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Here is an image covering the gist of how the subsurface shading rate works.
..I routinely render at a .2 shader rate.
Thanks so much for your absolutely outstanding support, Age of Armour.
I have learned so much from the the PDF, images and information you've been releasing.
It is also remaining very approachable to the artist side of my brain.
Which is good because that is the only side of my brain that remains even semi-operational.
I'm having a problem with the plastic shader respecting visibility of bones. I set visibility of all of Genesis except the right hand to OFF. Then I applied the blue plastic shader to the right hand. In the viewport, I see the blue hand and the rest of Genesis is still invisible (correct). But when rendered, the rest of Genesis is visible.
Edit: I have the same problem with the gummy shader.
Here's a side by side of Jason. Left is as is, right is with SSS toon.
(click for closeup)
I can confirm this, if you reduce the opacity in the surfaces tab they don't render, but they are still visible in render if you either turn off the eye in the scene tab or turn off the Visible in render switch in the parameters tab.
Age of Armour thank you for all the informative posts they have really helped get my head around these shaders.
I can confirm this, if you reduce the opacity in the surfaces tab they don't render, but they are still visible in render if you either turn off the eye in the scene tab or turn off the Visible in render switch in the parameters tab.
If you apply the default DS shader to the be-invisible parts, does this situation occurs as well?
That's the Render Settings shading rate, AoA was referring to the shading rate setting for the shader itself.
Its when the invisible part has the DS shader that it renders visible - if you apply the SSS shader to the invisible part it renders invisible - hope that makes sense.
But using the "eye" or "Visible" doesn't work in both situations?
I tried by only applying Subsurface Shader to hand, applied plastic preset, set opacity of the rest of Genesis to zero, and got this...
Yes altering opacity works but turning off the eye, or using the Visible in render switch in Parameters or both of them doesn't.
After further tweaking material settings (especially group id and quality settings), the render of the scene looks better.
However it is very easy to get this black/dark areas, if one is not careful enough.
I pretty much always use the Surfaces tab to adjust opacity, but yeah, I see what you mean - preview shows it should just be fingers visible, but render shows entire hand (this time with Gummy)...
Woah! That is weird! Off the top of my head I can't think of anything that would cause that. Well... I did think of one thing but, after testing for it, found out that wasn't the cause.
Thanks for pointing this out. I will look into it and see if there is a way to get the visibility to work. I honestly can't say with any certainty that I will be able to change this though. It is pretty perplexing.
Unrelated to the above but here is a series of images showing how the Flip Normals switch is intended to be used. When used in conjunction with a geometry shell you can give single sided geometry volume and get more accurate SSS from such models.
I would never think of this, hm... have to test it. Thank you for the tip.
Why won't Aiko 3 take the Toon Skin but will take the Gummy and Plastic shaders? She'll also take the generic shader, but still can't be modifi3ed by the skin shaders.
I've been lurking in this post trying to find a solution to the black subsurface conundrum (or the BSC as I like to call it). an example of which I've posted below. Oddly, the same surfaces worked fine in earlier renders, so it's hard to pin down exactly which settings were the cause of the trouble.
Has anyone found a workable solution yet?
The base, gummy and plastic presets are all shader presets which can be applied to any surface. The toon skins are material presets, like a character preset which apply the same base shader but also have textures, UVs and material zones set up for Genesis.
You can use the A3 morph for Genesis to get essentially the same result. That is what I did for some of the promos. A3 is my favorite so I use a little bit of Aiko in almost all my Genesis characters.
I hope that is helpful for your situation. If not let me know and I'll see if I can think of a workaround.
Hi HeraldOfFire,
There is a post a couple pages back with some images showing the effects of group IDs and scale. If setting the shading scale to a smaller number and using separate group IDs doesn't work then try triple checking that there isn't something else in the scene using that same group ID.
I had one case early on where I had accidentally applied a preset with the same group ID to some distant object like a plant in the background and couldn't figure out why on earth the other surfaces didn't look right hehe.
If that still doesn't help let me know and I'll see if I can't recreate and track down the issue.
One problem with the technique of using the opacity slider is that the surfaces do not match up exactly with bones, as you've shown. There is a surface for hand, but no surface for fingers. Also, the surface for hand doesn't exactly match the geometry associated with the bone hand. I hope AoA figures out a fix for this issue.
One problem with the technique of using the opacity slider is that the surfaces do not match up exactly with bones, as you've shown. There is a surface for hand, but no surface for fingers. Also, the surface for hand doesn't exactly match the geometry associated with the bone hand. I hope AoA figures out a fix for this issue.
Humm... this is not a fix but it is a workaround.
You can create a geometry shell on Genesis and apply your desired presets. Then, in the shell's parameters you can turn off everything but the hand. Unfortunately that is a lot of clicking but it appears to work.
Will that work for your project?
Experimenting with skin shader.. I dont think I nailed it yet and i can't get anywhere near the right kind of specular gloss on the lips and the skin looks flat. And dry. but any specular and i seem to get reflection.
And I didn't even start to try the shader on hair yet.... for now the hair is using my own shader.
Tips for making a better skin? skin is dublin.
Humm... this is not a fix but it is a workaround.
You can create a geometry shell on Genesis and apply your desired presets. Then, in the shell's parameters you can turn off everything but the hand. Unfortunately that is a lot of clicking but it appears to work.
Will that work for your project?
Hey, that's clever! It works. I set Genesis visibility off at the root and set the geometry shell parts I didn't want to see to off. I wonder why the shell works differently than Genesis.
AoA, while you are investigating the visibility issue, take a look at Metalized Glass Shader, too. It behaves the same strange way with Genesis. The geometry shell workaround works for that too.
Edit: I have tried many shaders now. EVERYTING I have tried other than omUberSurface and DAZ Studio Default have this issue, including shaders delivered with Genesis Starter Essentials, like chrome and glass. I am going to submit a bug report.
Edit: Here's the bug report https://bugs.daz3d.com/view.php?id=50424
There seems to be a larger demand for disembodied hands than I was aware of. (my invisible tongue is placed firmly in my invisible cheek)
LOL Tjohn!
Great to hear that the geometry shell worked out well for you barbult.
I'm not sure I understand what would cause you to not get specular highlights belovedalia. Only thing that comes to mind is that the 3delight model and Phong speculars both need higher gloss settings to look as shiny as the DS Default shader's Blinn model. For instance you might need to turn specular 1 up to 95% glossy in the SSS shader to get a similar look as you would get from 80% glossy in the DS default shader.
The hair looks really nice by the way. I would definitely wait 'till last to try the SSS shader on the hair because it is bound to render reeeeeallly slowly hehe.
D'you suppose they're all related to Thing, of Addams Family fame?