The unanswered questions about V6-Genesis Evolution and other "bits"
Cybersox
Posts: 9,053
I just dug though all the existing threads and there's no been answer to these questions posted yet, so I'm putting it here in a new thread so someone who knows can answer it and everyone like me doesn't have to dig through dozens pages of chatter and uninformed speculation. (In other words, mods, that means PLEASE don't merge this with some other thread, as the whole point is to be a quick reference.)
So, here are the three questions that I have so far.
1 - Are the Genesis Evolution morphs required to make V6 (and if so, why aren't they included in either the pro or starter bundles?)
2 - If the Evolution morphs aren't necessary for V6, just what are they for, given that there's no Genesis 2 base in the store?
3 - for all the talk about V6 being more realistic, there's been no mention about the "g" area. Are we to assume that she's actually anatomically correct, or is she once again a Barbie figure?
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I can answer
Number 2: The Genesis 2 Female Starter Essentials are free in your account / product library (just search starter essentials) or, if you prefer to use it, in DIM.
Number 3: if you buy the pro bundle, you get genitals
I can answer #2 for you. There is now a Genesis 2 Starter Essentials that includes the base figure along with the standard bra top and shorts outfit as well as the Bree skin and eye textures. This is free and should be in your product library or show up in DIM as ready to download.
I know that the base figure and it's associated skin file is still very much a Barbie figure though you can apparently turn on and off the...points of the breasts.
I don't believe the morphs are required to make V6 but they are required to make one of the characters that comes with the Pro pack so I can't understand why they aren't included there.
It also doesn't list the area you referenced in #3 as being part of the pro pack though that was the case in V5/Genesis 1 so I'm hoping it's the case this time around.
Kerya, do you know if the Morphs are included in the pro pack and just not listed or do you need to buy them to be able to use the characters that come in the pro pack?
HI Kerya, thanks for the quick response but.. are you sure about # 3? Unlike previous Pro Bundles, it doesn't say anything about it in the verbiage, which seems like a rather major omission if that's supposed to be one of the selling points.
No, the morphs are not included in the Pro Bundle. The head and body morphs can be purchased individually or as a bundle (shades of Gen 3 anyone?).
Out of the box, Genesis 2 female uses V5 mapping. If you don't want to jump through hoops baking textures and saving as DUF, there is a PA product that will allow you to use V4 mapping on Genesis 2/V6.
Does anyone know for certain that the genitalia are not included in the Victoria 6 Base or the Starter Bundle?
Also, how are the Genesis 2 genitalia different from the Genesis genitalia? Because the latter fit perfectly on the Genesis 2 mesh as far as I can see.
Another thread stated to use Autofit on the gens and then apply the body texture.
From what's been said, V6 gens got nothing extra than V5 - I suppose difference is simply that it will accept V6 textures, and yes, only in Pro Bundle.
Great thanks. From what I hear the new gens don't have two textures, and I do have two textures on my old gens, so I might just use those instead.
Thanks, Jabba. "V6 textures" - hadn't thought of that!
Hmmm... so only the "pros" have genitals. 8-o I guess the rest of us muppets just get our kids from the cabbage patch?
Well, I decided to at least get the Genesis 2 Starter Base. After all, it IS free, and so there's no harm in at least checking it out.
While I do love the original Genesis model's versatility, I will admit that the Genesis 2 base does bend and flex more realistically, as well as having morphs for toes, expressions, and more that I had to buy special morphs in order to get for the original Genesis model.
That being said, I'm a bit concerned that Genesis 2 will lack the versatility that Genesis has. With the Genesis model, I could mix and match character elements to my heart's content. Take Freak 5's muscles and apply them to Victoria 5? I could do that. Apply Raw Lycan to either Victoria 5 or Michael 5 or any other character? I could do that. Mix and match monster elements from a whole host of different creatures and animals? I could do that, too.
But with Genesis 2 having different character bases for male and female, does that mean that I would be limited to the degree I could mix and match characters, creatures, and more?
Furthermore, if anybody from DAZ is reading this, I would like to see a plug-in that would help expedite using hair, clothing, etc. from previous generations for both Genesis and Genesis 2. Does anybody know of such an item?
Yeah it's called DS4 the autofit function works. I've tried LITERALLY all of my clothing items and thus far EVERYTHING for Genesis 1 fits, even the male stuff. Also I might add the earlier Victoria 4 items clothing, poses and props seem to work better with Gen2Fem than they did with Genesis 1. I'm a fan of both. I'll be using both in my work.
