I want V4 Products not V5 or V6. Planned Obsolescence Has To Stop.
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Are you being sarcastic? Or are there any statistics about how many people use a figure that I don't know about?
Because from what I can tell Genesis is practically dead at every store except the DAZ store. And Genesis 2...well it's not even very well supported at the DAZ store. So going by your own argument, for a great part of the market 'the money' still seems to be with V4.
And it seems to me that what some people here call 'diehards' - and maybe it's just me, but is there a touch of condescendence in that word? - is more commonly known as 'Poser user'.
Statistically speaking, if they were supporting gen 1, they'll move on to gen 2. Esp if/when the sales figures dwindle. The market is really determined by customers and what they physically purchase. Its sort of like the saying money talks. "If you guys want to see more stuff for certain figures, buy it" Is the best I can say on that end.
I will say tho, my sales on gen 4 stuff have been fine... I haven't really seen much of a hit there. But I think everyone's experience is different.
Regarding "die hard".... I dont think its condescending at all... it depends on how you take it, I guess. I look at myself as a die-hard. It basically means while some bailed for the latest, we die-hards remained loyal and unwavering to the figure and app we love. I dont think Frank meant anything bad by it. His wife and I are besties, and we both love our poser.
Are you being sarcastic? Or are there any statistics about how many people use a figure that I don't know about?
Because from what I can tell Genesis is practically dead at every store except the DAZ store. And Genesis 2...well it's not even very well supported at the DAZ store. So going by your own argument, for a great part of the market 'the money' still seems to be with V4.
And it seems to me that what some people here call 'diehards' - and maybe it's just me, but is there a touch of condescendence in that word? - is more commonly known as 'Poser user'.
Genesis 2 appears to me to be as well-supported as Genesis 1 was at the equivalent time after its release.
As for Genesis not being supported anywhere but here... well, I could do some trawling for products over at Rendo, but the fact that I'd need to trawl for them supports your argument. (And I can find at least one outfit at Poser World for every Poser and Daz figure... except Genesis.)
(And I've never used Poser, but I still use V4... and A3.)
Every time I see the "Genesis is Dead Everywhere But Daz" argument, one simple reply always comes to mind.
Why would anyone want to try to sell Genesis content somewhere else? If someone sells a Genesis item here, it's going to make a hell of a lot more money.
Genesis has been the easiest gateway to working with Daz3d, to working with a quality assurance team that actually knows what they're doing, to working with a quality assurance team that can answer your questions and help you grow as an artist... Hell, to working with a quality assurance team that actually tests things.
Edited by Moderator with Poster's permission
removed my post.
I've bought Genesis items simply because they looked good and were on sale. Stocking up for the future. But I have yet to ever use Genesis or install any Genesis items. I'm sure my computer is too old to handle it.
Since I have not saved up enough money for a new computer, I still use V4, M4.
And still purchase Generation 4 stuff if there's a good sale.
So I guess I'm a 'diehard' . . . . . except the thing is, I'm also a Daz user. Version 3 Standard.
After 29 centuries, the finest clothing is still made from silk. Old tech doesn’t hold you back. Old thinking holds you back.
That's only because the natural stuff is far more costly to produce than the new-fangled artificual stuff these days. And in some cases, the natural stuff is much rarer.
Genuine vanilla is far more expensive than vanillin (I hate artificial vanillin-- it tastes so one-dimensional compared to real vanilla extract-- this tends to be the case with natural peppermint and fruit flavorings as well *by natural I mean from the actual product it's meant to be a flavor of-- as opposed to say-- flavoring tea with strawberry myrtle leaves and passing it off as "naturally flavored strawberry tea")
Likewise, beryls and corundums can be synthesized for the cheap, but the natural stuff from the mines is 50~100x more valuable, despite its lower level of luster and clarity (though many like the oid fashioned, natural stuff because they say it looks more natural)
Same issue with leather and fur (though the polymer *plastic* imitation leathers usually do suck)
Gen 4 is definitely still the fave on Renderosity and RDNA (esp. RDNA)
Why would anyone want to try to sell Genesis content somewhere else? If someone sells a Genesis item here, it’s going to make a hell of a lot more money.
From the looks of it, if someone releases a product for sale on DAZ, they're not allowed to sell it anywhere else-- or if they are, I've never seen it-- I have-- maybe in a single instance, seen a product sold here also for sale on another 3D site. However, people can market products on Renderosity and also sell them on other 3D sites-- I've seen this quite a lot. This leads me to believe that merchants must make an agreement with DAZ to sell their products purely as DAZ exclusives, should they wish to sell products in the DAZ Store. If true, then it is more than understandable that many merchants would prefer to sell their content on Renderosity, RDNA, or ContentParadise/SmithMicro (though I think CP/SM screws the customer over with their whole "you have to pay extra money if you want your downloads to be available for more than a day, even if it's a product you paid for" BS that NONE of the other big Poser vendors do...!), or, in the case of Pretty3D and Xurge3D, on their own sites.
