Seeking advice on this purchase.
SLoTH_XVX
Posts: 199
I am in the market for a new PC (FINALLY!) after 5 years of limping along with my single core pc that severely limits my creativity.
What I am looking at getting is the following pc:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16883229360
My current concern is the Windows 8 that comes pre-installed on it (will I have issues with installing Carrara, DAZ, and/or other software) but what I really want to know is if this would be a good unit for rendering. It is a 'pre-set' pc so I would be limited to what it has (no upgrade options).
Would I be better off (for future enhancements) having on build to specs? If so this is uncharted territory for me. I am hoping that this PC will allow me to upgrade in the future.
Any suggestions, responses or advice would be greatly appreciated....but I by no means know enough about computers to be considered knowledgeable.
Thanks in advance
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Comments
In short, a good gamming PC will do just fine for rendering for any home user.
When it comes to these prebuilt systems from box stores and other places, what you need to be aware of is what inexpensice hardware is in there that helps keep the cost down. You should start looking up that system on the net and try to find out what parts are in it such as the brand of hard drive and what the motherboard is. Look around on line for reviews too.
DAROOOOOL! Sheesh, makes me wish i had a desk upon which to place a desktop machine...
Thanks Matty for the tip(s), I will do some (continued) research.
Does anyone have any experience with Windows 8 yet and DAZ|Stuidio, Carrara and Photoshop?
I have windows 8 and although I don't like it, DAZ installed no problem and works just fine, as far as PS, mine came with PSE 10 pre-installed.
Thanks for the input DV8, what don't you like about it? How do you like PSE10?
Once you get comfortable with the new interface or have modified it to your liking, I have not encountered any issue with any recent software (Studio, Poser, Vue, Photoshop) and Windows 8.
As an additional example, I have just put together a custom system with following parts:
1 x ASUS GeForce GTX 670 DirectCU II 980MHZ 2GB 6GHZ GDDR5 2xDVI HDMI DisplayPort PCI-E Video Card
1 x Intel Core i7 3930K 6 Core 12MB 3.2GHZ Hyperthreading Unlocked LGA2011 Processor No HSF
1 x Corsair Cooling Hydro Series H100I CPU Cooler System LGA1155 1156 1366 2011 AM2 AM3 FM1 & FM2
1 x ASUS P9X79 Pro ATX LGA2011 X79 DDR3 4PCI-E16 2PCI-E SATA3 USB3.0 SLI CrossFireX Audio Motherboard
2 x Corsair Vengeance Blue CMZ16GX3M4A1600C9B 16GB 4X4GB DDR3-1600 CL9-9-9-24 Dual Channel Memory Kit
1 x Corsair Obsidian Series 800D Full Tower Case EATX 5X5.25 4X3.5 Hotswappable 2X3.5INT No PS USB 1394
1 x Corsair Professional Series HX1050 1050W ATX 12V 87A 24PIN ATX 80PLUS Gold Modular Power Supply
2 x Bitfenix BFA-ACL-30BK15-RP Alchemy LED Connect Lit Strip 30CM 15 LEDs - Blue
1 x Seagate Barracuda 2TB 7200RPM SATA3 64MB Cache 3.5in Internal Hard Drive
1 x Intel 520 Series 120GB 2.5IN SSD MLC 25nm SATA3 Solid State Disk Drive Retail W/ Mounting Bracket
1 x ASUS BC-12B1ST Internal 12X Blu-Ray Reader & 16X DVD Writer Combo Drive SATA OEM
2 x Bitfenix Spectre BFF-BLF-14025B-RP 140MM Blue LED Case Fan 1000RPM 47.7CFM 20DBA 3/4 Pin
3 x Bitfenix Spectre Pro BFF-LPRO-12025B-RP 120mm Blue LED Case Fan 1200 RPM 56.22 CFM 18.9 dbA
This was a bit more expensive (clocks in at just under CAN$3000 with taxes, but is highly upgradeable.
Ciao
TD
Once you get comfortable with the new interface or have modified it to your liking, I have not encountered any issue with any recent software (Studio, Poser, Vue, Photoshop) and Windows 8.
