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Post Your Renders - #4: A New Hope

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  • GarstorGarstor Posts: 1,411
    edited December 1969

    evilproducer said:
    Th-the-they have a-a-a manual...??? Ahhhhhh! Carrara is doomed! Doomed I say! :snake:

    ROTFLMAO!

    Yep! It is true...and it is a fairly extensive one at that...now to actually open the file one day...

  • evilproducerevilproducer Posts: 9,050
    edited December 1969

    Garstor said:
    Dartanbeck said:
    Edit: I'd also be interested in the idea of using that color map in the bump or displacement instead of the super-crushed normal. Better yet, use a mask to allow portions of the normal to come through in places as imperfections in the crystal - with perhaps a tinge of hue imbalance in those spots. Dirty green in some spots and an oxidized brown in others, and finally true clear in some others.

    Damn! I love that idea. It also taxes the Hades out of my Photoshop abilities... ;)

    I'm just making evil's tweaks to my Carrara art gallery scene. Though I'm not quite sure what he meant by "hiding" the teeth/gums/etc. I just copied the shader into every V4 shading domain...once again, my brute force ignorance at work...


    If you don't hide the teeth, gums, tongue and inner mouth, you'll get a shadow from them. There are a couple ways to do this. You could make a shader with the alpha all the way up (or would that be down?) and apply it to their respective shading domains, or you can go to the vertex room and Edit-->Select By Shading Domain and then select the domain for tongue, etc. etc. and then go to View--> Hide Selection.

  • GarstorGarstor Posts: 1,411
    edited December 1969

    evilproducer said:
    If you don't hide the teeth, gums, tongue and inner mouth, you'll get a shadow from them. There are a couple ways to do this. You could make a shader with the alpha all the way up (or would that be down?) and apply it to their respective shading domains, or you can go to the vertex room and Edit-->Select By Shading Domain and then select the domain for tongue, etc. etc. and then go to View--> Hide Selection.

    Nearly all of my render buckets are stuck on V4's face at the moment...if this shadow artifact appears, then I'll cancel the render and try to make those hide tweaks before trying again.

  • evilproducerevilproducer Posts: 9,050
    edited December 1969

    Garstor said:
    evilproducer said:
    If you don't hide the teeth, gums, tongue and inner mouth, you'll get a shadow from them. There are a couple ways to do this. You could make a shader with the alpha all the way up (or would that be down?) and apply it to their respective shading domains, or you can go to the vertex room and Edit-->Select By Shading Domain and then select the domain for tongue, etc. etc. and then go to View--> Hide Selection.

    Nearly all of my render buckets are stuck on V4's face at the moment...if this shadow artifact appears, then I'll cancel the render and try to make those hide tweaks before trying again.


    I haven't tried it using GI yet, so your mileage may vary.

  • GarstorGarstor Posts: 1,411
    edited December 1969

    The render with evil's tweaks is still underway. I am happy with how the face came out though, even without hiding the teeth/gums/etc.

    I gotta say that her shoulders and bust definitely look a lot more gemstone like now. Thanks again evil! You rock!

    Can hardly wait to post this one. It's 1280x768 and 47% complete as I type this and nearly an hour to go yet...I'll probably leave it overnight and get some reading done before beddy-bye time... :)

  • DartanbeckDartanbeck Posts: 21,624
    edited December 1969

    Have you ever seen Cripeman's Global Illumination Presentation? I know, I keep pushing these things. But it's really good! The man has some wonderful tricks up his sleeves.
    Another tutorial on the subject that I really, really like is Holly Wetcircuit's IBL Tutorial! I'd pay the two of them really great salaries to do this for a living, if I had the means - I really would.

  • GarstorGarstor Posts: 1,411
    edited December 1969

    Dartanbeck said:
    I'd pay the two of them really great salaries to do this for a living, if I had the means - I really would.

    Echo that sentiment brah!

  • evilproducerevilproducer Posts: 9,050
    edited December 1969

    Garstor said:
    The render with evil's tweaks is still underway. I am happy with how the face came out though, even without hiding the teeth/gums/etc.

