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Will you still be able to say that next year? Unlikely. As the quirks of Gen2 are improved and Studio continues to update, the point will come when DAZ decides to cut support for Gen1. At that point, it's very questionable whether or not Gen1 will even load when Studio starts up.
After all, can you use an old Genesis model from early 2012 in today's 4.6 Studio? nope. That's why the Essentials keep getting updated. And if you think they are going to divert resources from the Gen2 models to update an old Gen1, then think about this-
They weren't even going to continue V4 support for Gen2 until a PA saved the day with the conversion tool. The chances are zero for Genesis getting saved when that day comes.
Yeah, this is what I'm afraid of, too. I personally like Genesis the way it works, and I also think it's ridiculously soon to be releasing yet another "generation."
It's pretty obvious the motive is to squeeze as much $ out of the customers, as now even if you get the "pro" bundle, you STILL have to shell out another $20 for the morphs that OUGHT to be included in the first place.
Will you still be able to say that next year? Unlikely. As the quirks of Gen2 are improved and Studio continues to update, the point will come when DAZ decides to cut support for Gen1. At that point, it's very questionable whether or not Gen1 will even load when Studio starts up.
After all, can you use an old Genesis model from early 2012 in today's 4.6 Studio? nope. That's why the Essentials keep getting updated. And if you think they are going to divert resources from the Gen2 models to update an old Gen1, then think about this-
They weren't even going to continue V4 support for Gen2 until a PA saved the day with the conversion tool. The chances are zero for Genesis getting saved when that day comes.
Is that really true? Do you have a Genesis from 2012 that won't load into DS 4.6?
I was under the impression that the reason they kept updating the Starter Essentials was because they were updating Genesis itself not due to changes in DS. After all, you can still use V1, 2, 3, 4 in DS 4.6.
I know that when I upgraded to 4.6 from 4.5 I had to re-install the starter essentials but I thought that was due to them changing Genesis itself to take advantage of new features available.
If that's the case and they decided to drop support of Genesis 1 with DS 7 for example then you could just opt to not upgrade to that version. Heck, there are still a lot of people on these forums using DS 3 because it works for them.
The thing with technology is that it's going to continue to move forward. If you want to use the latest and greatest you have to move with it. This means change and expense.
For me, DS and it's content are a tool I use. I can keep upgrading that tool as new improvements come out or I can look at the upgrades and figure that the current tool is good enough for me.
As I just posted in another thread, all this speculation about DAZ abandoning Genesis is going way beyond the evidence and meeting trouble seven-eighths of the way. Please drop it.
These are concerns that Daz's customers have. They will continue to have them even if you ban them from voicing these concerns.
A way to seriously quash this speculation would be for Daz to address the subject, instead of demanding the customers stop asking questions, don't you think?
The Genesis 1 is the far more versatile figure. It would be insane for Daz to even consider dropping support for it and it would be a huge slap in the face to everyone who has purchased products for their Genesis 1 figures.
Genesis 2 is of limited use. If you need extreme close ups of a human figure then it's nice to have, but otherwise Genesis 1 is a much more useful figure. I think the problem people have with the figure is simply a marketing mistake. It never should have been named Genesis 2 since it doesn't embody any of the principles that made Genesis, Genesis. It would have made more sense to call these figures Victoria 6 and Michael 6 (and presumably The Kids 6 at some point in the future) and save the name Genesis 2 for when they come out with a new all-in-one mesh that embodies the true spirit of the Genesis line. I would not be surprised if a new update in the near future drops the Genesis 2 moniker completely and puts to ease the concerns of users that the original Genesis 1 figures are going to be deleted.
Given that you can still use older figures in Daz with no problem, it is just that new products are not made for them I can't imagine Daz doing something as foolish as actively sabotaging the performance of the Genesis 1 figures or even forcing a deletion of the figures with an update.
From an economic standpoint it would make more sense to continue designing clothing and props for the Genesis 1 figures since Genesis 2 has an acceptable autofit and what doesn't autofit directly can easily be tweaked by the designer until it does. This way you have a market base of people who prefer to use one or the other or both and it will also allow unisex clothing options which Genesis 2 does not.
Looking at the Genesis 2 as a Genesis figure I'd have to say its a complete an utter failure. But looking at it as a continuation of the Victoria and Michael lines I'd say it's a success.
Simply put, it never should have been called Genesis 2.