And yet sales tell a completely different story to the things being said in these very forums. The constant stream of threads about slutwear, yet it sells like hotcakes. The continual posting about the lack of male clothing yet you can't make a week's rent off it's sales. Things like that show that the posting in the forums is a minority of buyers, not the majority.
Some PA's listen to what is being said in the forums, and some even do there very best to accommodate you all. I'm working on flat 'ranger' boots because of a thread in this very forum. But it is sales that ultimately win our attention not the flogging of the poor old equestrian ;P
As for Genesis stuff not being readily available elsewhere, I can say this .... I have never made as much money on sales as I do here at Daz, and I don't believe that I am one of the very 'top' earners. So what would entice me to sell my items elsewhere?
Well I think one of the reasons u see more genesis stuff here is because, there isnt a widely available assortment of tutorials and docs to teach a person how to make genesis content. And merely knowing how to rig before simply isnt enuff. PA's at DAZ do have the benefit of being able to ask techy questions on how to do things, whereas vendors from other stores don't have that same benefit.
Also, a lot of the older vendors which outfit these circuits are Poser users. If u've been around as long as I have, there was a time when there was no DAZ Studio. And thereafter, it took awhile for it to catch on. So these older vendors may not use Studio at all... or the ones that do may have had a hard time adapting to it, to use it to the point where they do their Poser stuffs. Its a lot even for some ppl to simply put in DS mats, let alone, rig for an entirely new tech.
Also, I think customers are getting too comfortable in their expectations of what a circuit supports. For example, everyone saying well Rendo is a Gen 4 store. Lulling yourselves into that mindset will make it so when ppl do support Gen at Rendo (or even Gen 4 here) you will likely miss it, coz of your own expectations and preconceived notions as to what is generally sold where. So I would say to try to keep and open mind there. Even if its not today, there is a chance DAZ and other stores may support things they're not supporting now in plenty.
Not arguing tho that DAZ is the best place to sell. I just think that the core of Genesis content is so saturated here for namely the above reasons. But, I will say I have decent gen 4 sales here.... so everyone's experience is different. We sell what sells, like Xena said.
Is it, though? I admit my memory of that time is kind of fuzzy, but I think Genesis and V5 appeared with a bit of a louder bang. But I could be wrong. In any way, the figure is new. So it's (naturally) not very well supported (yet). I guess I should have added the 'yet' part in my original post. But then again I was trying to refute the "Most people have moved on to the new figures" thing and it might have sounded like I agree with that which I don't. Neither do I think it is true now nor am I certain it will be true anytime soon.
Well that sounds more like assumption that a fact. Although I figure you may be right and that this is probably the main reason why the market is mostly split between DAZ and pretty much all other stores. Although there still may be other factors, some people might not like DAZ in general, others may be creatures of habit who don't want to change their tried and tested environment. Others might wanna create stuff that...erm...cannot easily be sold at DAZ. And so on. I mean there ARE people who sell Genesis content at other sites - we're not gonna assume they're just all stupid, are we?
Also the point is not whether or not it is smart to sell Genesis stuff somewhere other than DAZ. It's that a lot of content creators did not adopt Genesis and decided to stick with V4. Thus they don't even have to face that question. You may say that their stuff is just 'low quality' or at least not sufficiently tested or that they miss the opportunity to 'grow as artists', but frankly, I personally have made about as much disappointing purchases in the DAZ shop as I made on other sites. Imho it usually comes down to the individual artist. Sometimes to the individual product, even ~~
The thing is, you can't claim on in one sentence "Victoria 6 is the most used figure EVVAAARRR!" and then say "also I exclude the entire part of the 3D world that is NOT the DAZ shop from my statement" in the next. Well you can, but you'll look silly.
" bold lettering mine"
I totally agree, BUT, in order to buy a product for a certain figure, it has to be available. And products for Gen4 are few and very far between here at DAZ3D.
And I think that was the whole point of the opening post.
just my two cents, and now I will go back into lurk mode ;)
Yeah, unfortunately. And thats because other vendors (not myself, in this case) have seen better profit for Genesis, with less work. Gen 4 is dated content... and it has a high saturation factor. So, unless you create really far out hasn't been done content (while keeping it generally appealing to the widest customer) your sales may not be as good. It is a vicious cycle tho - sales become fatigued from ppl not buying it, then vendors move onto genesis and not do gen 4 anymore. But with the obvious lack of gen 4 stuff, you cant buy to prove that statistic wrong.
As far as Genesis goes, I dunno how it sells, as Ive not had a set release yet. I do, however, have 2 in the pipeline now, as well as a gen 4 equivalents for them that will come thereafter, so we will see which side does better. Or I will see anyway lol
Well, the assumption is based on every other figure thats come before it - most ppl leap to the latest and greatest. But its only that.... an assumption based on sales data. It doesn't necessarily have to happen that way at all. You guys can change the fate of anything, be it add on, supporting or figure based proddies. But its not solely dependent on everyone in the forums... but also ppl who never read them. DAZ has a crapload of customers.
