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224 S 200 W, Suite #250
Salt Lake City, UT 84101
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Beginning to think DAZ needs to give me trade ins on this stuff.
DP Victoria 6 Carrara Shaders
How about this one!
i had completely overlooked that . C8 is still the official public release so they couldn't quote that as a software for genesis.
My error, but brought on by the fact that C8.5 has been beta for so long I am believing it is the latest public. LOL
Looking good Ringo.
We can use some cool Tanned skin, Asian, and other skin shaders too.
Just keeping you working my friend.
V6 - render in C 8.5
I'm still waiting to find out how much DAZ is giving me for tradin on all this stuff I wasted my money on for Genesis 1.
Sorry, I can't afford to run out and buy all new everything every time DAZ tweaks a dolly.
Autofit doesn't work. no surprise, just pointing it out.
I bought Victoria 5 and Michael 5 in Genesis 1 figures, but I still haven't used them yet, Carrara 8.5 still being in beta.
Now we have the Genesis 2 figures. Yeah, you can say that's a bit early. I don't see the dramatic differences between Genesis 1 and 2 anyway, so my cash is staying well glued to my wallet as for now.
For all those using V4,. it's actually V4.2 ..... which was updated from the original V4.
So, OK, Genesis 2 is a bit more of a rebuild, than an update,. it's got more bones, to make it more articulate and improve posing,. it's also got the Eye surface,. which genesis 1 didn't have, and was a real PITA to work around for eye reflections,. plus a bunch of other improvements on Genesis1,.
As far as I can see, there will be (at least) two figures,. male and female,. which should allow better shaping than a single hermaphrodite figure, which is then morphed to be male or female.
As far as "Does Genesis 2, work in Carrara",. ,. that's been the main point of the 8.5 beta development,... building Genesis figure support into Carrara,
There have also been a number of long time carrara issues which have been fixed, plus a bunch of improvements, and a bunch of new features which have nothing to do with supporting Daz3D content,. but are all aimed at improving the way that carrara works.
I agree that it's a bit frustrating to have the new figure launched before the release of Carrara 8.5,. but you need to put the horse before the cart. :)
If you have the "iconic shape morphs" for Genesis,. then Genesis can use the clothing you have for V4, M4, S4,.... V3,M3,S3 etc... plus any new clothing designed for genesis will also work on Genesis 2 with autofit.
There will be new clothing, hair, textures etc, designed specifically for genesis 2,. but that's only to be expected,. and nobody is forcing anyone to buy into genesis, or use it in Carrara 8.5 (when it's released).
No, ending support for one figure, so nothing new is made for it, in no way forces people to the next figure.
So basically every dime I have spent on genesis this year was wasted money. Genesis is now defunct.
Will carrara 9 work with genesis 4 when it comes out? Or will it be a 2 year wait and by the time it works with genesis 4, before C9.5 is released will genesis 5 be out?
The is ridicules. DAZ is releasing dollies fast then it can up date apps to be compatible with them. I'm waiting for the day DAZ releases a new dolly and it's months before the apps can actually use them,...... wait, to late.
Now how is G2 better then G1? Of coarse it's better for DAZ, they are selling you the morphs for G2 that came with G1. But how is that better for us?
I keep telling myself not to go on a rant because this really isn't worth the; quite literal, headache it gives me.
As much as I agree with Stan on some of his points, I have to give Daz a nod for this new marketing strategy. I think they realized they can make a whole lot more money selling add-on products than they can from their basic set (Studio, Bryce, Hexagon). So why not practically give away the modeling tool (they haven't done it with Carrara... yet), and then do continuous recreation of the objects you need to create good works. Of course, they give you the basics, but never really enough to do something mind blowing. I suspect this is why they aren't giving away Carrara like the other products - because you CAN create your own add-ons.
It doesn't take much to see this strategy in practice. How long is it taking Daz to go from G1 to G2 (I call it "Exodus") compared to how long it is taking them to go from C8 to C8.5 (much less C9).
I do believe a BETTER strategy is for Daz to get organized and release their products and add-ons simultaneously. I agree with 3DAGE. Put the horse before the cart - only to me C8.5/C9 is the horse! This would annoy people a lot less, especially us impatient souls who don't like being teased by our suppliers. Oh, and they could communicate their plans better so we can decide when to make our purchases.
Want to make customers REALLY happy? How about doing upgrade costs on products! If you bought G1 package X, get G2 package X for 50% off. Companies do this all the time.
I suppose I will purchase some G2 packages; but I do so knowing it will keep Daz in business long enough (hopefully) for them to polish up Carrara and get V9 out the door....
I certainly have no intentions of arguing with any of these points, because they all depend upon one's own point of view.