Incidentally, how old is the Genesis 1 figure?
How long on average is it between generations for the various figures and what has been the average lifespan of a figure.
Presumably at some point there will be a Genesis 3 and hopefully when there is Daz will return the Genesis line back to its original All-In-One status.
This is my first post in this forum. Please excuse my bad english.
I don't understand the meaning of the argument DAZ is trying to make money with the new G2 figure. Most part of my life I didn't try anything else. A company with employees SHOULD do this. But then - G2 is for free. So - me - I can't find an argument for the question "is it worth the money?"
DAZ could make even more 3D-Models, big ones, small ones, funny ones, scarry ones. Separated, all in one - why not? What's bad?
It's me to consider if I need those or not. It is not the decission of the company, it's my descission, the consumer. And I'm glad if I have many choices.
But ...
... I use DAZ studio only in my rare spare time. And I must say in the last year I wasn't very creative. Because most of this time I spent with converting. Converting poses, converting shoes, exporting, importing, realoding, deleting ... trying again. I learned many thing about this processes I wasn't really interested in. That's not - what software was made for. Especially if you offer software for creativity.
For me that's the question, the argument and the central point for my decissions: are these 3D-Models compatible? For me that's the only question. Can I uses my morphs I created in long winter afternoons on this summers new figure. No?
But ...
... I don't want to start over and over again with the poses and morphs and things I made. After a year of doing that I want to become creative again and make some funny renders.
I think that's the main reason why people complain. They shurely will like G2 - but they don't like to begin with her again from the start.
I don't think people are tired from those new products or from spending money. They are tired from all those compatibility questions and converting tools and processes.
I think people got tired to keep four different versions of one clothes on their harddrive just for compatibility reasons. That was the good idear with the genesis figure - an universial figure so all the stuff: morphs, poses, clothes you have to make only once. And you haven't to spent hours/days/month converting them when a new 3D-Models is offered that seems to be better than the previous.
It has become some kind of a psychologicial problem: every time we are arguing against a new figure BECAUSE we like her (and having in mind how much sweat it will need till we got here dressed up well). So this not a question if I use G2 instead of G1. I will like both. I like them all. But I simply am afraid of liking her too much - so I will do all this work for her again that I don't like to do.
So, dear DAZ, make many new models. But please keep them compatible with each other. This deal doesn't feel good: three times the same morph bundle for three different figures. For me - the customer - this deal feels good: three diffrerent morph bundles for one figure. I think that's what my arguing is about. Poor little G2. She isn't bad. But I'm somekind afraid of her.
Will you still be able to say that next year? Unlikely. As the quirks of Gen2 are improved and Studio continues to update, the point will come when DAZ decides to cut support for Gen1. At that point, it's very questionable whether or not Gen1 will even load when Studio starts up.
After all, can you use an old Genesis model from early 2012 in today's 4.6 Studio? nope. That's why the Essentials keep getting updated. And if you think they are going to divert resources from the Gen2 models to update an old Gen1, then think about this-
They weren't even going to continue V4 support for Gen2 until a PA saved the day with the conversion tool. The chances are zero for Genesis getting saved when that day comes.
...and that is what makes me apprehensive about adopting the new version. I like the original Genesis (which I refer to as "Genesis Classic") as well endowed sway backed supermodels, play a very small part in the work I do. I can see the very likelihood that we sill not have the full collection of "legacy" body shapes we now have with Genesis Classic as it is up to the PA whether he or she feels it would be worth the time and work . The other downsides of this is that UV mapping, as well as the Autofit tool require the body shapes so they an be applied to G2F.
I like the versatility of the original Genesis. With the original I am able to mix morphs and aspects of a wide variety of characters together, including toon/realistic fusions.
Until YT5 came out I was struggling to create the teen characters in my story. I pretty much stayed with Gen4 (as I had Steph4 who worked a lot better that Vicky for creating teens and pre teens as she had better breast and proportioning morphs). When I got Generation X and the V4/M4/S4 shapes, I was able to transfer the morphs I used in their creation to Genesis and got improved results. With YT5 my workflow became much more streamlined. The recent additions of merchant resource morph kits, joint bend enhancements, and "squish" morphs has made character creation just that much better.
G2F just seems too limited at this juncture and a bit like going back to just the base Vicky all over again.
So for my purpose, Genesis Classic is the best choice.