As an additional example, I have just put together a custom system with following parts:
1 x ASUS GeForce GTX 670 DirectCU II 980MHZ 2GB 6GHZ GDDR5 2xDVI HDMI DisplayPort PCI-E Video Card
1 x Intel Core i7 3930K 6 Core 12MB 3.2GHZ Hyperthreading Unlocked LGA2011 Processor No HSF
1 x Corsair Cooling Hydro Series H100I CPU Cooler System LGA1155 1156 1366 2011 AM2 AM3 FM1 & FM2
1 x ASUS P9X79 Pro ATX LGA2011 X79 DDR3 4PCI-E16 2PCI-E SATA3 USB3.0 SLI CrossFireX Audio Motherboard
2 x Corsair Vengeance Blue CMZ16GX3M4A1600C9B 16GB 4X4GB DDR3-1600 CL9-9-9-24 Dual Channel Memory Kit
1 x Corsair Obsidian Series 800D Full Tower Case EATX 5X5.25 4X3.5 Hotswappable 2X3.5INT No PS USB 1394
1 x Corsair Professional Series HX1050 1050W ATX 12V 87A 24PIN ATX 80PLUS Gold Modular Power Supply
2 x Bitfenix BFA-ACL-30BK15-RP Alchemy LED Connect Lit Strip 30CM 15 LEDs - Blue
1 x Seagate Barracuda 2TB 7200RPM SATA3 64MB Cache 3.5in Internal Hard Drive
1 x Intel 520 Series 120GB 2.5IN SSD MLC 25nm SATA3 Solid State Disk Drive Retail W/ Mounting Bracket
1 x ASUS BC-12B1ST Internal 12X Blu-Ray Reader & 16X DVD Writer Combo Drive SATA OEM
2 x Bitfenix Spectre BFF-BLF-14025B-RP 140MM Blue LED Case Fan 1000RPM 47.7CFM 20DBA 3/4 Pin
3 x Bitfenix Spectre Pro BFF-LPRO-12025B-RP 120mm Blue LED Case Fan 1200 RPM 56.22 CFM 18.9 dbA
This was a bit more expensive (clocks in at just under CAN$3000 with taxes, but is highly upgradeable.
Ciao
TD
Thanks for the info on Windows8 that is good to hear. I was hearing that some people were having difficulties installing some 3d apps. It is good to here the ones I primarily use have been successfully installed.
If you don't mind me asking 'thd777', did you assemble yourself or have it done and where did you purchase?
Thanks for the input DV8, what don't you like about it? How do you like PSE10?
Well, it's minor things, it just seems less convenient....it opens to an app page and you have to then go to the desktop, the start menu is changed quite a bit so little things like calculator for example are harder to get to...
I'm not too experienced with Photoshop but I like PSE 10.
Well, it's minor things, it just seems less convenient....it opens to an app page and you have to then go to the desktop, the start menu is changed quite a bit so little things like calculator for example are harder to get to...
I'm not too experienced with Photoshop but I like PSE 10.
Would you say it mostly because of it being unfamiliar?.......I don't mean to sound like someone from a Windows focus group, just curious so I know what I may be jumping into.
that's a big part of it, it's geared toward apps and touch screen so using the mouse you have to go to corners for hidden menus to pop up, I'm pretty much used to it but I still prefer Windows 7.
I was going back and forth over do-it-yourself (have done it before) or having it assembled. In the end they just charged me $75 for the assembly and that comes with a 1 Year warranted on the assembly. Thus I opted for having it built. I went with NCIX.com. They have a store nearby and I was able to pick the system up there and save the shipping (This monster weights over 70 pounds). They have a great selection of parts at good prices. Their custom PC builder is easy to use and allowed you to put together a system to your exact specifications and budget. I used the Corsair Dream Machine as a staring point.
Regarding Windows 8: I think a lot of problems people have is because they changed the way many things are done from previous versions. One can either try to adapt to the new scheme or you can modify it. For example here you can find how to boot directly into the familiar desktop rather than metro: http://www.techrepublic.com/blog/window-on-windows/make-windows-8-boot-straight-to-the-desktop/6976
Ciao
TD
thd777, I am checking out NCIX.com but I am having difficulty finding the Custom PC Builder. Can you help me locate it?
On the main page, left side is a box title "Shop departments". In there click on "Custom PC". On the following page you can choose different categories of PCs. I choose "Gaming Systems" and then "Extreme Gaming". Then you choose "customize it" from the base model that fits your need/budget. Then you can modify from there.
Ciao
TD
ahhhhh, the custom pc builder is not available via the USA part of the site only Canada's. I will have to see if I can use the info from the Canada site to put something together on the USA site. Thanks thd777
I see. I did not know that. But, yes, you can certainly built a PC on the Canada site and then order the parts via a US Store if you want to put it together yourself. http://www.cyberpowerpc.com/category/configurator/ is another option, they are US based if I recall correctly.