I think it was RawArt that said the he sees Genesis 1 as the tool to use for creating...lets call them non-standard humanoid characters. Mixing and matching just like you said. Genesis 2 is the tool you use when you need a realistic male or female human.
Where I think a lot of people are having problems with Genesis 2 is they're looking at it as a replacement for Genesis 1 instead of an additional tool.
@Sisca
YES YES ABSOLUTELY! It is simply an additional tool. I'm not getting rid of my Genesis 1 stuff anymore than a vast majority of lifers ever got rid of their V4 or M4 products. These are in addition to.
Personally I think it is a major folly to think that gender-specific mesh automatically equals to more realism.
From what I see from the blurbs of Victoria 6 and what I know from some other sources, vendors didn't support Gen1 much because it wasn't as sexy as say, Victoria 4, and it was 'uninspiring' to do 'sex sells' outfit for gender neutral figure.
But 'sexy' doesn't automatically mean 'realistic' even if we discard younger/older, fatter women of different ethnicity. People got a sexier figure with V6, true, but it doesn't mean that Genesis 1 was unrealistic only because it was less sexy or it could change into anything, or it is good only for monsters and background figures where general consensus, as I've seen it today from forum posts, already started to consolingly pigeonhole it into.
G2F might have some better points from purely technical standpoint, like separate toes, but its hands and feet, for example, lack posing controls so they aren't as easy to use, and this goes for all good technical points I currently see. And of course, you'll have to buy all morphs and much of the other stuff again - for both figures this time if you ever render males.
Personally, again, I'm finding that new G2F morphs (of body and head variety) are just slightly different shapes than old ones. Not better or 'more appropriate to female gender', just different because human body is very versatile and there is no single standard of what 'realistic' female B-cup breast shape looks like, or how collarbone area should bend (or not bend) exactly. Therefore for me there is no 100% realistic morph in any of base shapes, be it G2 or G1. Just different morphs that are all somewhat realistic. There is a lure, a charm, a glamour to think that 'new morphs' always means 'better morphs' and 'better morphs' always means 'more realistic morphs' (in this situation of gender specific figures) but it isn't always a major case.
Personally I think it is a major folly to think that gender-specific mesh automatically equals to more realism.
Not really. The human female and male bodies are different. Females tend to have their center of gravity lower, more towards their hips in part because they also have wider hips. Males tends to be higher, more towards the shoulders.
This causes their shapes when bending and moving to be different. Even just standing there is a difference in how the weight is distributed.
I'm not saying Genesis 2 has gotten this right yet but that having different meshes for male vs female will make it easier to get there in the future.
My comment about more realistic humans was mainly because of the more natural bending as well as the better expressions. Genesis 2 will be the tool you use to get those more realistic human poses/expressions. Genesis 1 will still be your go to tool for everything else. At least that how I view it.
That's why I don't see either Daz or the PA's dropping G1 anytime soon.
I'm pretty aware about anatomical differences of real world males and females and I agree that in real world it is quite hard to adjust bones and muscle mass from man to woman.
But my post was about that Genesis (which is a adjustable digital mesh) can be morphed/poses into male/female of the same 'realistisity' just as easy as Genesis 2 because G2F doesn't have it right either. Both figures react to poses in a pretty same way (from what I see currently), and I'm not seeing any beneficial 'center of gravity' effect on G2F which supposed to make it closer to RL female and justify the gender split. For believable female pose that is affected by 'center of gravity' you can adjust Genesis just as easily just by bending limbs.
Regarding the free Gen2 starter essentials (they showed up in my library), can I simply install them along the previous essentials? I love Genesis and it would enrage me if the new starter removed the earlier installment. Also, why is DSON free now??? Wasn't it supposed to be free with $20 Genesis stuff worth cart?
It's not I want to complain about, don't get me wrong (I'd have to be insane to do so). But it struck me. I wrote about the deal on DA - fellow photomanipulators would want to learn about it soon - but then, just to try, I put DSON into my cart. And guess what? ...A freebie! It's like old DAZ I learn about from ancient tales of yours :D.
Genesis 1 & 2 both get along fine in my runtime. In fact, when Studio starts up, Genesis 1 is the figure that is loaded in the scene by default. I could probably change that, but since I don't have other content for Genesis 2 yet, I'll leave the defaults where they are.
I like the new figure; so far, all of the Genesis hair and clothes I've tried autofitted with no problems. Take some time to explore the pose controls, too; there's stuff in there (like individual toe controls) that the original Genesis doesn't have.