My fear is, as you mention, that PAs and Daz will be so keen on developing new items for their new arrival, that the original Genesis will be ignored. Just look at the New Releases over the last couple days. 45 for G2/V6 (if you include the updated Genesis Starter essentials) vs. 0 for any other content, including props, light sets, scene sets, and vehicles. For that fact, how much Gen4 specific content was released over the last year compared to that for Genesis?
Thankfully I have Marvelous Designer, Blender, and the CCTs.
Actually Mike there are morphs included in the V5 Pro bundle but that's because they are part of the Genesis Starter's Essential Bundle. I mentioned that in one of my earlier posts. I'm going in to lurk mode as emotions are running too high in these threads.
cheers
Pen
Sorry Pen. Just for the record, there was not one smidge of emotion in my question. Just wanted to be sure I understood the facts. I did go to the thread you mentioned and got what I needed as well. So THANK YOU!
Wellcome Rotunda,
LoL, that you say reminds me a famous Korean Olympic master coach in archery who said: "For some mysterious reason, all of 100% beginners always shoot their first arrow directly into the center of the target" (end of quotation)
As well, if you browse the V6 threads (there are now several) you will notice that people do not mainly post their renders as "My best render" but as "My beautifull convert".
Soon a $4 rewarded challenge titled "The price-winner convert of the month" ?
I don't even know what you just said. Can someone tell me what it means to bake textures and save as DUF. I would like to be able to use v4 mapping on v6 especially if free is possible... or is it a headache using this method and the pa product the better way to go?
I don't even know what you just said. Can someone tell me what it means to bake textures and save as DUF. I would like to be able to use v4 mapping on v6 especially if free is possible... or is it a headache using this method and the pa product the better way to go?
And this is why NOT using V4 mats was a seriously dumb move on DAZ's part.
(Edit: I totally bolluxed up my original explanation, so I'm just cutting it..)
Fortunately, a PA named MallenLane did a lot of what DAZ should have done, and it's available here: http://www.daz3d.com/victoria-4-for-genesis-2-female (There will also be an upgrade of GenX to convert at least some older character morphs to Genesis 2, but D3D has stated that due to the work involved it won't be a completely free update.)
Perhaps I'm misunderstanding, but I think this is completely wrong. Alternate UV maps have nothing to do with clone shapes. MallenLane's product combines 3 features: the V4 base shape for G2F, the autofit clone, and the UV set. It's a logical set of features to bundle together, but the 3 are independent and you don't need an autofit clone to have a UV set.
Perhaps I'm misunderstanding, but I think this is completely wrong. Alternate UV maps have nothing to do with clone shapes. MallenLane's product combines 3 features: the V4 base shape for G2F, the autofit clone, and the UV set. It's a logical set of features to bundle together, but the 3 are independent and you don't need an autofit clone to have a UV set.
No, you're right. I was originally going to talk about both autofit and the mats, and then got muddled backwards. WHich is why people shouldn't post when they haven't slept...
Well, there go half of my posts...
[edited to fix sleepy typo]
I feel very the same. I'm mainly Genesis gatherer, because it allows me to use the content for many figures. MFD for Genesis if a far better deal than, let's say, V4 version. To have the ability to use the latter version for A4, let's say, I'd have to buy its unimesh. Whereas Geesis one caters for all popular figures. I even can put Anubis into a Genesis tutu skirt or whatever.
Lastly, don't worry about your English. It's pretty understandable and I noticed only two or three spelling mistakes, which are what happens to all of us :). Regards!
......
I feel so out of date. I'm still using V4 and Daz 3 for a majority of my work due to the plethora of freebies I've accumulated. I'm starting to learn the new Daz 4.6, but knowing my luck I'll be fluent in it by the time Daz Studio 5 comes out.
But with the bridge between Daz 4 and Hexagon, people could just make their own morphs instead of buying them, assuming they have rudimentary 3d modeling skills (I may be wrong, as I haven't experimented with this in depth because until recently I didn't have a computer powerful enough).
