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Post Your Renders - #4: A New Hope

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  • DartanbeckDartanbeck Posts: 21,624
    edited December 1969

    Why do you do it. Is it that much better? or is it just fun!
    I should really try Blender one day. Too busy right now. Out of curiosity, have you ever seen my scrap movie? Just a Bit of Fun was a test project after I bought the Home Movie Platinum Suite of Vegas. Just put a bunch of test renders of avi clips to some music in a semblance of a storyline. It's just for fun. This one is an ad for my Millennium Dragon Animations pack at Daz. Haven't seen you in a while.

  • evilproducerevilproducer Posts: 9,050
    edited February 2013

    Here's Garstor's crushed sapphire shader that he had the audacity to start in another program. ;-) He offered to let us play with it, and this is what I came up with.


    The biggest changes were getting rid of the reflection in favor of a stonger specular effect. To achieve this I just put a 1-100 slider in the Highlight and Shininess shader channels and adjusted the Highlight to 100% and the Shininess down to 3%. The texture map in the bump channel does the job of breaking the specular effect up. I also copied and pasted the color texture map into the translucency channel and added refraction using Sapphire as the Index of Refraction preset (though for some reason it shows as 80% Sugar Water).


    Here's the render using just plain lights in Carrara. One spot light providing back light, and two from the right and left providing highlights. I also had a torus shape light parented to the camera for fill.


    No soft shadows. No GI. No Caustics. Only postwork was to add DOF.

    Picture_3.png
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    Picture_2.png
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    Picture_1.png
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    saphire-woman.jpg
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    Post edited by evilproducer on
  • DartanbeckDartanbeck Posts: 21,624
    edited February 2013

    I really like it. That's a neat shader. I wonder what a nice, light blue SSS would do for it? This is one situation where I think we'd see the huge difference between real SSS and fake via glow channel - due to its transparency.

    Edit: I'd also be interested in the idea of using that color map in the bump or displacement instead of the super-crushed normal. Better yet, use a mask to allow portions of the normal to come through in places as imperfections in the crystal - with perhaps a tinge of hue imbalance in those spots. Dirty green in some spots and an oxidized brown in others, and finally true clear in some others.

    Post edited by Dartanbeck on
  • DartanbeckDartanbeck Posts: 21,624
    edited February 2013

    This is also a classic example of where we need to keep an eye on over-using reflection - if there is such a thing. But often times we see folks using reflection by accident. What I mean by this is that the specular settings, as EP explains above, can often times give the render engine a break from reflections - allowing far lesser amount of reflection to pull nearly the same weight. Great job with that shader! Edit:
    And also, as EP justifies his use of 3% on the shininess - this is because raising the shininess value sharpens the specular angle, creating a nice shine. But with his bump being where it is, he was able to allow his material to remain the way nature intended it to be - very even spread of light - and the bump takes over to sharpen the specular angle creating his nice shine effect.
    Again... very well done!

    Post edited by Dartanbeck on
  • evilproducerevilproducer Posts: 9,050
    edited December 1969

    Dartanbeck said:
    I really like it. That's a neat shader. I wonder what a nice, light blue SSS would do for it? This is one situation where I think we'd see the huge difference between real SSS and fake via glow channel - due to its transparency.


    I don't know if you really need SSS. The bump breaks up the light nicely. I could try a test. I'd have to rebuild the scene, as I just saved the shader.

  • evilproducerevilproducer Posts: 9,050
    edited December 1969

    Dartanbeck said:
    This is also a classic example of where we need to keep an eye on over-using reflection - if there is such a thing. But often times we see folks using reflection by accident. What I mean by this is that the specular settings, as EP explains above, can often times give the render engine a break from reflections - allowing far lesser amount of reflection to pull nearly the same weight. Great job with that shader!


    Yes! I agree 100% The bump broke up any reflections that were there and increased the render time quite a bit. It still took longer than I'm used to with the translucency and the refraction playing such a prominent role. Reflection was a killer!

