
just need to import it on Poser cloth sim to freeze the morphs into the timeline
then the Poser scene will open with cloth animation in Carrara.
Beautiful, Thanks.
That's great news, thanks! Usually I let the cloth simulation run about four seconds after reaching the final pose, because the cloth settles and it usually looks better a different timepoints depending on the camera angle. Sometimes I add a fan too, and I usually add keyframes and adjust paramaters to get the figure and cloth into the final pose, usually three or four times to get acceptable results, for which I allow four hours per figure in the scene. Often it hangs a couple of times so I do alot of saves....I'm just trying to run the simulation for the dress at the beginning of this thread, and this pose.
thats cool - great job
the dyn2cloth script works really well: thanks!
Here is an initial scrub on the dress at the top of this thread on V4, but I can't do a direct comparision yet, because I can't open Genesis in Poser 2010. For that, I think I have to upgrade to Poser 2012 and purchase the export script, which would be....$300. A little cheaper than building the whole thing in Daz instead.
While waiting for news on Carrara 8.5, I went ahead with upgrading to Poser 2012, somewhat reluctantly, but the library integration has been alot of work, as I now have some 30 gigabytes of geometries and textures....It could be quite a while before I get to a direct comparison with Genesis for the same image, apologies.
Hi Emeyer :)
First thing to realise is that Genesis (with the "Iconic shapes" morphs) can be the same shape as V3, M3 or V4, M4 etc..
at that point,. any clothes for those figures can be added, and will auto-fit to genesis.
It you want to create a Classic (draped cloth) you don't need to start with a (conforming) dress..
that's probably the hardest way to go,...
It's much easier to make a Vertex "grid", and voilà,. you have a plane / sheet, which can use physics, and a soft-body modifier to make it fall and fold like cloth.
Next,. you can save yourself hours of processing, by replacing V4 in your simulation with some simplified "Proxy" (collision objects) like a couple of cylinders for the legs,. and perhaps a scaled sphere for the hips / abdomen area.
The Soft-body vertex "Grid" will calculate much faster when it's colliding with simpler objects,. and once you have the simulation and you're happy with the way the soft-body is falling / folding,.. then you can hide or delete those "proxy" collision objects, and move your V4 back into place.
If you Triangulate the grid in the vertex modeller,. and smooth it,. you'll get even better folding. (it also helps to angle it before you simulate the physics,. so it falls and collides at an angled edge instead of flat, ..causing more folds.
Generally when you're using Physics,. and especially soft body,. then you don't want to try using a Conforming figure like a dress. or using rigged figures, since both of these things are designed to be animated and morphed,.
All "conforming" clothing is built, and rigged to conform to the motion or pose of the parent Figure.
Dynamic clothing is a completely different thing.
Carrara's soft-body modifier, should not be confused with a dynamic clothing simulator.
It's like the difference between a tabby cat, and a Lion,.. technically they're both cat's,. but they're different animals..
Hope it helps :)
Well thank you, this is what I find. If I even use a reduced-resolution figure, I get poke through, and it's much more difficult to fix on crumpled vertex cloth objects than on conformed clothing. Also I have purchased quite a bit of clothing with high-res textures that I like and want to get working properly It takes a very long time to get cloth to fold as desired when starting from a zero pose, so it makes sense to help it along by starting with conformed clothing and set it up closer to the final posture, then convert the conformed clothing to a prop at that point, rather than starting from a zero pose.
However now I am having another problem with getting clothing to fit on morphed characters at all.
I change the body shape with the morph dials, and even though the conforming clothing has morph dials with the same names, i have to set the same morphs on each piece of clothing manually. I think there';s meant to be something called 'crosstalk' so conformed clothing inherits morphs from the object to which it is conformed, but that doesn't seem to happen automatically, and I don't know how to change it.
Even after applying morphs, there's still poke-through on quite a bit of clothing, especially if the figure is bending arms or legs more than 90 degrees. If there's any poke-through, the simulation gets confused and crashes.