I mean for me Genesis is still new and shiny. Now they're coming out with another genesis and V6... either it's my imagination or the release of new base models is becoming more frequent.
in my opinion you would think daz would want to create a well developed, fully developed model rather than have to allow pa's to come in with morphs and add on necessity products... to me this is just daz falling short of producing good full rounded creative content -- the only add ons should be those that people 'want' for creative differences - it sounds like most people expect morphs to be a provided asset
if I were writing a program for a company and let's say I leave out the error code reporting, they would not want to have to pay another programmer to come in and add a patch to report all the error code messages... they would expect me to provide those error messages as a part of the base program
Let's say they do create this fully developed figure. It was created with their perception of what a fully developed figure is. Even if they did that people would still complain and not like something because everybody has different artistic viewpoints and tastes. Hense why morph packs and addons exist because a PA might look at the released figure, and as perfect as it might seem, might not like the look of it or what it has to offer and would want to add things to what they think users will like and answer to a particular demand. Also if this figure contained all these options from the get go, do you know what a nightmare it would be for content creators? They would have to go through more aspects to check for possible conflicts etc to see how to intergrate their product which would lead to less support. By releasing these options as addons, you keep the cost of the base figure down, keep resource usage down, and do not force people into having things they might never use. By releasing addons and morph packages, customers have a choice if they need\want it at all and are not conformed to one particular style. Would you pay $600 (probably more, and everybody has that kind of money) for a figure that did it all?. OR get a base for free and buy content that you only need that you find appealing? You also need to take into account that not everybody has a super fast rig, and such a figure might be unusable to most, meaning less support and even more complaints.
well stated
No, but I can't see why it should be more expensive to have the base options from scratch, than buying it as separate packages. I bought not only all of your additional morphs for Gen1, but also some others and I'm still far away from this price (To be clear, I do not speak about special morphs for any possible creature).
Personally I see G2/V6 as an add on to the genpool, I will use it for new items that are not available for Gen1, but for sure I will use the old lady, too with all the stuff I already bought. I see no reason to purchase items again, but I'm sure there will be a lot of interesting new stuff.
Let's say: different people have different needs. A product to fulfill all needs? Even an iphone can't heal toothaches. An example would be this gential-thing: would a perfect figure have genitals? Frogs, so I read somewhere, can change their gender spontaneous ...
That's why I think the G1 was a big step forward. I lately tried out this geo-grafting thing. As I sometimes desire less polys and sometimes I wish I had more polys - I thought this may be the future: instead of having different models you could replace a part of the figure with a high-poly part when needed.
A house that transforms in a car, when you need a car an then again transforms into a dentist when you need a dentist - this might be the perfect product. But what if it's raining and you have toothaches at the same time? There is always a reason to complain. There is a species of ants, so I read recently, that got rid of the males. Because the females learned to fertilize themselves. But I don't know if those ants complain too. Didn't read anything about that.
To divide the polys in adam and eve - for me it seems a little bit "outdated" as there is no need for the categories of biology in the fields of geometry.
But where do I get if I follow this thought further on?
Perhaps the perfect 3D-Model would be a simple ball with a few millions of polys that you can morph into a motocycle or into a Claudia Schiffer clone.
Hm ...
... but it wouldn't be that easy to sell a simple ball as the perfect 3D-Model. 600 $ for a ball? With no nipples? Maybe people would complain again.
So better to offer a Claudia Schiffer clone and keep the ball for later. People want to buy figures not mathematics. I think so, because all kids complain about mathematics. None about Claudia Schiffer. But a mathematician may think that there's no big difference. Both are well formed polys.
So I could argue that every 3D-model is perfect. The question is: in which and how many cases? O. K. let's state that under this point of view G1 is more versatile than G2. G1 is also more versatile than a tree prop.
But this doesn't mean I have - with G1 on board - no use for tree props anymore. That's why I don't understand the discussion. It's like you have a knife and someone offers you a fork and you answer: no, I don't need a fork because I have a knife. Much more interesting would be the discussion: can I combine them? Is there a benefit if I have both? Can I cut the upper part from G2 and put it on the lower part of G1? I mean, doing things similar to what the frogs and the ants can do.
Oh, I really thought that. With the genesis figure and this geo-grafting thing there would be many different body parts: alien hands, dinosaur legs and - o.k. - female breasts. All to mount on the genesis figure. I thought genesis would become some kind of construction kit where you can add the polys you need (same modular principle as we have with the morphs already).
So G2 is not what I personally expected for the future. But all this arguing has completely nothing to do with her. I'm completely out of topic. I'm talking about ants and frogs and dinosaur legs.
G2 is perfect as all 3D-Models are. She's not the three million poly ball, she is no tree, she has not the legs I wanted. But, hey - the same thing I could say about myself. So I would reply: nobody is perfect. And this is where you arrive if you finish this thought.