DAZ certainly is in the business of selling 3d content and whatever related products are deemed worthy of their title. But they don't purposely create new figures just to undermine the dollars already spent at their store. What they do is to constantly try and find new ways to make really cool things. When they find ground breaking new designs of a mesh that will improve the experience that they've been monitoring from their customers, they get it done and test the living crap out of it and then release it to us - where we can then decide to or not to buy it.
There are still some great artists making stuff for Generation 4 Millennium figures. There are artists who create add ons for Genesis who want to continue making things for Genesis over Genesis 2. There are some who want to work on both.
With this new technology of the Auto-Fit feature, Genesis is going to remain a valuable figure for years. I bought a bunch of Monster stuff - that will never go away! Genesis does make a great monster. But it also makes great people. I spent quite a bit on Genesis stuff - a lot of which I've never even used yet. I don't consider that a waste at all. It blows away a lot of the Generation 2 stuff I bought.
The fact is, DAZ is in a position where they really need their new gem to shine. Genesis has stirred a lot of feedback - good and bad - and more. Genesis 2 is a result of the figure designers answering to the needs of the masses. Better joint rotation in areas that people found problems with - even though Genesis blows away Generation 4 in that department, apparently. There must have been enough evidence that a single unisex doll isn't going to hold up as well as one Male and one Female. Seems fair enough to me.
I'm not trying to change anyone's mind here. But if DAZ stops developing the stuff that they do best, there will no longer be a DAZ. And that would be a shame. I already know - just because of the nature of this realm, that I'll still be wanting to collect more items for my Genesis 2 people when they release something new again. Published Artists don't just sit down and decide to screw over their fellow artists and especially their customers. Nor does this stuff get done in a day or even a week, month...
David 5 and many other Gen 5 people have just been released. There have to be a pile of projects going on to answer that. Some of us have just as hard a time with change as anyone else. So there will be plenty more Genesis stuff coming, and there's already a great amount of goods for it. So... No it is NOT a dead product. It's a rockin' product with a lot of great supporting products to back it.
You can make a guy with four arms, for heaven's sake. Generation 3 and 4 characters - and any of your Genesis creations can wear items from Gen 3, 4 and 5. Plenty of great material sets out there, poses, tools and clothes. I like the monsters! And I like progress. I love looking forward to having to buy a new figure. I don't have to. With enough imagination, I could have stopped buying a long time ago. Screw that! These 3d artists just keep getting better and better - so that's why they expand to new directions. DAZ was even kind enough, Yes... Kind enough! to add Genesis use to Carrara. They could have just gone on to Carrara 9 without any support for the new deal. They have invested a lot of time and money into this 8.5 beta. And they've made real success along the way. Some of us have been on that ride from the start - and we could see what a challenge they had to face. But they did it. I can't wait to see what DAZ comes up with next. And it's a sound bet that I'll buy it, too!
I think you I missed the point of the new figure, it certainly isn't for me to save money.
DAZ wants me to spend money? Stop making me; or thinking I'm going to, spend new money on the same thing over and over.
Judging from Dartanbeck's post, maybe I did not state my point clearly.
I don't have any beef with the many excellent 3rd party vendors out there who produce exceptional products, and mostly these are offered at an incredibly low price compared to what one would have to invest to use Maya (e.g.).
In fact, I don't even have a beef with the outstanding work Daz does in this area either. I posted my "Guardian" WIP because, TBH, I was blown away by DAZ Horse 2's realism. I'm excited with this package (and other packages including G2) and can't wait to try my simple skills on this and other products.
So I'm "sold" on these products, and understand the reasons for upgrades to stay competitive.
With all that said, as a semi-retired executive of a software company, I know it is also important to understand and stay in touch with your customer base. Autodesk can sell expensive add-on packages for Maya because they have a different client base than DAZ. My point is that, given how most software companies operate (in other industries of course), DAZ could improve (in the ways mentioned before).
To up it one more (because I just can't resist now that I'm on a roll), as an experienced software engineer and project manager, I know precisely what it takes to produce highly reliable, complex commercial software apps. And in this area, I am not impressed with DAZ. In fact, it surprises me there isn't more complaining than there is about the low reliability and poor documentation of Carrara. I suspect if we had to pay Maya prices for Carrara, there'd be a lot more on this. For me, Carrara Build 204 crashes on my high-end computer about every 4-5 hours of use. That is consistent with C8.1 (for me). 1st-2nd order reliability (up to 99% up time) is the death bell for software in other fields. 4th order reliability (99.99% up time) is the going average. But I guess that is all about expectations and what people are willing to work with.
Yes, perception is everything. The price and capability is what brought me into the Carrara fold. It is the community that is basically keeping me here, for it is to you all that I will continue to look towards to help me navigate through the troubled waters of the tool.