    I gotta say that her shoulders and bust definitely look a lot more gemstone like now. Thanks again evil! You rock!

    Can hardly wait to post this one. It's 1280x768 and 47% complete as I type this and nearly an hour to go yet...I'll probably leave it overnight and get some reading done before beddy-bye time... :)


    Glad to be of service! I may try an animation with it to see how it reacts to light while moving.


    Here's the SSS version. I'll post that one first and then re-post the glow version second.

    saphire-woman-glow.jpg
    1200 x 900 - 622K
    saphire-woman-SSS.jpg
    1200 x 900 - 611K
  • DartanbeckDartanbeck Posts: 21,624
    edited February 2013

    evilproducer said:
    Garstor said:
    Dartanbeck said:
    Edit: I'd also be interested in the idea of using that color map in the bump or displacement instead of the super-crushed normal. Better yet, use a mask to allow portions of the normal to come through in places as imperfections in the crystal - with perhaps a tinge of hue imbalance in those spots. Dirty green in some spots and an oxidized brown in others, and finally true clear in some others.

    Damn! I love that idea. It also taxes the Hades out of my Photoshop abilities... ;)

    I'm just making evil's tweaks to my Carrara art gallery scene. Though I'm not quite sure what he meant by "hiding" the teeth/gums/etc. I just copied the shader into every V4 shading domain...once again, my brute force ignorance at work...


    If you don't hide the teeth, gums, tongue and inner mouth, you'll get a shadow from them. There are a couple ways to do this. You could make a shader with the alpha all the way up (or would that be down?) and apply it to their respective shading domains, or you can go to the vertex room and Edit-->Select By Shading Domain and then select the domain for tongue, etc. etc. and then go to View--> Hide Selection.

    If you already have Fenrics Posing Pack 3, your 'Edit' menu gets a new Fenric > Unlock Figure command, which would allow you to select them and delete them and free up the resources. If you haven't been following Sci Fi Funk's latest series of video tutorials, you've been missing out on some great stuff. If this is the case, I suggest checking out his other excellent tutorials as well :coolhmm:
    His 3d animated episodes are fraking awesome!
    No, Gars, I'm not trying to get you to buy something!!! Just sayin' - if you already have it! lol
    Post edited by Dartanbeck on
  • DartanbeckDartanbeck Posts: 21,624
    edited December 1969

    EP,
    I really like those. Seeing them side by side, I prefer the sss version. The deeper blues really help to sell the effect. The whole overall shader looks better. Any other changes?
    psst... Evil... is she looking at me? Kinda creepy. I think she may be alive :roll:

  • DartanbeckDartanbeck Posts: 21,624
    edited December 1969

    You did the bump change, didn't you?

  • WendyLuvsCatzWendyLuvsCatz Posts: 38,294
    edited February 2013

    Roygee said:
    Wendy - I'm not scolding anybody - just pointing out that this movie could very well be made entirely in Carrara and disappointed that so few are taking part in the effort:)

    Seeing this is a render thread, how about a small challenge?

    Anyone up for making Mike's "Easy come, easy go" storyline, using any figure, any external software assistance, but rendered in Carrara?


    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OKPqzDWyOoo
    mine
    (yes I know I missed those vertices on his back, only saw it AFTER rendering!)
    luckyman249.png
    1920 x 1080 - 3M
    drop2185.png
    1920 x 1080 - 3M
    luckyman539.png
    1920 x 1080 - 4M
    Post edited by WendyLuvsCatz on
  • evilproducerevilproducer Posts: 9,050
    edited December 1969

    Dartanbeck said:
    You did the bump change, didn't you?


    Nope. Still the bump in the original shader I posted a couple pages back. The only thing, aside from the eyes is the Glow Vs. SSS.


    Regarding the teeth, gums, tongue and inner mouth, I'm pretty sure they're part of the geometry, and I thought I had read that if you delete any polys, then you'd lose the shading domains. Besides, you don't need Fenrics' plugin to unlock your figure. I thought it was possible to do that by smoothing the model using the command under the Edit menu in the assembly room. I'm pretty sure I tested it when I read about it.

