Advice Request On New PC and Graphics Card - GTX 1070 vs. GTX 1080Ti
tristanthorne1997
Posts: 241
I'm thinking of getting a new PC. It has an Intel i7-8700K Processor 3, 16GB DDR, SSD, etc.
The main difference between the two models I'm considering is the GPU. I don't do any gaming.....just rendering. Is it worth the $400 upcharge to go from the GTX 1070 to the GTX 1080Ti ?
How much faster will rendering be (static images, not animation)? Also, is the speed of Nvidia Iray Draw Style vs. Texture Shaded Draw Style faster with a more robust GPU, or is it a function of the amount of RAM my PC has?
| NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1070NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1070 | NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1080 TiNVIDIA GeForce GTX 1080 Ti |
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Comments
1080 Ti should be ballpark 50% faster. Iray draw style is dependent on video card.
The 1080 Ti also has 11GB VRAM, as opposed to 8GB on the 1070. This will allow you to render larger, more complex scenes without dropping to CPU. How important that is to you is a decision for you to make.
- Greg
Good lord, 50% faster!?
I'm going to sell my plasma if I have to. I need that!!
Thank you, I appreciate the comments.
...prices for 1070s have finally come down from the stratosphere and are about 250$ - 300$ lower than a 1080Ti. What you need to consider is the usual size of scene you usually create.
1070s are great. I have a 1070 and 1060 in my current rig. Granted I have the ability to render scenes without being limited to my VRAM because I use octane render. And because Octane renders at least 3x as fast as iray...well I'm not concerned about a 50% increase in speeds in iray. (tested by me dozens of times over, its a reality, not dare call this speculation and many pros will tell you Iray is slow as mess)
1080 is a monster. but the 1070 is no slouch. its the software that hamstrings the 1070, or even the 1060 really. I still have 760 and 660ti in my house I use for stuff. A 760 or 660ti is stil very fast with the right software. A 760 is faster with some software than the 1070 is in another. Period. so if speeds are a concern, and prices mean something then you need to do a bit more math and not just buying into the hardware hype. Software matters.
A 1080 Ti will be 50% faster than a 1070 in Octane, too.
the question may be getting a faster Renderer, or a faster Hardware. And the costs associated.
SImply put, you wouldn't need a new video card with Octane. Because Vram is no issue and the speeds are sick. You control texture memory (really not even needed now) if you must. You have full control over everything. So its something to think about.
typically people care about improving from where they are now. So the question is, how long does it take for your typical render now. And finding a path for improvement. Hardware isn't always the best spend on money. For those willing to research that is. I recently had to debate again on this myself. Network iray ended up being slower than a single PC with only GPU (4 pc, with variations of 6,7 and 10 series cards and Intel processors, versus a SINGLE PC with octane on GPU ONLY) . its just how it is.
So sure a 1080ti is faster, but where do you spend your money? Buy something that is 50% faster that what you have now that is still slower than a solution that didn't require new hardware? its a worthwhile discussion for those not overly committed to only doing what is presented on the daz website.
But yeah if we want to act like iray is the best thing since sliced bread (its not, but I know thats not popular to say here, externally its excepted that there are other solutions), just overspend on hardware and use it with software that isn't fast. But even Nvidia puts Iray and there Mental Ray solutions below third party solutions on their rendering solutions page. Fact. For those whom ever looked.
I think you're missing something. He doesn't have a 1070 right now, he's thinking about buying a computer with a 1070 or a 1080 Ti. Buying a 1080 Ti is less expensive than buying a 1070 and Octane. Also, if he chooses the 1080 Ti and goes to Octane later, he will benefit as much from the 50% speed increase as he would with Iray.
As for me I'll pick up Octane whenever they add the MDL support they've been talking about approximately forever.