For that, I thank you all!
You can drive a 1920 Model T Ford too. Nobody forces you to upgrade to a post 2000 new automobile with power brakes, power steering and GPS. However, you're going to slow down traffic, be in contravention of various government by-laws concerning pollution and, most of all, you're going to have a big problem when the car breaks down and you have to look for parts. .. let alone finding a mechanic willing to repair it.
Hi Stan :)
If you look at the current situation,. Many people still use V3, M3 and V4 / M4 etc,. ...but your convinced that Genesis1 is now defunct or obsolete. ..and that's obviously not the case.
Skin textures and clothing are still being made and sold for generation 4 figures,.
and whether you see genesis 2 as another step forward in figure development, (something that's been happening since Vicky and Mike) or, something that makes all figures before it obsolete, ... is your personal opinion.
Genesis 2 is an improved "Genesis" figure,. just as V2, V3, V4, were improvements on the Vicky figure.
Did the release of V4, mean that V3 could no longer be used,. ? ...No !.
So,. why would the release of G2, mean that G1 is obsolete, ...or any other figure which you've purchased items for.
they're all still valid, and can be used wherever and whenever you want.
You have a figure,. and you have clothing, textures, poses, animations, etc,. .so there's nothing stopping you using any figure you want to use.
If you don't want to buy Genesis 2, or Victoria 6. or Michael 6,. then nobody can ever force you to.
what you buy, and when you buy it,.. are choices you make.
As far as Carrara supporting "ANY" future genesis figure,. in "ANY" future versions.
Carrara 8.5 has been fundamentally changed to support the weight mapping, auto-fit, and the other genesis technologies, along with the DSON file formats,. so unless Daz3D decide to abandon all of those features,. then ANY Genesis figure, will work in ANY future release of Carrara.
hope that makes sense :)
Rant time....
Also,. ....just some things to think about,....
There are a growing number of companies who sell software,.. who are now switching to a "licence" where you pay a fee per year, or per month, which forces users to pay constantly to use the program.
The benefits to the developers are that they no longer need to support older versions, since all their customers are using the "latest" release, (which makes software support easier) but that is also being charged for in some places. and the developers now have a continuous revenue stream, which helps them finance the development of the application.
Some people are still using C5, C6, C7, (C6 and C7 were both available on Magazine cover disks)
So, how does that support Carrara, or fund it's development ?
ALL of the development of Carrara has been funded through the sale of products in the store. (not just the sale of Carrara, or the sale of products to carrara users)
Carrara has "Never" needed any content.
it's a self contained 3D application where you can build your own content. ...so, in practical terms, the users of Carrara buy less content than the users of Daz Studio.... so, who is really funding Carrara's development. ? Me,. You,. Carrara users ?
The initial reason for Daz3D purchasing carrara, was to own a 3D application which could use their figures,. (pre Daz Studio)
since posers future, and ownership, at that time,.. was unreliable.
Daz Studio has grown into a very powerful little application,. partly due to the larger amount of users who actively help develop the features.
Carrara's manual,. yes,. you all moan about it, but only three users stepped up to assist in it's updating.
Daz studio users formed a group, and put together the "learning strips" and mini tutorials which are built into DS now.
Some food for though when complaining about Daz3D's lack of support for Carrara.
Rant completed.
that Carrara garden comp sure came along at the right time given the news of Lisa withdrawing her botanicals from the Daz store!
At least we showed we can roll our own in our favourite 3D software application!
I grabbed pretty well most of her stuff anyway.
However now I feel far more confident I can create what ever plants I need myself.
And I can even rig stuff and make it talk most of the time too!
Carrara Rocks!!!
Yes, I understand. It's all us, the buyers' fault. We're to blame for Carrara. Of course, silly me. Oh, and the plug-in developers, too. Let's not forget them. They haven't done enough.
http://youtu.be/9fY239bmffg my tute up
it works mostly, just not anymore for me!!
as you see it did when I recorded the video
I have huge file corrupt save issues in the beta now
Microsux updates I suspect because I have done this many times even on Daz cow with my own morphs
Rant time....
Also,. ....just some things to think about,....
If that's a rant, then keep it up!!
Thank you for the reality check.
Did not know about Lisa's Botanicals! That was one of the biggest advantages of the PC.... Which I haven't subscribed to in more than a year.
Did not know about Lisa's Botanicals! That was one of the biggest advantages of the PC.... Which I haven't subscribed to in more than a year.
Still Jack Tomalin keeping it paying for me!
Amen. Years ago I was thrilled to learn that Carrara could load Poser content directly from its own browser, including all the Pose dials, etc. I was disillusioned with Poser itself, especially for large scene files where I had trouble even finding some elements, e.g. a single light. Carrara was much more capable and virtually nothing was lost from using Poser. A great marketing plan from DAZ, I thought.