  • DartanbeckDartanbeck Posts: 21,624
    edited December 1969

    V4 is a very special case in that she's less locked that nearly anything else. Accident? Oversight? You can add full body morphs to here directly within Carrara - most Daz figures don't allow that without the Fenric tool. And I can tell by your thought that you haven't seen the Sci Fi Funk latest vid! You do lose that shading domain, because the parts are gone. Any domain that still have verts remain, however. But he (Sci Fi Funk) actually eliminates the UV Mapping and everything. He demonstrates how many polys you get rid of just by deleting the inner mouth area. Teeth tongue, gums, etc., Amazing what he does. He reworks the skeletal rig and everything - very cool when you need a bazillion folks running around in an already large scene. Fun stuff to check out.

  • JoeMamma2000JoeMamma2000 Posts: 2,615
    edited December 1969

    Some suggestions regarding shaders, for what little it's worth around here... :)

    If you are going to generate a shader, might I suggest that you give some serious thought to what type of material you are trying to simulate. And when you do that, figure out exactly what properties that material has, and try to duplicate those properties.

    For example, if you're going to generate some sort of crushed crystal structure, think about everything that goes with it. Crystals reflect light. And crushed crystals probably generate speckled reflections of bright light on their surroundings, like a disco ball. And crushed crystals are solid and heavy, and also generate shadows on themselves and their surroundings. And crushed crystals have refraction, which has a distinct look to it. And when you look at crushed crystals they seem to have depth, and "presence". They are fascinating to look at due their complexity.

    Which is why I constantly suggest that people search for photos of actual stuff that is at least close to what they want to simulate and study it, and try to figure out everything that's going on.

    Yes, it takes some work, and no, it's not as fun as just tweaking settings, but if you are at all concerned about quality you really should consider stuff like that. I hate to see people spending hours and hours on renders that, in the end, look flat and uninteresting, and could be done much quicker and look much nicer if they put a little consideration into it.

    And no, I'm not going to spend more time giving anyone a hand holding, step by step tutorial with accompanying videos, so go ahead and ignore this if that's what you want... :)

  • RoygeeRoygee Posts: 2,247
    edited December 1969

    Wendy - you slay me:)

    They have these seriously icy roads in Oz?

  • JoeMamma2000JoeMamma2000 Posts: 2,615
    edited February 2013

    Here's a quick 'n crappy example of the first steps I'd take in making a shader like that...

    The purpose is to show how you want the goal to be having the viewer be able to "feel" and "experience" the texture. This one, I think, gives you a clear sensation of the presence of a rough, metallic texture that you can almost feel yourself running your hands over it.

    Next step would be to include some reflective highlights on the surroundings like a rough metal/crystal texture would. Then give it some depth so it doesn't look so metallic.

    (BTW, click for the big image...the thumbnail looks pretty bad)

    Crystal_001.jpg
    1000 x 738 - 142K
    Post edited by JoeMamma2000 on
  • JoeMamma2000JoeMamma2000 Posts: 2,615
    edited December 1969

    Oh, and the other important consideration is to make sure it interacts with the surroundings. That sells the concept.

    BTW, this took 54 seconds to render, though in its final stage it would probably be quite a bit longer.

  • DartanbeckDartanbeck Posts: 21,624
    edited December 1969

    Time for bed. Three point seven foot long dynamic hair. lol
    We'll see if it behaves the animation.

    14mulinkrtdh1.jpg
    1280 x 720 - 454K
  • GarstorGarstor Posts: 1,411
    edited December 1969

    The close-up camera angle from my art gallery scene, but using (most of) EP's tweaks.

    The effect of the translucency isn't as pronounced here (which I regret) likely because of how I have the other light sources setup. Evil's changes to the Shininess and Highlight definitely bring out the structure far better than my original shader.

