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Agree! Splicing your remarks from different discussion threads, it drives home the point that photo realism in 3D comics is still a no-go. It says something about the intertia of established conventions, which is probably too large to change, both among the comic producers and the consumers.
Well, I don't want to be spliced in there because that's not what I said or in any way meant to convey.
First part- photo realism in 3D comics is still a no-go
Says who? By example of what book/artist? And what year are we talking?
Some of us are still thinking this is 1995 and EVERYONE is experiencing comics like it's under that context.
I get it- some of you are really, really interested in using CGI and 3D Models, combined with something else to make your work look "Hand Drawn".
I also get that - for many Iray users, making a photorealistic render is the thing.
That is not everyone.
I repeat: That is not everyone.
Despite the legend of "the early days", 3Delight renders and 99.9% of "3D Comics" did not look hand drawn and did not look photoreal.
It's really time to bury that myth.
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The hurdles to 3D, really CGI comics and NOT true 3D--> As a person who has actually made a comic with 3D sections (like, put on 3D glasses) it's still weird to say "3D Comics", but I accept the context.
Firstly, everyone is making stuff that LOOKS like a comic....
When MMitchel_Houston said: "It looks like a comic and – far more importantly – it reads like a comic."
I know he meant the first part that it looks like a comic panel and reads like a comic (panel). That's not a comic page and it's not an example of sequential art.
But I know what he meant.
Artists who never drew comics tend to make renders of panels that no artist would ever draw.
I mean that both, in subject and composition. That's probab;y the key difference.
The techniques are the same but the tools are vastly different.
AND, once we swing towards photo-real, it's time to start looking at photography and lean away from what "people who draw" would do.
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And then we need to separate Phot-real and "attention to detail". Those are two different things.
Back in the day, if you used a Daz Alley in your comic, it was empty. *maybe* a shiny metal trash can or two.
In 2015, when I started using Daz, I pointed out how everything was clean and pristine. Every bed was made. There was no 'messy' anything.
There was no trash or litter. No cracks, no dirt, no stains...no crumbs..
No half-eaten sandwich, no half finished drinks.
It was very hard to make a convincing world for the action to take place in.
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Times have changed and by saying that, I mean TIMES HAVE CHANGED.
The context of your comic TODAY is mobile phones, webtoons and the influence of AI.
This is not my opinion; this is my observation.
Every Daz Studio Ad that is being served in the wild is being bombarded with comments about AI.
Even in the Daz galley, commenters can't tell the difference between postwok and AI.
A lot of the olden days CGI-comics did not look that good.
And most people, because of that, did not respect the process of using CGI assets, etc...
That was THEN, now, people see a CGI comic and don't have any idea HOW it was made.
That is not my opinion, that is my Experience.
Ahh. Hmm. OK.
I can't make sense of what you just wrote. (And last I checked my English was serviceable.) No judgement on my part. I sense that you're saying something of value but I can't grasp the head or the tail of it. At any rate, by any chance, are you from New York City? I lived there for a few years, long enough to have an ear for the local speak, what a cab driver once called "the rat-tat-tat cadence of the subway." I always have great respect for New Yorkers. I'm sure if we had a face-to-face conversation, we'd get to the heart of things.
Cheers!
I can't make sense of what you just wrote.
Probably because I wasn't really talking to you.
Earlier in the thread, I am partially quoted suggesting that 3D comics are "no go" or unaccepted.
The full context was digital comics distributor ComiXology saying that they didn't take photo-based comics or CGI comics in their submission policy.
The other context is a post about using mostly straight renders to make comics.
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The only part that should be directly at you is the reference to your panel of the person firing a gun out of a speeding car above.
I like the styles you've shown. I say keep going.
Ah. OK. I'm slow to grasp things here, which seems to have a longer history. So please run your earlier response by me again. I have the understanding that 3D means rendering, and CGI falls under the same category. So this means that comic art involving Daz assets aren't acceptable at ComiXology. Do you think they should change their policy?
Thank you. For now, I don't have stories to share in this thread, only visual styles I'm exploring.
Cheers!
Daz assets aren't acceptable at ComiXology.
- that is OLD information.
1) ComiXology is no longer taking submissions and basically DEAD as a site to host/sell/ comics. They have been absorbed - not really - because you had to RELOAD all your titles under Amazon Kindle. They didn't even have a forward for the old ComiXology titles. In other words, ALL my comics on ComiXology are GONE. I relaunched them on Kindle directly.
2) I never had a problem getting my Iray-rendered panel-comics on ComiXology. I had many books on there and never had an issue. I also did fine with sales. If I did nothing, I'd sell Zero books. ComiXology had no engine to promote or highlight titles. You couldn't run an ad or do a discount or coupon or bundle or special or....or any kind of SALE. Nothing. You were on your own.
When I ran ads on my own, books sold. Not in any super-great numbers, but the matrix says- if people see/hear about your stuff, they'll check it out and give it a chance.
3) Do you think they should change their policy?
I don't think anywhere should change their policy. Daz should continue to say "Use a lot of Daz Studio or get lost" lol
Sites for hand-drawn comics should say "Draw or get lost"
Anti-AI sites or galleries should keep it so....