It seems to me, it should be relatively easy to change a mesh automatically so it doesn't pass through another mesh object, and that was meant to be the point of declaring 'collision' on an object in the first place. After all, the software knows the figures and normals. All it should need to do is move the mesh so it doesn't intersect. For some reason no software appears to do that automatically, even for morphed conformed figures, let alone dynamic cloth.
Hi Emeyer :)
Conforming clothing "Should" match the figure it's fitted to,. but depending on the Figure, and the clothing, there may not be all the morphs available in the clothing that are available in the figure.
it's best to start with a base figure, add the clothing to it, then morph the shape of the figure,.
that way, you avoid the disappointment of applying conforming clothing to figure and seeing poke through.
Genesis should be less prone to this, as the clothing should Auto-fit to the figure as the figure shape is changed.
this is possible because all the figure morphs are transferred into the clothing when you fit it to the figure.
V4 / M4 clothing has (Unimesh fit's) which add more of the figure morphs to the clothing, and allow it to fit a wider range of figure shapes.
Poke through can also be worked around by hiding the underlying figure, for example,. the arms inside a jacket are not seen, so they can be made invisible without being noticed.
Conforming clothing,. is actually a fully rigged figure, which "follows" the movement of he parent figure,. this is one reason why it's not possible to convert a conforming clothing item into a dynamic physics simulated cloth,. there are bones in the clothes.
There's a reason why there are two different methods, and why conforming clothing is used more than fully dynamic simulated cloth.
the same applies to Mesh hair, versus dynamic hair.
Conforming clothing is easier and faster to use since you simply apply it to the figure,.
Dynamic clothing has to be simulated, and the amount of time that takes depends on multiple variables, such as the definition of the cloth mesh, the physics material properties of the dynamic item,. the collision distance to other objects, the complexity of the animation of the figure wearing the dynamic cloth. and more,..
All this processing means that it's more time consuming to use dynamic cloth for an entire figure,
As you've noticed,.. no 3D software currently does what you're asking, ..because it's too complex, and time consuming.
there are specific dynamic clothing simulation programs,. which can either work within your 3D software,. or can be imported into your software after they've been dynamically simulated in their own software.
Carrara doesn't have a dedicated dynamic clothing simulation tool set. .. and "soft-body" physics should not be confused with a dynamic cloth system.
Right now Soft-Body physics doesn't play well with any moving objects,. they pass right through it,. and soft-body has issues with objects which are rigged with bones,.
it's easier to add some morphs to areas that you want to appear softer, .. such as a skirt,, then adjust the morphs as required.
:)
Well true that's the theory. In practice, I think it's more like rock and roll music, for which, the most original and inspiring work mostly occurred many years ago, when ol'daddy couldn't ever have played an electric guitar as a kid, because when he was young, there weren't any.
So all the interesting 3D design work was, in my opinion, pretty well totally over by rtthe beginning of the recent post-new-millenium 'economic recession' in the USA. Already the new stuff is mostly just copies of it. So I want to get the original working. It's worth saving. Like those old recordings of Jimi Hendrix on a portable hand camera after Woodstock ended in 1969, which, it transpired, was the best part of the entire concert, at least in my opinion.
At the time, people didn't think the work was worth saving because better recording technology emerged, and everyone was jumping on the bandwagon as fast as they could.
But after Mr. Hendirx snuck on the Woodstock tage and pretended he was invited, no one ever better captured the sound of falling bombs in Vietnam while playing an electrified star spangled banner ever again, despite all the massive improvements in technology.
So I want to save the old stuff. But what I hear is people trying to sell new copies of the old stuff which is meant to be better instead. but it's not. So I want to put morphs on the original old designs. I no longer believe it's really going to be easier if I spend enough on new things. I heard that before :)
emeyer, old Carrara did not even have softbody physics!
you need to stop eating them Woodstock shrooms!!!
creating morphs yourself by adding a morph target and soft selecting verts is prob the "oldest" way to do it!
if using Poser, add some with the morph brush, even a tiny ones and resave a copy of the clothing if you wish to modify it in Carrara.
Carrara only can add morphs to existing ones on conformed clothing.
and also easier to save in Daz studio created in Hexagon than Carrara btw if you can get that working.