  • DartanbeckDartanbeck Posts: 21,624
    edited December 1969

    no need - I was just curious. the sss, I was thinking, would add density to the crystal. Lesser to none being a very clear stone - increasing amounts to indicate solidity. Again, with your bump and refraction, you really don't need it - 'twas just a thought is all.

  • DartanbeckDartanbeck Posts: 21,624
    edited February 2013

    evilproducer said:

    Yes! I agree 100% The bump broke up any reflections that were there and increased the render time quite a bit. It still took longer than I'm used to with the translucency and the refraction playing such a prominent role. Reflection was a killer!
    Reflection is a killer and, in this situation, translucency is nearly imperative. The effect could be 'faked' using ambiance, but the real thing is more reliable in more situations.
    Post edited by Dartanbeck on
  • evilproducerevilproducer Posts: 9,050
    edited December 1969

    Dartanbeck said:

    Edit: I'd also be interested in the idea of using that color map in the bump or displacement instead of the super-crushed normal. Better yet, use a mask to allow portions of the normal to come through in places as imperfections in the crystal - with perhaps a tinge of hue imbalance in those spots. Dirty green in some spots and an oxidized brown in others, and finally true clear in some others.


    The normal map is a misnomer in my case. I use C7 Pro which can only use a Normal map as a Normal map with the aid of a plugin. In my case, it takes the normal map, and uses it as a simple bump map.

    To get the clear and stuff, you'd need to use the color map in the transparency channel. You might get some interesting effects using it in the absorption and in-scattering slots as well.


    Looking at the color map, there's no reason you really have to use it, as the cellular and noise functions should be up to the task as well.

  • DartanbeckDartanbeck Posts: 21,624
    edited February 2013

    Holy cow! She's not even transparent! Now that took a second look to discover!
    Nice hint of glow - nearly undetectable, but the effect comes off nice... Really nice job EP!

    Post edited by Dartanbeck on
  • evilproducerevilproducer Posts: 9,050
    edited February 2013

    Dartanbeck said:
    Holy cow! She's not even transparent! Now that took a second look to discover!
    Nice hint of glow - nearly undetectable, but the effect comes off nice... Really nice job EP!


    No glow channel either. Just translucency and refraction, though I'm not sure if it's doing anything without transparency.


    Edited to add: I did hide the teeth, gums, tongue, inner mouth and eyelashes. The mouth related parts of the mesh caused a shadow artifact and the model looked more like a statue without the eyelashes.

    Post edited by evilproducer on
  • evilproducerevilproducer Posts: 9,050
    edited December 1969

    I wonder what it would look like if I made the eyes normal looking? Hmmm...

  • GarstorGarstor Posts: 1,411
    edited December 1969

    Koukotsu said:
    It's basically just a fast approximation of full indirect lighting, and works by darkening the scene's ambient light based on object proximity.

    {SNIP!}

    Thanking ye very kindly! That helps a lot.

    Now I need to learn the best times ways to use it. All too often I remove ambient light entirely since I read somewhere "that's what real artists do." Serves me right for being such poseur! :)

  • WendyLuvsCatzWendyLuvsCatz Posts: 38,294
    edited December 1969

    Has CarraraCafé ever started that shader freepository they planned?
    I never saw it.
    If not, EvilP, could you put yours on there perhaps and start it going?

    I think the stalagtite cave in the browser would look pretty with this shader, some water and a mermaid!

  • GarstorGarstor Posts: 1,411
    edited December 1969

    evilproducer said:
    Here's Garstor's crushed sapphire shader that he had the audacity to start in another program. ;-) He offered to let us play with it, and this is what I came up with.

    (hanging my head in shame for using Photoshop... :D )

    Thanks evil! That is some seriously awesome difference. My jaw...it is dropped...

  • evilproducerevilproducer Posts: 9,050
    edited December 1969

    wendy♥catz said:
    Has CarraraCafé ever started that shader freepository they planned?
    I never saw it.
    If not, EvilP, could you put yours on there perhaps and start it going?