    @JM2K: Though we rarely agree on heated issues; I do happen to be in the same camp about studying objects and trying to simulate real-world effects. One crucial point here though is that this shader was entirely a joyous accidental discovery. It stemmed from a "that looks interesting" random play in Filter Forge to, "I wonder what it would look like on V4?"

    test_18_-_EP_tweaks.png
    1280 x 768 - 986K
  • GarstorGarstor Posts: 1,411
    edited December 1969

    Dartanbeck said:
    If you already have Fenrics Posing Pack 3, your 'Edit' menu gets a new Fenric > Unlock Figure command, which would allow you to select them and delete them and free up the resources. If you haven't been following Sci Fi Funk's latest series of video tutorials, you've been missing out on some great stuff.

    I don't have any of Fenric's stuff. Based on other threads about his products, I am sure that is my loss. Actually a small gripe of mine (and the fault is mostly my own ignorance), is that many vendors state what a given plug-in will do using some technical term that I don't understand. So while I see something on their page that looks good, it is not immediately obvious to me what I can do with it.

    No, Gars, I'm not trying to get you to buy something!!! Just sayin' - if you already have it! lol

    :) I don't mind in the slightest.

    An example of what I mean above: I found Carrara through a banner ad for DCG's stuff. It was only in the last couple of months that I ended up buying some DCG plug-ins for Carrara. But I often browsed DCG's site, staring and wondering if the purchase would be valuable to me. Now that I have some of of DCG's stuff - I regret not getting it sooner.

    The only caveat I have is that there is nil documentation (that I've found) so those technical terms still confuse and elude me. Heck, even some non-technical word choices...in the case of DCG, there is a "grout" property on nearly everything. Sure...I know what grouting is in the real world...but I don't see what it means in the case of the shader. When I play with the property, all too often I don't see any effect or change in the appearance. So I sit here in a daze wondering, "What the heck is this used for?"

  • DartanbeckDartanbeck Posts: 21,624
    edited February 2013

    Garstor said:
    The only caveat I have is that there is nil documentation (that I've found) so those technical terms still confuse and elude me. Heck, even some non-technical word choices...in the case of DCG, there is a "grout" property on nearly everything. Sure...I know what grouting is in the real world...but I don't see what it means in the case of the shader. When I play with the property, all too often I don't see any effect or change in the appearance. So I sit here in a daze wondering, "What the heck is this used for?"Absolutely. Many of these tools are an invaluable aid to us. But we first have to learn what they're used for and how to set them up - bringing up the hard part. Fenric can write the plugins and briefly explain their purpose. But the rest is up to us to figure out as our needs arise. At ShareCG, member "fabaone" has some fantastic free tutorials on some of Fenric's plugins - namely the ERC controller. I have downloaded and printed them all out. I've still been tremendously foggy on implementing it. I recently went through her (faba's) tutorials again and slapped my forehead... "Of Course!"... so I must be getting smarter in my mid age! :coolhmm:
    Time for bed. Three point seven foot long dynamic hair. lol
    We'll see if it behaves the animation.
    I rendered out the resulting animation, which illustrates my need for Dogwaffle Pro: Howler - for animation Post work. See the Video of three point seven foot Dynamic Hair!
    Post edited by Dartanbeck on
  • evilproducerevilproducer Posts: 9,050
    edited December 1969

    Garstor said:
    The close-up camera angle from my art gallery scene, but using (most of) EP's tweaks.

    The effect of the translucency isn't as pronounced here (which I regret) likely because of how I have the other light sources setup. Evil's changes to the Shininess and Highlight definitely bring out the structure far better than my original shader.

    @JM2K: Though we rarely agree on heated issues; I do happen to be in the same camp about studying objects and trying to simulate real-world effects. One crucial point here though is that this shader was entirely a joyous accidental discovery. It stemmed from a "that looks interesting" random play in Filter Forge to, "I wonder what it would look like on V4?"


    GI will tend to mute specular effects. The translucency could be helped by using SSS. Expect it to take a whole lot longer to render though.

  • DartanbeckDartanbeck Posts: 21,624
    edited December 1969

    Hey Garstor, Do you have a link to that shader again? I wanna play!