Try resetting and getting the LATEST builds, older ones are more likely to be causing issues.
Otherwise the studio Dform can also create a target on a piece of clothing you can then save and modify in Carrara.
You can use the save to cr2 script in earlier versions but DS4.5 has an export to cr2 option.
Having said that, it doesn't seem to me that it's the fault of the object designer if a conformed figure has a morph with the same name as the object to which it's conformed, and changes to the 'parent' object aren't inherited by its 'children' (although I understand parenting refers to the instance tree, not to conformations these days, regardless I'm not aware of the standard name of the association I think my point is still valid).
If two morphs have the same name, then software should be perfectly capable of passing the change to conformed objects under selective user control. I'd think that constitutes adding one single checkbox in the GUI.
It seems to me it's a sorry excuse for software which insists on enforcing mandanity. Why do we have to replace content which was already designed with morphs in it, but which software says isn't linked up like it could be? It just seems to me that saying it's the content's fault is an excuse for bad software, that's all.
To which I can also add, I looked at all these product pages where content designers listed all the morphs in their content. So I thought, gee, those guys did alot of work, and bought it. Now I find I have to adjust the morphs manually?
All these great people made wonderful custom characters, and I have to go through them and find every single morph they added, and manually set them exactly the same on any clothing I put on them? It's totally ridiculous. I think there's a way of creating a morph target and adding it to the clothing, but I don;t see why it's necessary to do it manually at all, after all, software can autofit to Genesis, which is totally amazing, so why can't it simply hook up morphs with the same name on gen4 figures? Or is it not possible to walk and chew gum at the same time?
perhaps I'm, explaining this badly,..
The way cross talk works, depends on the figure, and the clothing.
V4 for example can have clothes fitted to it,. then the V4 body shape can be changed, and the clothes will also change,. (within the limitations of what morphs are in the clothing and the figure)
some clothing was made for V4 before some V4 shape morphs were released,. and so the clothing doesn't have all the possible shape morphs for V4, that's why you can find (unimesh fit's) which are additional updates for the clothing to support different morphs
Not all figure morphs are included in All clothing.
V3 for example, does not have the same level of crosstalk or morphing.
Genesis can be a child or a troll, and the clothing will automatically adjust to the changes in the figures shape.
Crosstalk should be working. If it's not,. then I'd need some more information about what figures and clothing you're using to answer your questions better
wish I could get genesis working without having to have DS4 installed, would be nice if they got DSON working in Carrara ASAP
Hi CoolArt Dude :)
That's one of the reasons the DIM (Daz Install Manager) was created. :)
DIM updates the Database which the "content management service" uses to supply "Smart content" into DS and Carrara.
Currently, this is done when you load DS after installing any new content. ..Studio reads the metadata and updates the database.
then you can use that new content in Carara 8.5 smart content tab.
so,..Eventually,.. there should be no need to install Daz Studio, to do that.
DIM will do that after it downloads and installs the new content for you.
If you don't want to use Genesis, or smart content, or DIM, then you don't need to,. Carrara 8.5 will work without those.
:)
edited for typo's
it (DIM) works btw
independent of studio
at least for me
and it got my smart content working again in C8.5
Well, as the recent news for Carrara is deferral, I'm not planning to do anything on Genesis until 2014 and meanwhile I'm trying to get gen4 morphs working on gen4 figures. The 'Perfect v4' morphs on Renderosity were on sale, and knowing It'd probably be a headache I was an idiot and bought them, and sure enough, the readme states they don't work in Carrara, but at least since they've been around awhile, there is at least a long and tedious documented process to get them working...described in the discontinued Carrara forum here:
forumarchive.daz3d.com/viewtopic.php?t=185755
Am I to understand there's still unsolved problems with gen4 figures, and workarounds discussed since 2009? It doesn't appear there's anything in last years betas to fix this problem, and instead, we're just hearing promises for future new goodies instead, which, if there's no ongoing effort to fix the old goodies, is rather difficult to believe.
..And, according to Fenric's notes in the sharecg link referred to in the above thread, Dimension3D's file editor is capable of fixing the morphs"
So the next thing to do is to check with Dimension3D whether the file editor has been updated to support weight maps :)
Sorry for the multiple posts. My head is a bit overwhelmed with this stuff.
