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Aprication documents or wiki need to be written to serch things easy.
Think about user who start daz studio. The user may load figures.
tweak as they like, after that may hope save his first work. go to file menu.
Then find there are many options about saving.
If daz documents (wiki and old wiki) or DAZ program of You tube is useful,
show the link where is clear documents about each saving option of current ds 4.6.
if you can find , tell me how you serch them.
After 5 minutes, most of user feel daz guide about aprication are perfectly
missing true functionality and un-useful about the current version of ds.
No one hope to play serching web link game in flood of wip documents,
when find the most basic usage about aprication.
My suggesiton is simple. daz should show the schedule about daz WIP documents
every month about each week.
=================
then I really feel strange why daz like to tweak the section of WIP wiki when someone complain?
why DAZ can not do it before someone ask?
This version (2013/06/03 06:15) is a Draft.
http://docs.daz3d.com/doku.php/public/software/dazstudio/4/referenceguide/interface/action/index/start
I undersatnd DAZ feel shame about luck of documents, so that I need to say complain in forum.
I'm guessing they intended for that free series of tutorial videos available on this site to be the DAZ Studio 4x documentation.
I HATE video tutorials, BTW. You have to sit through 8 minutes of crap just to find out one 5-second long tidbit, and then if it's something you can't remember off your head and you suck at note taking like me because you're too damned slow, then you have to replay said video or 5 second clip over and over again when you need the reference, which usually eats up a crapton more RAM than a simple PDF document.
Even a tut in jpeg or png form is far preferrable to me to a video. For me the ONLY use for video tuts is as an absolute last resort when I'm too stupid to find the drop-down menu item or icon I really need.
Ideally I think all video tuts should also come in a PDF form-- or at least jpeg.
Do you mean this? http://docs.daz3d.com/doku.php/public/software/dazstudio/4/referenceguide/interface/main_menu_bar/default_advanced/file/save_as/start
Took a minute or so clicking through the document section from the link I provided over the weekend in an earlier post in this thread.
hi sir, then you really check it the foolish link ^^?
I know clear you serch around it , then it is still wip.
because you need to serch around link.
there is no real useful document . they just make link.
any reall knowledge user need can not get from your link.
you are seem so clever guy ,that you can understand wihtout any document.
just see linked save many option as same as file menu ^^
I hope you reply and mention how you feel the link documents about you show me.
Sir please ^^
Or you can expect daz correct your linked so foolish documents untill you asnwer my quesiton.
Now ds 4.5 change the way to save assets and preset by duf and DSON.
there are many things which user need to know clear, when use daz save option.
what is property preset, scene subset ? where is clear difference?
when you poze file, you may need to understand many option.
when you save figure, how each file are saved for what puropse?
the first saved file are for what?
what record if you save modified assets?
Though you know already, and I know them already.
such foolish documents are never be recognized as official manuall of product aprication.
I think, the link are no need to show us if it keep the current status forever.
Daz know it. so that it is draft. then some daz worker may tweak today,
who find this topic.
we can easy find all save type when we select file menu.
my quesiton is,
where is clear documents about each saving option of current ds 4.6?
But you show me the link which memorize every saving option name with short cut.
No one need such foolis un useful document. because already these option are shown in file menu.
so that user need to undersatnd about each option.
see other documents
http://docs.daz3d.com/doku.php/public/software/dazstudio/4/userguide/saving_importing_and_exporting/start
it is userguide which is expected to show save, import , and export with simple clear documents.
when I want to understand saving or export , at first I will check it.
this is real joke.
Are you joking me?
It is really funny and exciting daz work with real time for this topic.
but Sir you may better not hope daz finish all work today.Good night .
This version (2013/06/03 10:04) is a Draft.
work hard as you best DAZ
I am really disappointed the way.
daz seem like child because untill some user complain about their luck about manuall
do not tweak them.
But I hope DAZ do not hurry up without make good documents
the more you hurry, you can not do good work. Many water may leak by crash work.
There seems to be a language barrier happening here, another problem when video content is in English only.
Another reason to have a written Manual that can be translated would be helpful in this situation.
Before this gets locked I would like to make a small suggestion. If you post an answer to a question consider adding a line to your post to the effect of, "I give this information freely to the members of the forum and allow it to be copied and reprinted in any way." This way we might be able to put together a basic manual.
Anything that would lead to a relatively definitive document/set of documents should be supported by Daz management. Opening up the wiki for user input as someone previously suggested would definitely be a step in the right direction. A simple well worded disclaimer would give Daz legal protection, should someone post incorrect/misleading info whether on purpose or not.
No no there is no language barrier.
even though it is written by my country language,
such quick modification has no meaning, or DAZ do not understand how to wirte manuall.
Click here to generate a preset that contains information for the AABBBBB in the scene.
and lets check the date of modify.
it is joke for me.
I hope user may make wiki. DAZ may support it. I hope to translate it.
but DAZ need to finish their wiki. it should be most reliable documents . it is daz duty.
I understand if I keep conversation about user wiki, voluntter or Admin need to rock topic,
so that I hope he only delete my replys. I do not care at all.
then keep conversation how to bulid user Wiki by user.
As far as a Wiki is concerned I'm afraid it may have to be unofficial and hosted off site. It's a great idea as some have suggested but would need constant attention and editing. You would have to put some time aside to search this forum and link pertinent info.
It would be great if someone has the time but an easier solution would be to have DAZ set it up with a disclaimer as has been suggested.
