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I'm curious...Does anyone know how many active users there are for Carrara right now? I'm wondering if it's only a few thousand, or maybe even a few hundred. Only reason I say that is it hasn't been advertised on the website as far as I know.
Maybe if we tried to do crowd funding the crowd would say "What's Carrara?"
Carrara, Bryce, Hexagon all featured on the website before the last redesign. Now, nothing that isn't Studio.
The Carrara forum is reasonably active, but mostly it's the same familiar faces. It's hard to say how many people lurk but don't post, or use but don't buy. Carrara people do have a reputation for being self sufficient -- they'll make something themselves in preference to buying a ready made solution from the store (even though there's a thread pointing out how much stuff they do buy).
Everything in my store comes with both a native Carrara version and a native Studio version. So far I haven't made a set that's Carrara only or Studio only, so I don't have any hard numbers to suggest what proportion of people are buying for what program. However, us PAs do talk to each other (gasp!), and I know that my sales numbers don't vary wildly from other PAs selling similar sets for Studio only. Add to that 9/10 for the feedback I get is from Studio users. So I surmise that Carrara probably accounts for only a handful of sales, at least during the crucial first week.
I wouldn't go as far as saying that Carrara is being killed off by DAZ but I think the overall outcome of the circumstances DAZ is in is that Carrara is dead or dying.
One of the problems Carrara has is that it gets no advertising any more (that I see, anyway) and is only really spoken about among DAZ software users. That is the pity because at one time Carrara was advertised with beautiful landscape renders of forests and cliffs to rival Vue's offerings of those days. The cover box of version 5 even, was a lovely work of art. Magazines devoted to 3D included tutorials and Question and Answer replies on how to use this or that feature. In those days Carrara stood alongside Truespace and even Cinema 4D as a respectable option for anyone getting interested in the 3D hobby, as I was. None of those programs were inexpensive either - buying them was quite an investment. The Carrara handbook stood alongside books on Maya in the larger bookstores.
Truespace was killed by Microsoft and Cinema 4D headed for the stratosphere, price-wise (and is full of features to justify the cost). Vue forged ahead - always onward. Blender as far as I can remember wasn't attracting users the way it does today - some landmark animations demonstrated its power to the masses and to professionals alike. I can only speak for myself alone but in those days Blender wasn't in the running when I was evaluating software. Other options that existed, such as Animation Master are now very obscure, I think. Quidam came and went. Iclone came and is here to stay.
Apart from not having a presence anymore outside the world of DAZ, Carrara suffers from being thought of as a DAZ Studio alternative or companion, in my view. I mean, if somone wanted to embark on an animation that is totally their own work, Carrara has all the tools to do it. But the thinking seems to prevail that DAZ and Poser assets need to be involved. Disney's 'Frozen' doesn't use bought content, I suspect. Yes, I know, Disney compared to a one-person animator at the kitchen table is a ludicrous comparison but the point is that Carrara can model, rig, texture, animate and render all in one package. It is a creative option for a 3D hobbyist at a very low price and it doesn't need a PC run by a nuclear power plant to do its stuff.
Anyone wanting to create their own, from scratch, animations could obviously use Blender for free and anyone with good Blender skills would always choose it over Carrara. But someone with no Blender or Carrara skills might find Carrara to be an easier option to start with.
And, for what it's worth, I think DAZ and Poser figures don't look at all bad animated and rendered in Carrara.
No advertising, no development. What exactly would they have to do to constitute killing it off?
I was giving the benefit of the doubt - they're possibly just letting it die in the next room rather than having sat round to agree to kill it.
Well someone, can't remember the name, has claimed twice now in these forums that they recently talked to DAZ 3D Support and DAZ Support said unequivocally that there was no development being done on Carrara so take that to mean what you will about the future of Carrara.
It costs next to nothing to shelve development and continue to sell it and products that can be used with it cheap to those that want to use Carrara, so I doubt you'll see it go opensource because that likely would mean extra staff to coordinate development and field support questions even if they state explicitly they won't do that on making it opensource you know the questions are going to come.
I'd love it if DAZ Studio were made open source. I'd fix so many bugs that are plaguing it (and currently making it almost impossible for me to use). I'd also speed it up in certain areas. Any code that uses closed source libraries can be shipped as dll's. And for people worried about support for new generations of characters, DAZ would still control the main source repository. Nothing would change on their end. It would just allow the community to provide bug fixes, improvements and extra functionality, but still under DAZ's control. For anything they don't want to add in, people can create their own forks.
The only possible issue is that some closed source libraries specify that they cannot be used in open source project, even if packaged in a dll. I know Microsoft has code samples and libraries that stipulate as much.
What is it that Daz Studio is doing that make it impossible for you to use?
the crowdfunding option with them retaining ownership is a possible alternative.
sad to say I would actually donate some myself on a fortnightly basis, prob not much but if more did it would add up, just to keep some development alive, I do not like a subscription model at all and would run screaming to Blender but voluntary support yes, some of the small change I save not buying any genesis 8 content could go there or the pittance I get from Google ADsence on Youtube.
Except that there would be multiple versions of DS available and people would expect support from DAZ about those. Given that they're not even making their older versions available right now, I doubt they would want that....
I loathe blender for this reason. I avoid keyboard shortcuts with any app as I dislike them. I can use the mouse and create most anything in 3DSMax without key shortcuts
Exactly. I would customize Blender if I could figure out what does what.
Same here. node based systems give me a migraine. One of the things I hated about Poser.
As for the topic, I don't feel carrara should be open source, then again I don't feel any app should be open source. I use carrara often, and would love to see it updated.