HI :)
Poser and DS both use Scripting,.
Carrara doesnl;t have scripting,. that,. is the simplified reason that third party morphs (built for use in Poser and DS) dont work in Carrara.
3DUniverse also has some products which will not function in carrara because they use scripting.
Weight maping in poser 9, or Poser Pro 2012 is different from Carrara's or DS's weight mapping.
that's why NEW poser figures don't work in Carrara.
Smith micro were informed of all the new genesis functions and decided to implement "some of those" ,,,but not all.
No,. V4 and M4 work with all of the morphs made by Daz for those figures,.
Daz cannot be expected to support all third party morphs, in all of their software.
Also,. the announcement about carrara's future is a clear statement of intent,.
after all the negative doom and gloom posted in the forums, regarding the demise of carrara, or Daz3D "Dropping" carrara.
We now know that C8.5 will be released,. and that Daz will continue development into Carrara 9.
:)
Well those are some very straightforward facts, thank you. It is not third-party morphs with which I 've had a problem. It's morphs from DAZ vendors which the DAZ shop lists that have the same name as gen4 ++ and elite morphs. One assumes, they are linked. What I learned was, just because a vendor lists morphs that an object supports which have the same name as DAZ morphs, they don'tr necessarily play together, even if the vendor is selling in the DAZ store. So, I'm much more cautious than I was. One can only assume Genesis, already being incompatible with older software, will have even more problems.
The answers, or should I say the solutions, to many of your questions/problem/desires probably lie in the conforming clothing objects CR2. There is a way (actually a simple statement), in the cr2, that can enable/disable auto conforming in later versions of Poser. I don't remember if this was/is supported in Carrara, but this may be part of the problems you are experiencing. Another very real, and more likely possibility are malformed statements in the cr2. Poser, and in some instances DS, is very forgiving in the way it interprets information in the cr2, thus allowing malformed statements to function properly in Poser and not in Carrara. Sometimes these issues can be "fixed" by setting up the figure and the conforming clothing in Poser, and saving the conformer to a new cr2, or simply saving everything as a pz3 and importing into Carrara. If that doesn't work, with a bit of research and a text editor (or one of the commercial cr2 editors) you can fix the cr2 yourself.
Keep in mind, when conforming clothing was "invented" in Poser, it was not actually a feature of Poser, but a hack a few very enterprising individuals found due to some poor coding in Poser. With that in mind, for DS and Carrara to work properly with conforming clothing the programmers had to figure out how Poser was doing this fantastic thing that the software was not designed to do, as well as how everything else worked, without access to the source code. Now, to complicate things even more, the original support for Poser figures in Carrara was not developed by DAZ, but rather by Eovia, the company that DAZ bought Carrara from. This means that the code for Carrara to handle Poser content (and the hacks that provide conforming clothing) is most likely very different than the code used in DS to handle Poser content. That is the reason for the conundrum that Carrara users often find themselves in. Just because something works perfectly in DS or Poser, does not mean it will in Carrara. Without access to the source code, it's very difficult for the programmers to reverse engineer and predict all of the ways in which Poser will accept malformed statements in the cr2, and to build error handling routines to make everything that works perfectly in Poser do the same in Carrara. Add to that the fact that very very few content vendors actually use Carrara, the result is that unless an item specifically states that it has been tested in Carrara, you are sort of rolling the dice with every purchase (though the vast majority of the content works very well in Carrara).
There is literally no comparison between the evolution of Poser content support in Carrara to the support of Genesis in Carrara (initial Poser content support in Cararra was a long and rocky road with some rather interesting and unexpected results - I was a beta tester). The people that are developing Genesis support in Carrara are the same people that developed Genesis for DS (or they at least have access to the people and the original source code). Genesis support in Carrara is not a case of reverse engineering like Poser content support is. Rather than expecting more problems with Genesis support in Carrara, logic dictates that there will be fewer problems than there are with Poser content. Keep in mind, conforming clothing with Genesis is a designed feature, not a user hack like it is in Poser.