I'm not missing anything. I knew that they did not have a 1070 yet. However I decided I overwrote in my response and trying to articulate the differences would take more lines. The point you may have missed is that overspending on hardware is not always the solution. ( i would argue overspending on hardware never is. When using software its a fine balance between the software and hardware)
MDL support would be nice, I guess but I got Octane to have full control over making my own materials. Which I have had for about 5 or so years. I haven't been dependant on material settings from "pros" for a long time. Though I understand its a thing many still need to create thier pieces. Though I never encourage people to let that hold them back. Its very empowering do manage your own lighting and materials. Its most of the art really. Visual art is about light, so one should try to master that as much as they can.
Though octane auto converts OK to start with really, cept hair transparencies from IRAY. but those look like TRASH in the viewport too. not sure why the 3Delight mats still have proper transparencies and the iray ones don't. seems like even iray users would like to see proper transparencies in the viewport and in the surfaces tool. *shrugs*
Buying a 1080 Ti that works fine for purposes and then maybe later buy Octane or another render engine is not overspend on hardware. Buying a 1070 and Octane, then deciding you want 50% faster and upgrading to a 1080 Ti is overspend on hardware.
Which you can do with MDL, with the benefit they actually work elsewhere. (You can also make materials right inside DS now.)
The thing is it is all fine and dandy for people to say to buy the latest and greatest in hardware, but never think how much the OP has to spend on all this fancy new hardware.. And on that note OP it all depends on whether you think spending an extra $400 to go to a GTX 1080Ti is worth it as you will want to get your monies worth out of what you purchase, in the end it is hard to decide what to do but in the end what you choose is entirely up to you..
super valid point!
but may not be the best spend on money, if you could be faster otherwise. Right? ^_^ But I get it, here its all thats is presented for us(here). Which is iray!
I do wish you could buy the octane plugin on daz for a trial, cause that is a huge barrier realistically. For many a hurtle too much (and its not cheap lets be real, but if purely taking speed then its much clearer). I do understand the comfort of sticking to this store, but at same time thing is a crutch too.
You wouldn't even need to upgrade from a 1070 + octane if you are used to less now. But Its hard for non-believers to see that since there is such a barrier to entry. I just reject the simple approach that spending more money on a slower upgrade and then later getting a massive upgrade is the best path.
I never said a 1080 wasn't a great card. I'm more talking about the mentality. We should ocasionally revist our software and hardware bias. If we cant do that we get stuck.
I recently retried iRay on many machines and tried some other render solutions a co-worker suggested. I think it's a good practice.
Glad I didn't have to spend that much to get a responsive viewport!
Short answer... get the 1080 Ti. That's what I purchased in my new desktop after my laptop turned into a paperweight. You will see a difference. I can manuver in iRay view with ease and make adjustments.
It is the best spend on money if you're intending to keep your hardware for years through all the many, many changes in software you might want to try.
Also, come on. Octane is free in Unity, there is absolutely nothing but time stopping someone from having their 1080 Ti with Octane, for less money than a 1070 with the DS plugin and 50% faster. Get the 1080 Ti, try all the exciting stuff out there (try Cycles too!), don't get the 1070 because of one DS plugin.
A 1070 and a 1060 plus Octane Render for DS costs just a wee bit more than a 1080 Ti.
This response sort of gave the game away for me:
Hmmm .... If it was me, I would try to up the RAM to 24Gb or 32Gb if I got a 1080Ti. True, it would still be faster than a 1070, but to use all of the RAM on the GPU, it would be best to get more system RAM. But thats just me
As an Octane user too, I can agree that money invested in Octane is invested in a faster and much more feature rich render engine. Plus Octane doesn't limit you to the RAM on your GPU - that can be a big plus! But, the down side is you need to learn how to make your own shaders, and can't rely so heavily on PA's, which it seems that most users are reluctant to do so ???? I've got to admit to being lazy myself and using Iray more than Octane, but there are times that Octane just makes more sense (especially when working with Carrara).