Kitakoredaz: I think you misunderstand the intent with which that is done, it's probably Rob adding at least the basics of whatever topic is requested, but he does that on his own spare time and isn't paid to do it. In essence that is not different from what volunteers do on the forum, except with more information. The DAZ3D management is apparently not much interested in setting aside a reasonable amount of money to fund a complete manual. We've had two efforts for the DS4 version (one paid, and one wiki idea already) and they both substantially failed. At this point I wonder if we shouldn't start a Kickstarter campaign, perhaps broken down by chapter, so we can finally have a comprehensive manual.
Actually, I worked for DAZ as a contractor for about 3 months, and most of the wiki pages in the "reference manual" were originally written by me... though some of the content has been removed since then, and I've never liked the way DAZ decided to organize it. (Having to dig down into the GUI and look under "tabs" to find anything about Shader Mixer makes no sense to me.)
At the end of the three months, DAZ told me they couldn't keep working with me unless I could move to Utah, and a little while after that they let me know that there was no money to hire anyone full time anyway. I've moved on to other employment.
My intent when I worked for them was to use a wiki system that would have allowed the user to generate a PDF of as much of the manual as they wanted, on demand. Individual pages would be flagged when they changed or were updated. Any video tutorials would have been captioned and searchable. Big ideas... no follow-through. I wish things had gone differently.
My understanding is that the current documentation coordinator does accept drafts of documentation for the wiki, if it's in the format DAZ wants. Other than that, the best we can hope for is that some of our content creators continue to develop tutorials and sell them in the store... and that others continue to help one another and provide support here in the forum, or elsewhere.
The problem with having anyone outside DAZ HQ working on the manual is that there are so many things that only the developers know. It's possible to work out what many features do with enough trial and error, but that's an expensive way to do research for documentation. I found that even when I worked for them, it was hard to get information about much of the functionality until I went out to Draper for a week. (I literally had to follow one developer around through the building until he agreed to sit down and answer my questions.) So a Kickstarter would need to take into account either hiring someone local to DAZ HQ, or paying for them to stay within easy reach of the office, and we'd need backing from DAZ to make sure the tech writer had enough access to the developers.
I'm hoping DAZ puts what they have in these and other updated info into a PDF file. It sounds like where they went wrong is making a Wiki that takes a lot of drilling down to find stuff when users seem to want something they can print out and look at when not online
And for folks wondering about render settings, Adam's great tips and script which will help you get to where you want to go with your renders in less time:
http://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/16085/
4 clicks through essentially empty pages is not an effective organization for a manual. The information on their wiki pages is so light that it is mostly white space. Most of the time the link is just empty. So I doubt anyone really uses it. It would be interesting to see the page views of the wiki compared to the forum. I imagine that they taper off very quickly after just 2 clicks in.
Just noticed that a couple DAZ YouTube videos I looked at have Closed Caption subtitles in them and YouTube has the new beta translate feature for them. So videos are less of a problem now.
Just noticed that a couple DAZ YouTube videos I looked at have Closed Caption subtitles in them and YouTube has the new beta translate feature for them. So videos are less of a problem now.
The automated closed captions aren't always that great, but when DS4 first came out, I did manually subtitle quite a few of the demo videos. Those should translate better, too.
Just noticed that a couple DAZ YouTube videos I looked at have Closed Caption subtitles in them and YouTube has the new beta translate feature for them. So videos are less of a problem now.
Really? I mean what difference does that make. Google translate barely cuts it with Grammatical errors in abundance, my suggestion was more rhetorical than practical and usually written Manuals are translated a lot better in practice.
If you are dead set on proving your point that a Manual is unnecessary and all the info one needs should be searched and viewed fine, you have your opinion and I have mine and as far as I'm concerned my mind hasn't changed on this subject, it's time for a better reference be it a Manual or a well maintained Wiki.
I think it would be worthwhile to have a common place to start putting stuff, anyway. If DAZ likes it, they can pull stuff back into their own wiki. Looks like this could be used as a starting point:
http://3d.wikia.com/wiki/Daz_Studio
What do we want for main topic areas? The usual top level division is between a "User's Guide" (which has a more tutorial structure, based on what tasks users are trying to complete) and a "Reference Guide" (which documents each feature), with cross links between the two as appropriate.
I won't have much time to contribute until later this summer, but I will try to add to it if we can get a community effort going.
I couldn't agree more, and thank's for trying(although thing's didn't work out for you when they put you on creating the Manual), you and Richard and Adam are the Stalwart's of this community, A Well Deserved THANK's for all you folk's and others not mentioned do for us User's.
Would the existing version 3 manual make a good starting point?
For the Reference Guide section, perhaps it might make sense to split it into the pieces that the user can readily see initially. For example, each pane (Scene, Parameters, Surfaces (color), Content Library, etc.) could have a section (or they could be a subsection of a "Panes" section). The menu could have a section, which would rather obviously be broken down by the various menus and menu items. Then you can have all the miscellaneous things like a section about viewports that explains the controls in each.
For the User's Guide tutorial-ish section, perhaps it could be broken down into common tasks such as loading and saving a scene, locating and adding content to it, posing, materials, lighting, etc. with the more common things first and the more complex or less-used things like how to back everything up and restore on a new PC towards the end.
I went ahead and registered an account and chose to follow that Wiki in hopes you will get it off the ground, I hope it takes off, once again thank's.
If I can I'll try to help and hope others will chip in.
Really? I mean what difference does that make. Google translate barely cuts it with Grammatical errors in abundance, my suggestion was more rhetorical than practical and usually written Manuals are translated a lot better in practice.
If you are dead set on proving your point that a Manual is unnecessary and all the info one needs should be searched and viewed fine, you have your opinion and I have mine and as far as I'm concerned my mind hasn't changed on this subject, it's time for a better reference be it a Manual or a well maintained Wiki.
If someone is going to try translating a manual, they might go the Google route anyway. It's just another option for the documentation that does exist.