    I think the stalagtite cave in the browser would look pretty with this shader, some water and a mermaid!


    I'll have to look to see what they started, but it's really Garstor's shader! I just made some adjustments.


    I'm playing around with adding the color map into the glow channel and turning the brightness down to 15% at the moment. I might then render one with SSS to compare. BTW, looks really weird when the eyes are left normal.

  • K0daKumi_8e8836aac0K0daKumi_8e8836aac0 Posts: 82
    edited December 1969

    Dartanbeck said:
    Why do you do it. Is it that much better? or is it just fun!
    I should really try Blender one day. Too busy right now. Out of curiosity, have you ever seen my scrap movie? Just a Bit of Fun was a test project after I bought the Home Movie Platinum Suite of Vegas. Just put a bunch of test renders of avi clips to some music in a semblance of a storyline. It's just for fun. This one is an ad for my Millennium Dragon Animations pack at Daz. Haven't seen you in a while.

    I wouldn't say that it's better, it's just "different." Luxrender really shines when it comes to interior lighting in my opinion, but there are certain situations where using Luxrender is a bit like killing a fly with a sledgehammer though, lol.

    It does transparency, refraction and caustics quite well also, there are certain aspects where it does have a clear advantage over Carrara or any other biased ray-tracer.

    I haven't watched your movie yet, but I'll give it a play real soon ;-)

  • evilproducerevilproducer Posts: 9,050
    edited February 2013

    Garstor said:
    evilproducer said:
    Here's Garstor's crushed sapphire shader that he had the audacity to start in another program. ;-) He offered to let us play with it, and this is what I came up with.

    (hanging my head in shame for using Photoshop... :D )

    Thanks evil! That is some seriously awesome difference. My jaw...it is dropped...


    I meant your other 3D program... :zip:

    Post edited by evilproducer on
  • WendyLuvsCatzWendyLuvsCatz Posts: 38,294
    edited December 1969

    oops, I mean Gastor and Evil's shader
    forgot who started it.
    sorry

  • evilproducerevilproducer Posts: 9,050
    edited December 1969

    wendy♥catz said:
    oops, I mean Gastor and Evil's shader
    forgot who started it.
    sorry


    Quit alright Wendy. If it's okay with him, and they have a place or way to upload it, I'm fine with it.

  • K0daKumi_8e8836aac0K0daKumi_8e8836aac0 Posts: 82
    edited December 1969

    Garstor said:
    Koukotsu said:
    It's basically just a fast approximation of full indirect lighting, and works by darkening the scene's ambient light based on object proximity.

    {SNIP!}

    Thanking ye very kindly! That helps a lot.

    Now I need to learn the best times ways to use it. All too often I remove ambient light entirely since I read somewhere "that's what real artists do." Serves me right for being such poseur! :)

    Yep, that ambient light isn't entirely worthless after all, lol.

  • evilproducerevilproducer Posts: 9,050
    edited December 1969

    Koukotsu said:
    Garstor said:
    Koukotsu said:
    It's basically just a fast approximation of full indirect lighting, and works by darkening the scene's ambient light based on object proximity.

    {SNIP!}

    Thanking ye very kindly! That helps a lot.

    Now I need to learn the best times ways to use it. All too often I remove ambient light entirely since I read somewhere "that's what real artists do." Serves me right for being such poseur! :)

    Yep, that ambient light isn't entirely worthless after all, lol.


    Sssshhhhh! Some people around here don't like it....... ;-)

  • DartanbeckDartanbeck Posts: 21,624
    edited December 1969

    evilproducer said:


    Edited to add: I did hide the teeth, gums, tongue, inner mouth and eyelashes. The mouth related parts of the mesh caused a shadow artifact and the model looked more like a statue without the eyelashes.Due, of course, to the translucency. Cool thing about Alabaster for carving sculptures - it's not at all transparent, but quite translucent ;)
    oops, I mean Gastor and Evil's shader
    forgot who started it.
    sorry

    Garstor has it up on ShaeCG, I believe
  • GarstorGarstor Posts: 1,411
    edited December 1969

    wendy♥catz said:
    Has CarraraCafé ever started that shader freepository they planned?
    I never saw it.
    If not, EvilP, could you put yours on there perhaps and start it going?