TD
Find out what motherboard it has first. I lot of these machine have good components but crap boards.
Yes, good advice. The motherboard is crucial. For my system I went with the ASUS P9X79 Pro ATX for several reasons:
- It supports up to 64 Gb of quad channel RAM (I am starting with 32 Gb)
- It has slots fro up to three full size graphic cards
- It has ASUS SSD cache built in (I use a 120 GB SSD as cache for the main hard drive. This provide a nice speed boost.
- It has excellent control software and bios.
- It has plenty of SATA ports and USB3 connectors.
Ciao
TD
I would assume that if it doesn't list details on the motherboard it is most likely (as you said) crap.
All the details say about the motherboard are "Inter x79"....nothing more.
Well, the general specs given for the motherboard (number of dimm slots, expansion slots, etc.) are not bad and the Intel X79 chip set is in my opinion quite nice. But there are big differences in built quality (for example type and number of heat sinks, fan ports, etc) and with out knowing the brand and type one just can't tell. At that price I doubt it is a high end ASUS board (My ASUS P9X79 Pro ATX has a price tag of about $300 by itself. I know sounds like a lot, but check out http://www.asus.com/Motherboard/P9X79_PRO/ and you can see why).
Ciao
TD
Yeah that and it has windows 8 which for me is a big nono. I hate it but lets not turn this into a windows hate thread.
I run a small computer shop and I have gotten plenty of cyber power pc towers and from my experience the boards are never up to snuff.
It is always cheaper to have someone build a rig to your specifications and needs.
You may also want to do some research and look up some how to videos on yourtube that show you how to build your own rigs. Its really not that hard. The most risky part these days is putting the pin-less processors on the board. I have friends that have killed thousand dollar machines by place the cpu incorrectly on the board.
There are plenty of stores out there that if you ask they will mount the cpu for you and ship it out.
I prefer AMD to intel but that is just my personal preference. I have had more intel machines bottle neck on me than AMD machines. Right now I am looking to upgrade my current 3.6 gig Octo core to the new 4 gig Octo core.
I know that the i7 processor is pretty bad a$$ but how much does the i7 processor cut down on render times compaired to an i5 processor?
Can anyone explain the difference for 3d rendering that I would see between the two?
I am begining to see that (obviously) the i7 really 'boosts' the cost.
...holee carp looks like a pretty nice system for the price. Costs about what I paid for the individual components (sans display) for my build which "only" has 12GB. and a 2.4gHz i7.
The maximum support of 64GB is just too cool (mine can only handle up to 24). Finally some competition for the ultra expensive MacPro in that department.
I'd think about "downgrading:" to Win7 as it is more proven (and for my purposes, has a more elegant look and feel than 8's IPad style UI). If you are not going to do a lot (or any) gaming I'd swap out the keyboard for a more conventional one (one of the reviews mentioned that it is rather flimsy).
My one concern is the cooling as I don't see any mention of it. If it just has the stock Intel cooler you may want to swap that out for an aftermarket one considering the processor's speed. Another review I read there mentions that the fans are rather noisy. My Antec P-193 has five fans (including a large one on the side panel by the GPU) and is whisper quiet. Same for the PSU (750W) and aftermarket cooler I installed.
I just checked the model on the CyberpowerPC site and apparently the one at Newegg is most likely a closeout deal as it is discontinued.The closest in price and specs is the 3000 (1,185$) but it supports 32 not 64 GB.
The first one I saw that supports 64 GB is the Infinity 8800 Pro SE which uses the ASUS P9X79 MB that has 8 memory slots. and comes with 16 GB of Corsair DDR3 1600mHz dual channel memory (for an extra 29$ this can be upgraded to Quad Channel). Unfortunately the price is a bit more at just a shade over 1,500$ If you intend to upgrade memory to such obscene levels this would be a good choice.
http://www.cyberpowerpc.com/system/CyberPower_Gamer_Infinity_8800_Pro_SE/
...an i7 is hyperthreading while most i5s are not (you have to shop around a bit to get the right one). Therefore you get twice the processing threads (effectively cores) to share the rendering load.
Looking at custom building.....
Is there a significant advantage to building with 2 "NVIDIA GeForce GTX 660 - 2GB" cards?
I am not planning to play games on the PC I will build only 3d rendering and other graphics.
...an i7 is hyperthreading while most i5s are not (you have to shop around a bit to get the right one). Therefore you get twice the processing threads (effectively cores) to share the rendering load.