  • evilproducerevilproducer Posts: 9,050
    edited December 1969

    Dartanbeck said:
    Hey Garstor, Do you have a link to that shader again? I wanna play!


    Hey Dart, nice video. I like the movement. Well... Not the hair movement actually, but the characters' movement. Nice lighting as well.

  • JoeMamma2000JoeMamma2000 Posts: 2,615
    edited December 1969

    Garstor said:
    One crucial point here though is that this shader was entirely a joyous accidental discovery. It stemmed from a "that looks interesting" random play in Filter Forge to, "I wonder what it would look like on V4?"

    And that's fine if you were playing.

    But the point is that you can play and make GOOD stuff as easily as you can play and make NOT SO GOOD stuff. If you develop your skills and make it a natural part of your playing, you don't waste time doing stuff that won't look good. It's just as easy to select a bump that will look good as it is to select a bump that will look crummy. Same with every other setting you make.

    So I'm merely suggesting that before you play you think and learn, so that your playing will be more productive.

    Or not...

  • DartanbeckDartanbeck Posts: 21,624
    edited February 2013

    evilproducer said:

    Hey Dart, nice video. I like the movement. Well... Not the hair movement actually, but the characters' movement. Nice lighting as well.

    Thanks. I don't care for the hair movement either. In this test, I was actually looking for that as well as a closer look at the Jittering issue. The thing that I do like about the hair is the actual, still life appearance of it. Once I get Dogwaffle, I'm planning to try and make some paint brush presets for painting the hair onto the figure entirely in post. Yeah... Post!
    I've been studying the rotoscoping, alpha masking, and custom brush capabilities of Howler. The animated brush abilities are amazing - as are it's abilities in mask swapping, keyframed painting and many others that I think will entirely change the way I animate in Carrara. Without any hair, my Rosie character slams through renders really fast... like lightning. All of the textures on her and her clothing are very low res.
    Thanks about the lighting. I tried some entirely new techniques (to me) in lighting that environment. Thinking along the lines of a filtered artificial atmosphere, I decided to keep it relatively free of dust. There are still some shaders in there that I haven't optimized yet, but it still looks good. Predatron3d is one of those vendors that I always trust. This is in my opinion one of the finest sci fi environment products available. I bought that mini submarine from the Platinum Club lineup of 1.99ers specifically for this locale - and the 14 MU Workers matching the thing to a tee was an added bonus - as I bought them all together using this same vision ;)
    Post edited by Dartanbeck on
  • GarstorGarstor Posts: 1,411
    edited December 1969

    Dartanbeck said:
    Hey Garstor, Do you have a link to that shader again? I wanna play!


    http://www.sharecg.com/v/67250/view/7/Material-and-Shader/Crushed-Sapphire

    I'll leave it to you to apply Evil's tweaks.

    Now here is a friend of mine (non-CG artist...but knows what he likes! :) ) commenting on the new version of the shader:


    Interesting. I think it has more of a glass/crystal feel than the original, but the texture map seems too regular to my eye - gives it almost a lizard skin feel to it (metaphorically of course). Colours look good as does the pattern of the blues.

    An idea to possibly explore is removing the organic look of the model for a more linear one. That is - make it look more faceted. Like a gem. (I realize after looking at actual sapphire carvings that your original is more "realistic" but by making the figure more angular/faceted it conveys the "gem-like" nature more. A case of misrepresentation actually serving to convey the message more clearly).

    Alternatively making it more glass like might allow the organic curves to look more mineral like.

    This guy is one of my toughest critics... ;)

    So now I am wondering if it is worth playing with displacement mapping...very subtly...to try to make things appear more carved and angular on V4.

  • JoeMamma2000JoeMamma2000 Posts: 2,615
    edited December 1969

    Garstor said:
    This guy is one of my toughest critics... ;)

    Umm...I don't think so... :)

  • DartanbeckDartanbeck Posts: 21,624
    edited December 1969

    Wow. I... ahhhh
    Ignore instead... sheeesh!
    Never ignored anyone before. Guess I gotta start somewhere.

This discussion has been closed.