    I think the stalagtite cave in the browser would look pretty with this shader, some water and a mermaid!

    My original shader is on ShareCG.

  • GarstorGarstor Posts: 1,411
    edited December 1969

    evilproducer said:
    I meant your other 3D program... :zip:

    Oh! You mean {whispers} LightWave {/whispers}.

    Well in my humble defense then; that Shader was entirely - start to finish - Carrara born and bred. The colour and normal maps came from Filter Forge.

    I am mainly using {whispers} LightWave {/whispers} for modeling because I don't have a grasp on how to use its shaders effectively. I do sense some massive power with them but it is more than my tiny brain can comprehend at the moment (plus I've never looked at the manual...). :lol:

  • evilproducerevilproducer Posts: 9,050
    edited December 1969

    Garstor said:
    evilproducer said:
    I meant your other 3D program... :zip:

    Oh! You mean {whispers} LightWave {/whispers}.

    Well in my humble defense then; that Shader was entirely - start to finish - Carrara born and bred. The colour and normal maps came from Filter Forge.

    I am mainly using {whispers} LightWave {/whispers} for modeling because I don't have a grasp on how to use its shaders effectively. I do sense some massive power with them but it is more than my tiny brain can comprehend at the moment (plus I've never looked at the manual...). :lol:


    Th-the-they have a-a-a manual...??? Ahhhhhh! Carrara is doomed! Doomed I say! :snake:

  • WendyLuvsCatzWendyLuvsCatz Posts: 38,294
    edited December 1969

    Garstor said:
    wendy♥catz said:
    Has CarraraCafé ever started that shader freepository they planned?
    I never saw it.
    If not, EvilP, could you put yours on there perhaps and start it going?

    I think the stalagtite cave in the browser would look pretty with this shader, some water and a mermaid!

    My original shader is on ShareCG.
    got a few things to grab from there later, will toss it in th goodie bag
    thx

  • evilproducerevilproducer Posts: 9,050
    edited December 1969

    wendy♥catz said:
    Garstor said:
    wendy♥catz said:
    Has CarraraCafé ever started that shader freepository they planned?
    I never saw it.
    If not, EvilP, could you put yours on there perhaps and start it going?

    I think the stalagtite cave in the browser would look pretty with this shader, some water and a mermaid!

    My original shader is on ShareCG.


    got a few things to grab from there later, will toss it in th goodie bag
    thx


    Look at my screen grabs to see what I did to it. It's pretty straight forward. Garstor, nice job on the texture map BTW.

  • GarstorGarstor Posts: 1,411
    edited December 1969

    Dartanbeck said:
    Edit: I'd also be interested in the idea of using that color map in the bump or displacement instead of the super-crushed normal. Better yet, use a mask to allow portions of the normal to come through in places as imperfections in the crystal - with perhaps a tinge of hue imbalance in those spots. Dirty green in some spots and an oxidized brown in others, and finally true clear in some others.

    Damn! I love that idea. It also taxes the Hades out of my Photoshop abilities... ;)

    I'm just making evil's tweaks to my Carrara art gallery scene. Though I'm not quite sure what he meant by "hiding" the teeth/gums/etc. I just copied the shader into every V4 shading domain...once again, my brute force ignorance at work...

  • evilproducerevilproducer Posts: 9,050
    edited December 1969

    Here's the shader with the texture map from the color channel copied and pasted into the glow channel. I turned the brightness down to 15%. I'm rendering one with SSS to see the difference- Aside from the time that is. If it's done before I go to bed I'll post it.


    I did make the eyes look like normal eyes. Pretty interesting effect.

    saphire-woman-glow.jpg
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