Yes, hyperthreading is one of the differences between i7 and i5. However it is important to understand that hyperthreading does not magically double your CPU power. It simply makes think much more efficient via providing the data in multiple streams thereby avoiding processor/core downtime. So a quad-core with hyperthreading is not equivalent to having 8 real cores. In any case, the speed-boost from hyperthreading is significant. Another advantage of i7 processors is the generally larger internal cache.
You can see the speed differences between the different processors at http://www.cpubenchmark.net/high_end_cpus.html
Ciao
TD
For most 3D graphics programs the second won't do anything as they are only used for the display. The exception is if you use programs that are capable of GPU rendering, for example Luxrender or Octane. In that case the second card is useful because you can use one card to drive the display to keep it fluid and the other one for rendering (or both for rendering to have more power). I went with one card but made sure that the motherboard supports additional cards (up to three in my case) so that I can add cards as needed in the future.
Ciao
TD
As powerful as video cards today have gotten I see no real advantage in building an SLI rig.
I think its just better to get one of these.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814127698
Here's a first look at one build:
Intel Z77 Core i5/i7
1 x Case ( NZXT Phantom 410 Gaming Case - Black )
1 x Noise Reduction ( Basic - iBUYPOWER Harmony SRS Sound Reduction System - Reduce System Noise )
1 x Processor ( Intel® Core™ i7-3770K Processor (4x 3.50GHz/8MB L3 Cache) - Intel Core i7-3770K )
1 x Processor Cooling ( Liquid CPU Cooling System [SOCKET-1155] - ARC Dual Silent High Performance Fan Upgrade (Push-Pull Airflow) )
1 x Memory ( 16 GB [8 GB x2] DDR3-1600 Memory Module - Corsair Vengeance )
1 x Video Card ( NVIDIA GeForce GTX 660 - 2GB - Single Card )
1 x Video Card Brand ( Major Brand Powered by AMD or NVIDIA )
1 x Motherboard ( ASUS P8Z77-V LX )
1 x Intel Smart Response Technology ( SSD Cache - 64 GB ADATA SP900 SSD )
1 x Power Supply ( 750 Watt - Corsair CX750 )
1 x Primary Hard Drive ( 2 TB HARD DRIVE -- 64M Cache, 7200rpm, 6.0Gb/s - Single Drive )
1 x Optical Drive ( 24X Dual Format/Double Layer DVD±R/±RW + CD-R/RW Drive - Black )
1 x Sound Card ( 3D Premium Surround Sound Onboard )
1 x Network Card ( Onboard LAN Network (Gb or 10/100) )
1 x Operating System ( Microsoft Windows 7 Home Premium + Office Starter 2010 (Includes basic versions of Word and Excel) - 64-Bit )
I don't think that the motherboard will accept more than one graphics card.
Any suggestions to what is listed and/or a motherboard?
Again, this is a first go around not my final buy.......looking for recommendations.
...only for VRAM purposes (unless you are planning to use it as a gaming rig, however, according to the comments the 660 will not be able to handle many of the newest games).
If you just want more VRAM there are nVidia GPUs (like the 670 which is next up on the GPU food chain) with 2GB GDDR5. The 690 has 5GB DDR5 but costs 1,000$ (at that price you are better off getting the new Quadro K4000 for 1,250$ which is built on the Kepler technology, has 768 CUDA thread and 3GB of DDR5 which consumed a paltry 80W of power) whereas the 670 is 349$ (Newegg).
Workstation GPUs tend to be more durable and have longer service lives than mass market ones. I was almost considering a Quadro4000 for my build and now will look to upgrade to the K2000 which actually has more CUDA cores than the more expensive Fermi 4000, the same memory specs and consumes about a third of the power a t peak performance - 599$) when I can afford it.
...well it is listed as having 3 PCI slots so I would think it could handle more than 1 GPU However it says nothing about Crossfire technology. Also it only supports Dual Channel memory configuration. In comparison my old ASUS AT-6 also has 3 PCI 2.0 Express slots and supports up to 24GB RAM in Tri channel mode (Tri and Quad Channel support offers a "fatter" pipeline between memory and the CPU which translates to faster communication thus improved performance). Unfortunately the PT6 is now "legacy" hardware.
While a bit more expensive (224$) I would look at the ASUS P9X79 LE LGA 2011 which is a quad channel board that can support up to 64GB RAM and 3 PCI 3.0 slots) . That was around the price my PT-6 Deluxe cost me when I purchased it.