...that is one feature of Octane I like, along with the fact it is an external engine rather than integrated into the main software. One of my big gripes with Iray is having to keep the programme and scene file open during rendering which wastes valuable system resources if you are on an older system (I often have render jobs dump to even more glacial swap mode). This is not so much an issue with 3DL as it is with Iray. With Octane I could get by with a 4 GB GPU card (which I already have) as only the texture load would dump to the CPU once GPU VRAM was exceeded rather than both geometry and textures. Also do like the fact there is a plugin for Carrara.
Coming up with the 600$ for the render engine and plugin is the rub though as that is more than half my fixed monthly income. The subscription version doesn't interest me as you have to be online to use it (so connectivity can be an issue) and you need to have a PayPal membership (I cancelled mine after people reported having certain troublesome issues with the service). Granted it would only be 240$ spread out over a year but the cons above for me outweigh the pros (basically 2 months access for the price of one Stonemason set). Also not sure how this works with Daz's EULA as you would be sending raw mesh file information to Otoy's servers.
I give you another vote for the GTX 1080 ti
That extra 3GB of VRAM alone makes it worth it for Iray rendering. (The 50% faster render time is just a bonus)
Using the subscription the software runs locally on your machine, so your not sending DAZ data anywhere. Otoy also has a rending service/farm, for that you would be sending them the data, but that would be no different than using an Iray rendering service/farm.
...I just looked at the details and it mentions it runs on their servers. Maybe not for the shader setup but for the rendering.
They are refering to the license server(s), the software runs on your computer, but must get autorization from the license server to run. Below is the quote from their web site.
"Use of the software is available only while online, connected via the internet to the Octane licensing server"
..so once that is confirmed you can go offline and render?
Still, the PayPal thing has me put off. Too bad they didn't do a quartely, 6 month and full year subscription like Adobe does where you could then pay with your bank card in advance. 240$ (or maybe 200$ as a break for a full year) would be doable. Only have one GPU card anyway.
I don't know about that, from their wording it kind of sounds like you need an active internet connection while using the software via subscription
. I'm pretty sure the full version only requires an internet connection for authorization the first time you use it, once autorized you can run disconnected (I've never had problems running it when not conected to the intenet).
...ahh, no good then particularly with the recent situation regarding the Intel CPU flaw and fix that can impact performance (some people on game clouds reported they are experiencing performance reductions) along with the possibility of throttled bandwidth, working online sounds less desirable. I've been noticing more frequent slowdowns since the FCC ruling went into effect. Even had a 10 min YouTube vid go into buffering mode which hasn't happened on the work system.
Also if you need to be constantly connected to their servers, then wouldn't you would be transmitting Daz mesh information otherwise how would their server render your scene? To confusing.
Need to find a way to generate a small windfall for the perpetual licence, far simpler.
For the software subscription, their servers don't render your scene (that's why one of the requirements is an Nvidia card on your machine). The Octane software running on your machine simply pings their license server every now and then to say "here I am, I'm being used, here is my software code, am I authorized to run?" and the server responds "hi, I recognize you, according to my records you are authorized to run, you may continue, see you again soon.". I would guess that they set it up to ping the server something in the range of every 15 min to possibly every hour (they don't want to make their own servers and internet connection to busy by making it something ridiculous like every 5 seconds).
...ah, I see. This cloud stuff can be somewhat baffling. Still usually don't like being online as that also takes system resoruces. I've seen FF bloat to almost 2 GB.and when you only have 10.5 GB available, that is a hefty amount.
Does the subscription version allow you to close Daz after the scene is submitted to the render engine?
In the iray benchmark scene, the reported rendering times for the 1070 are around 3 minutes, and the 1080ti around 2 minutes. That's a 33% improvement.
You are correct, the wording should be as follows:
The GTX 1070 is 50% slower than the GTX 1080 ti on the benchmark scene.
How many data points? Because that sounds a lot like "ballpark 50%" to me especially comparing what are obviously rounded averages.