Then DAZ veered away to DS and Genesis. I have had very little success with DS, early on I could not even figure out how to load content. So I am still happily using C8.1 with Poser content (V4, M4, K4, F4), although the trend at DAZ seems to be much less of that content - many products have DSON versions for Poser but nothing for C8.1. I don't claim to know DAZ's business, they presumably have business reasons for their development plans. Those plans just don't match my plans as a user.
3DAGE, don't you think DAZ should have gotten everything that was supposed to work with genesis working with genesis before going to genesis 2?
More over, I never said you couldn't use previous figures. And isn't the reason for making better figures to make previous one obsolete?
What I said was how is stopping supporting a figure not pushing people to buy in to the next figure.
Does DAZ still support mil3 figures? When was the last time DAZ released something for mil4 figures?
The biggest boon for genesis wasn't the weight-mapping, it was autofit. For the first time you could use all you previous clothes on the latest figure; not to well and not too often but it did work reasonable well. For me it's failure rate, for one reason or another, is close to 75%. But it worked. With some improvements a tweaking it could have worked great. To bad it never got it.
I need a better working autofit, I need a carrara alternative to studios dynamic clothing, I need a lot of things. But another dolly certainly isn't one of them.
As Richard Hazeltine pointed out in another thread, what needed to be fixed with the geometry and joints would break what you had already going with Genesis. My guess is they must have tried and found it didn't work. I welcome the new changes to G2 and V6. It saved me a bunch of money on fix packages over at Rendo for V4 that I was going to buy in the next few days when a freelance check arrives. In fact, more than what I got V6 for and and with a freebie a day for the next few days, including a couple DT's light packs, I've already saved a bunch of money. And the headaches also of trying to get those fixes to work in Carrara. I, too, with Andy welcome the new eye geometry and they made even more fixes to the arms and wrists than what one of the best add-on fixes for V4 could do. The expressions are more natural and she no longer has that weird rounded geometry sculpt problem in the face she had with G1/V5 since they put more polygons there... she can have sharper features than V4 and better expressions. Since I think I read the jaw is articulated now, maybe bones can be put there - that would help.. I'm hoping I can fix the still odd breast shape, but it looks better already in the smaller morphs so I think there's hope. G1 can still do what I need it for so there's no loss there. I have stuff going back to the first Poser release.
Agreed. there were about four versions of V3 (at least 2 versions of M3).
V4 was in development for over a year, then remember the hilarity of M4 in Carrara? - another figure I refused to buy and then they gave him to me free in a bundle with a Carrara purchase....
G2 or G "S.A.E.".... Carrara 8.5 or 9... it's just names. The point is Genesis is STILL in development and Carrara is STILL on hold. Either way we are screwed and downloading another version at some future date with fixes and inevitably new problems...
perhaps some of the issues found during the process of "making everything work" (because it's new tech) meant that genesis 2 had to be developed.
As far as I can see, with the current 8.5 beta,. Genesis,. smart content,. Autofit etc,. does work,. ...what doesn't work for you ? All auto-fit or just some items,.. like shoes.
Adding Weight mapping for Triax, as well as retaining support for the existing Non triax figures, ...easy !. not really
Auto-fit is an existing technology (wardrobe wizard) for poser,. but now it's built in and instantly converts on the figure. but not easy either.
Hi Holly,. :)
Carrara isn't on hold :)
it's in active development along with DS. and after C8.5 is released,. the development will continue for C9
Does no one look at the backs of their figures?
Most of the time the backs are out. Doesn't matter what figure to what morph or what clothes, genesis's back is out. Now if I could get modeling in the assembly room to actually work with auto fit clothes it wouldn't be so much of an issue; yes I unchecked protected topology,
I'm not saying it happens with absolutely everything, just often enough I try to avoid using it .
Today I am rebuilding my skin shaders. To many had odd things I was forever having to tweak when I used them.
So With genesis and a setting in studio I can save a DUF of Genesis with M4 uvmapping so I can use those not cheap hirez textures I bought for M4. That is cool, any money I save moving forward is a good investment.. Same with V4, the elite pack was not cheap when I got it. The less I spend having to rebuy things the more capital I have to invest moving forward.
What I expected next was autofit2, with updates to cover more clothes and convert them better. Or maybe even pose converter so I can use all those poses I bought for M4 and V4, but, sadly, no. So my dream of having a figure designed to be backward compatible, or apps for it that will upgrade older content to suit it, are gone. Now we have a new figure, and new morphs to buy and new this and before any of that works right, it will be Genesis 3 and start it all over again with out ever finishing the last.
It's a merry-go-round I want off. I mean please let this ride come to an end and let every one off for a breather before you start it again.