The render below is a quickie I did (I really need to get to bed) with Genesis 2 Base Female, the underwear that came with her (I added different shaders), Gregoria hair, and Sheer Greatness. The pose is one of the Genesis 2 poses; the light was just a simple distant light.
It's nice, Riftwitch, thank you for your concern! I'll run the installer immediately. I also had a laugh of the week when V4.2 finally managed to initialize themselves, so yay! I'll see Rhulana the amazon now :D.
It took me a while to work out the logic but that's what I think has happened.
LG
Yep. Just like last time-they don't want V6 and M5 or 6 breeding and creating free characters.
Hmmm... so only the "pros" have genitals. 8-o I guess the rest of us muppets just get our kids from the cabbage patch?
It took me a while to work out the logic but that's what I think has happened.
Not true. There are 2 other figures in the V6 Pro bundle: Norma and Nyssa and both of them require the Genesis 2 Female morphs to use. Nyssa is also included in the V6 Standard bundle and she requires both the body and head morphs to use.
So, why aren't these morphs included in one or both of these bundles?
Not true. There are 2 other figures in the V6 Pro bundle: Norma and Nyssa and both of them require the Genesis 2 Female morphs to use. Nyssa is also included in the V6 Standard bundle and she requires both the body and head morphs to use.
So, why aren't these morphs included in one or both of these bundles?
My answer copied from Snowsultans thread
Yes…but the assumption would have been that people would try the GEN2 female before buying the V6 pro bundle. Obviously they should have had that in people’s DIM earlier than they did which is why we(myself included) were so confused by it.
Just checked the V5 pro bundle…the morphs are included but as part of the Genesis starter essentials bundle. Maybe there should have been a Gen2 female starter bundle of some sort prior to releasing V6 then it could have been included
Will you still be able to say that next year? Unlikely. As the quirks of Gen2 are improved and Studio continues to update, the point will come when DAZ decides to cut support for Gen1. At that point, it's very questionable whether or not Gen1 will even load when Studio starts up.
After all, can you use an old Genesis model from early 2012 in today's 4.6 Studio? nope. That's why the Essentials keep getting updated. And if you think they are going to divert resources from the Gen2 models to update an old Gen1, then think about this-
They weren't even going to continue V4 support for Gen2 until a PA saved the day with the conversion tool. The chances are zero for Genesis getting saved when that day comes.
Not true. There are 2 other figures in the V6 Pro bundle: Norma and Nyssa and both of them require the Genesis 2 Female morphs to use. Nyssa is also included in the V6 Standard bundle and she requires both the body and head morphs to use.
So, why aren't these morphs included in one or both of these bundles?
My answer copied from Snowsultans thread
Yes…but the assumption would have been that people would try the GEN2 female before buying the V6 pro bundle. Obviously they should have had that in people’s DIM earlier than they did which is why we(myself included) were so confused by it.
Just checked the V5 pro bundle…the morphs are included but as part of the Genesis starter essentials bundle. Maybe there should have been a Gen2 female starter bundle of some sort prior to releasing V6 then it could have been included
So, if I get what you are saying. You MUST purchase the Gen2 female morphs separately to use the V6 pro bundle?
2 of the characters in the V6 Pro Bundle require the Evolution Morphs, which are not in the bundle. The exact same is true of the V5 Pro Bundle.
My answer copied from Snowsultans thread
Yes…but the assumption would have been that people would try the GEN2 female before buying the V6 pro bundle. Obviously they should have had that in people’s DIM earlier than they did which is why we(myself included) were so confused by it.
Just checked the V5 pro bundle…the morphs are included but as part of the Genesis starter essentials bundle. Maybe there should have been a Gen2 female starter bundle of some sort prior to releasing V6 then it could have been included
So, if I get what you are saying. You MUST purchase the Gen2 female morphs separately to use the V6 pro bundle?
If you want to use the character sets included yes you do.
I'm sorry I even posted this comment at the moment. I agree with many that the arrival of this product could have been handled better.
Reading through Snowsultan's post enabled me to make a connection that I hadn't previously understood and I wanted to share it. Now I wish that I hadn't bothered...: (
2 of the characters in the V6 Pro Bundle require the Evolution Morphs, which are not in the bundle. The exact same is true of the V5 Pro Bundle.
Actually Mike there are morphs included in the V5 Pro bundle but that's because they are part of the Genesis Starter's Essential Bundle. I mentioned that in one of my earlier posts. I'm going in to lurk mode as emotions are running too high in these threads.
cheers
Pen