Regarding Blender, I agree that I hate keyboard shortcuts IF there's no alternative. I'm always jumping between applications, and guaranteed I'll start using keyboard shortcuts from the previous app that do weird things in the new app.
However...
The days when Blender was all keyboard shortcuts is pretty much over. It now comes with a ton of menu items that cover the vast majority of stuff most people need to do.
And honestly, while the thought of Python scripting might scare some away, in most cases it's just a copy and paste of existing code into the built-in text editor to automate steps for you. And you can make the new script show up as a button very easily. You certainly don't need it, but it's a great tool to make life even simpler.
I rarely use keyboard shortcuts in Blender, even though I've used it for years. I'm always going to the menu items and buttons.
Personally I don't care what people use, just trying to provide alternatives that can make life much easier.
For example, I just made this simple house in Blender, and now I'm texturing in Substance Painter. You can knock stuff like this out very quickly.
BTW, have you guys who've used Substance Painter used the "particles" brushes for making incredibly awesome drips and stuff? Wow, I love it.
In fact, sometimes Carrara can be obtained for much more than that.
I think I got it for perhaps $15.
I really like the render engine in Carrera. Does anyone know the origin of that render engine? I would love to see it in DS along with the great render engines already available there.
Opps!!!
I meant, much less than that.
..well for one I am dyslexic and to me, node based systems look like the contents of a bowl of udon that was spilled on the floor.
...to make it work exactly like Hexagon, Carrara, or Daz would mean having to mess around with coding.
...coming from both a traditional office as well as traditional art background I feel it is totally the opposite.
The last thing I want to do when performing production typing or working in spreadsheets is move my hands away from the keyboard. I always thought WordPerfect had the best solution by using the function keys as hotkeys along with the Shift, CTRL, and ALT (and they gave you a handy template guide that fit over the keys).
As to creating art, I find a pointer based UI to be much more "natural" for moving around the workspace and manipulating items/posing (I also use a professional trackball instead of a mouse which has much finer control). For example in Daz, I often use the "Active Pose" to fine tune posing and manipulators for moving items rather than the sliders.
...
...this is sarcasm I hope.
...which is something I have been touting all along. This is why I prefer Hexagon as it is a dedicated modelling tool (Modo was once that, even Blender a at one time, but both eventually went the "Swiss Army Knife" route). I would rather have a suite of dedicated software that bridge between each other than an "everything under one roof" programme as with the latter, compromises need to be made to keep it from becoming too complex and unwieldy (and where commercial software is concerned, too expensive)
I quit CG studies back in the 80s because back then everything required had to be coded. At the time I was still a traditional artist but saw that CG had a tonne of promise (particularly for the graphic publishing media such as comic books and graphic novels as well as animation). Back then I dreamed of software like Painter, Carrara, and Daz that approached the process more from an artist's, rather than a programmer's point of view. The last thing I wish to go back to these days is coding again.
@ Marcus Severus
...I actually have a copy of Truspace 7.1. Not happy with MS's decision to kill it.
Speaking of "dead software", anyone remember Eovia's Amapi?
Hexagon was sort-of sone of Amapi, with Amapi itself getting some more advanced features. It went to eFrontier, who I think released one version (the oen that was being developed when Eovia shut up shop, presumably)
Thank you!!
I really, really wish that more people understood this
before calling for"bridges" and "Genesis Support " in other programs.
A one hundred percent fully functional genesis figure will only ever happen inside
DAZ studio.
People wanting to use Genesis outside of studio, need to be prepared for compromise,extra labor
and/or loss of native features ( like HD morphs etc.).
I sort of disagree with that business model although I can't deny that is the current technical limitation. Maybe DAZ 3D could massively expand their market place by adding DAZ Studio format support to Unity 3D, UE4, and Blender. Unity 3D and UE4 in particular. In fact alot of what DAZ Studio does those programs already does, so basically they'd need to port the way all those morphs, jcms, mcms and such work natively in those programs. That woud be nice as FBX exports always seem to mess things up in one way or another although I admit even the FBX format has been much improved the last couple of years.
Carrara, as of version 8.5, does much of this as well; there are some known issues with Autofit, but the underlying code is in place in the software.
...yeah that was Amapi 7.5 before SM pulled the plug on it. Nice modeller, and like you mention, more advanced features. Seemed to be more stable compared to Hexagon as well. Too bad it is no longer available.
So I've hit YET ANOTHER problem that no modern program seemed to fix ... can be solved by Carrara.
Trying to bake normals from displacement maps, and everything just failed hard. Except Carrara (with Baker plugin).
Currently, today, not in some speculative future world with unlimited tech resources, Michael/Victoria 1-4, Genesis, Genesis 2, Posette, Dork, Jesse, James, Sydney, Simon, and Tera Yuki open natively in Carrara where they can be customized to heart's content. Alternativey, currently, today, these figures and Genesis 3 and G8F can be bridged to Hexagon for custom morphs with one click and sent back with auto prompt to add the morph. Depending upon Daz's chocies regarding Hexagon and othe programs (Carrara is not being developed currently), this level of convenience will be (future tense) lost. I don't know or care about 100% compatibility, whatever that means, I know or care about preserving CURRENT functionality. The 100% standard is a straw man.
If Blender aficianaos are saying a bridge to Blender can't or won't be done because Daz would never rely on a 3rd party's cooperation for compatibility (or fill in any other objection), then that goes in the disadvantage list for Blender. Full stop. It doesn't mean Daz can't do bridges. Yes, Daz can because Daz does now. And, some of us really like that level of convenience. Maybe some readers don't care about that level of convenience, and I'm glad that view can be expressed here. But it doesn't mean Daz can't choose to preserve it if it is a priority. Saying Daz can't choose to do it is just conflating the priorities of Blender users with what can be done.
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