I have no issue with spaces being set up for specific artists/styles/methods/systems.
Sgts. Cleo & Inez: Disquiet | Daz assets | Blender render | Clip Studio Paint post-edit
This is about as far as I go with comics...lol.
This is not an example of a comic strip. It is merely a tongue in cheek image of an exercise that I did, when ask to explain a photo of a wall with a hole in it (last frame). Possibly a good example of how a noob would lay out a page. Please feel free to rip it apart as pointers for all the comic publishers here. I posted it because I thought it was funny. I hope you do to.
Brilliant. Dazzling artwork that really sets the atmosphere and tension. The translation is just a little off, but it is certainly understandable.
Wow, that is stunning work. Well done!
Don't under estimate it. It is a complete story, with a beginning, middle and end. We have more information now than before, explaining the hole. The sequential art has done its job. And there was a bit of humor along the way.
denavin,
And if I might add, we all take up storytelling coming from different backgrounds, different orientations and different skill sets. The best stories come from the heart with imagery adjusted to suite the need.
Impostor Syndrome, I've learned, is one major stumbling block we face, holding us back from reaching our potential. One way to counter this is to keep a learner's mindset -- that is, acknowledging that there's always room for improvement, and just keep doing stuff that one enjoys.
Cheers!
One of my more recent illustrations.
Created as the cover for a fanzine, this illustration shows that there's still plenty of life in Michael 4, who is the base figure for both Cap and the Skull. Created by compositing multiple b&w renders created in Poser 13. Clean up was in Clip Studio Paint, and the color was added using Retro Supply Co.'s ColorLab brushes. This was created for print, so the halftones were set up for that purpose. Unfortunately, they sometimes look a little weird when resized for display online. If you'd like to see the color dots in more detail, open it to 100%.
Taking up mmitchell_houston's lead, here are a few covers I've worked on lately. Nothing published, sorry to say. Both are a homage to Herge's Tintin series, the Belgian comic book that I thoroughly enjoyed many, many years ago.
If anyone has any of their own to share, please don't be shy and pitch in.
Cheers!
Sgt. Inez: Various Covers | Daz assets | Blender render | Clip Studio Paint post-edit
Congratulations on two well executed covers. The second I saw them I caught the Tintin vibe! They are both effective. Oddly enough, although I think the second one is more effective, I actually like the first one more. I think it's the background that gives it a sense of place.
Hi, Griffin (or Drew? :)), and everyone,
I thought I'd wade in and offer some thoughts. I've been a comics creator most of my life, I worked for Marvel and DC twenty some years ago writing and drawing titles such as Elektra, Uncanny X-Men, Superman, and JLA. I've been doing professional/paid CG comics since the late nineties, using things like Hash, and Ray Dream Studio.
(Pictured is the first Marvel project I wrote and drew using heavy amounts of CG, US War Machine.)
I am still currently working in comics creating titles for ComiXology publishing things like Edgeworld (also pictured).
ComiXology Publishing is different from the ComiXology app. The first pays you to create for the app, and eventually print. The second is just the app, and allows you to self-publish and upload to the app/Amazon for distribution. The publisher does not want CG. Not even from me. The second allows me to self-publish anything I want as long as it adheres to their guidelines (no pornography, etc.).
So, speaking from long, historical experience: There has always been a bias against/fascination for CG. People hate it, or are completely intrigued by it. Many current companies do not want CG rendered comics in any form, given their existing audience, which prefers hand drawn. But that is an audience limited to comic shops, which prefer reading paper/pamphlet almost exclusively superhero comics.
Meanwhile, CG has been used, and is a part of some of the biggest hits in comics, or manga for quite some time now, but mostly hidden. Gantz is probably the most obvious example. Again, the CG is used mostly as underdrawing in a similar way to how I did it back in the day, to be sold to a market that prefers hand-drawn.
But that is changing.
As fans of video games become more prevalent, CG gets better, and CG artists become more skilled, this is all changing, and will only change more. Quality storytelling will always win out over technique where comics are concerned. People hated—hated—Frank Miller’s art when he first appeared writing and drawing Daredevil. But once they read his stories…
The same went for some of Jack Kirby’s comics, especially his Young Romance line. The art was not well-liked, but the stories were gripping, and the stories won out.
To reach an audience I believe CG will have to become more genre based, and less superhero-specific. Superhero fans are not fans of CG in their comics (although they’re perfectly fine with it in their movies. Ironic). But if a comic presented superheroes with film-level CG, I think fans would accept it, though publishers might not.
I believe it’s finding the sweet spot for your work, and telling great, gripping stories that will shift the perspective.
-CA
Space Viking, thanks so much for your insights. As a pro they mean a lot. Personally, I think the bias against CG for superhero fans is because it’s always been about the artist. It’s why you can find hour long dissertations on Youtube about Jack Kirby, Gene Colan, Steve Ditko, and many others. Without those individual styles CG fails. It doesn’t help that in the past CG figures tended to look like manikins with bad wigs staring off into space. But that’s no longer the case. I think if there’s a future for CG art in superhero comics it will be if the artists can develop their individual style in terms of format, staging, lighting, expressions and posing. Something the fan can latch onto and say, “Yeah, that’s (artist X’s) work.”
You also mentioned that this is not so true for other genres, which, inasmuch as I am work on my own comic that doesn’t belong to any of the genres that are…popular. I’d call it “domestic comedy.” I post it on the Artist Studio forum, and although it’s not exactly burning up the internet, I have a few fans, for which I’m grateful. It’s 100% DAZ right-out-of-the-box, mainly because I do this as a hobby and don’t have time for a lot of post work. Anyway, it keeps me busy and it keeps me happy and engaged. If you have a moment to check it out, you’ll find it here:
https://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/641016/comic-charlotte-s-magic-life/p1
Again, thanks for your insight.
You're very welcome, David.
I agree completely about the artist-centric aspect of superhero comics, but it wasn't always that way, although certain artists sold better than others. Jack Kirby, Carl Barks, etc. But I'd aruge that was more about the stories those artists created, and people began to recognize their art as associated with better reading. It evolved, over time, to people focusing on the art alone. But the initial interest was story based, I believe.
For genre based material comparisons we have to go back to the Silver, or Golden Age. Young Romance sold millions of copies and made Simon and Kirby a LOT of money. But people weren't focused on the art. They were more interested in the stories.
And I think of CG artists as cinematographers, deciding on lighting, composition, and staging in a 'set' or location. So, yes, I think people will recognize that, eventually. No one complains that Roger Deakins uses the same lenses, cameras, lights, or film as Rodrigo Prieto.
ComiXology Publishing is different from the ComiXology app.
What? That's super-news. I had no idea. wow.
Does that work the same way Webtoon does, where they sign exclusive deals?
With some big-name creators they did. Mostly they decide what and whom to publish on a case-by-case basis. But the publishing side has contracted along with the app staff, so I don't believe there will be any more deals, unless their business turns around.
I just wanted to sound off, say "Hi" and share what I have been working on.
Coming from a comic art background when I was younger, life got in the way and I more or less lost my skills at drawing over the years. I got into Daz around the time of Victoria 4 but went away a bit after Genesis came out. I am back and have been working on a graphic novel I hope to release next year.
This is a "test cover" or maybe just a promo poster for the work. I am about 15 pages into the work and will post more soon.
The work is rendered out then run through a few filters (Filter Forge) and then about 70% or so of the art is "re-inked" inside of Procreate on an iPad with an Apple Pencil.
I decided to go ahead and post a page.
This is page 1 from the comic...
Looks awesome, can't wait to see more.
(There is a typo: waystaion I assume should be waystation?)
Awesome, thank you. I have not had anyone proof it yet.
As a comic professional who started working traditionally in the 90's, and slowly, begrudingly incorporated and learned digital to the point that I taught it at a college level...I love using DAZ to help create my art. It's still mine, but so much faster.
Following @csaa advice and reposting the original message from this thread https://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/comment/8410761/#Comment_8410761 here as well:
Hey there guys. My name is MIke. I'm a longtime user of Daz. I have been present around here on the forums for a long time, but only post when I'm really stuck with something. I'm very shy and reserved, mostly due to experiences with online stalkers.
Aanywho, I've been working on creating a grass-roots, ground up comic book universe comprised of public domain, creative commons and open source characters. That means anyone can create their own creative projects that take place in this universe.
I'm one guy and it's a massive undertaking, so it's going to take a lot of community support to be successful.
I'm used to being attacked online and a once bitten twice shy kind of thing, so I don't want to come in here and ask anything of anyone or try to pretend that I am as involved in the community as the people I've been reading and watching take part in the community for some time.
I am a comics and entertainment professional with over 20 years of experience, I've worked for Marvel, Dark Horse and many more.
These days most of my art is digital, created with a blend of CGI and digital illustration with programs like Daz3D, Inkscape, etc.
So, if you are interested or have comments please feel free to send them here or chat me up for more details.
I'm worried that even adding my link here might be bad form, so I'll leave it to another helpful member to comment on whether I should or not.
Hope to hear from all of fellow comics lovers in the near future!
Thanks for your time,
Mike
Hey there, Mike. I'm Mike. Reminds me of college: My roommate for a while was also named Mike. And we had another buddy named Mike. Heh. People though we were making it up. Especially since roomie and I have the same initials, MM.
Are you working on any sort of PD characters? By that I mean, are you limiting it to superheroes (Black Owl, Green Turtle, Miss Murfy, Captain Battle, Lady Luck), or are you including sword and sorcery figures like early John Carter, Kull, Conan (being careful to use ONLY the stories and not comics)?
Also, what is your endgame? Do you want collaborators with whom to create comics? Or short stories? Let me know here (or if you prefer, PM me).
My end game is to have fun doing what I love for as long as I can. All PD, creative commons or Open Source characters are on the table. I belive a couple of my comic strips can explain it more fully.
Very nice, really like what you did with this and the B&W halftone style.
Really impressed and admire the work you put into this and how you pulled off the look. Good job!