I've bought Genesis items simply because they looked good and were on sale. Stocking up for the future. But I have yet to ever use Genesis or install any Genesis items. I'm sure my computer is too old to handle it.
Since I have not saved up enough money for a new computer, I still use V4, M4.
And still purchase Generation 4 stuff if there's a good sale.
So I guess I'm a 'diehard' . . . . . except the thing is, I'm also a Daz user. Version 3 Standard.
Denny L
I am glad to see that I am not the only one still using DS 3 and M/V4 models. All of my works are animations and there is a little more latitude of acceptance with image degradation with animations then with a static image. I am also happy with the plug-ins for DS3 that has minimize me having to do more post production. So my old clunker computer system and aging DS3 software will just still have accommodate all my current needs. At some future date I guess I will update my system, but this will mean that I will have to make a serious decision if I am ready to learn a new DS 4.6 application.
Just my 'diehard' two cents here and applauding those who still hang on to what fits them best.
True about the current thinking at DAZ. Once there is competition from a figure comparable to Genesis/Roxie (possibly even better than either) that will work natively in both Poser or DS ... who knows.
Pre Genesis, DAZ flagship figures worked natively in both DS and Poser.
Smith Micro does have flagship figures for Poser ... which do not work in DS or in the earlier versions of Poser. But as long as both companies only provide technically advanced figures that are only capable of working fully in their program and not the other, the community will continue to be split. Many of us believe that split is detrimental to the community.
This is HIGHLY unlikely to happen from Daz. Their program is Studio, and their flagship figures always work flawlessly in their program. Perhaps Smith Micro could make a flagship figure for their program?
My gripe is not with new characters and new content to support them. In fact, i think it's wonderful how much new content is available for genesis 2. My chief complaint is when there's so much of it that I already own and I'm expected to pay full price for it again. I know somebody has modify it, but to me upgrades just seem like the cost of good customer relations.
I love new stuff and new functionality and genesis delivers both of those. But I still use my v4 and m4 content alongside Genesis content. They're not mutually exclusive. And they are certainly not obsolete. But as content creators, there's no point going backwards.
No one said "Victoria 6 is the most used figure EVVAAARRR!". They said V6 has had the most successful RELEASE.
It seems a lot of people are having a really hard time differentiating between the two.
Coldrake
No one said "Victoria 6 is the most used figure EVVAAARRR!". They said V6 has had the most successful RELEASE.
It seems a lot of people are having a really hard time differentiating between the two.
Coldrake
I have a hard time believing V6 had the most successful release.
I took the statement for being what I still believe it is.
A Marketing ploy.
I have a hard time believing V6 had the most successful release.
I took the statement for being what I still believe it is.
A Marketing ploy.
Given how slow downloads were during the initial days, I'm willing to believe it, but obviously only DAZ 3D has the data to back it up, and even if they were willing to release it (which no company does voluntarily), it would be up to each person to decide if they believe those numbers.
Also, I think customers are getting too comfortable in their expectations of what a circuit supports. For example, everyone saying well Rendo is a Gen 4 store. Lulling yourselves into that mindset will make it so when ppl do support Gen at Rendo (or even Gen 4 here) you will likely miss it
You'd have to be living under a rock to miss Sickleyield's and Fuseling's Genesis extravaganza over at Renderosity. ...That, or uninterested in freebies.
I have a hard time believing V6 had the most successful release.
I took the statement for being what I still believe it is.
A Marketing ploy.
Shape Shift for Genesis2 is outselling the Genesis1 version (not by much, but its in the lead from the separate product sales). So its not a ploy. It's a fact. I was suprised myself but sales figures do not lie. So I honestly do believe the statement from Daz. If a Genesis2 version of a product is selling better than a Genesis1 version, I see no reason why v6 can't sell better than its predecessors.
Im of the completely opposite opinion.
I think for gen7, we need a clean and total break from v4/m4 or any previous generation.
I too own a vast, expensive runtime of v4/5/6 and m4/5 and hopefully soon 6. But I find too often a new generation is hamstrung in so many ways by having to support previous gen items.
Its time for a truly new generations, with advanced capabilities, and deeper realism. If that means finally cutting free of the shackles of previous generations, then so be it.
I want more realism, flexibility and versatility -I dont need my existing runtime to be catered to.
As a snake, yeah, guess I do lol All joking aside tho, I had no idea. I dont frequent Rendo (the store I shop from, and may upload a pic occasionally... but don't usually haunt the freebies or anything)
And Silver and Sabby and RM doing morphs and textures and SAV doing morphs, textures and hair with Genesis fits. Not too mention DariosFish's fab aliens and demons. Every day there seems to be more and more over there.
And previous Generation support doesn't hinder that at all. I don't know how much you may or may not be aware, but ever since the Genesis To Genesis 2 tutorial we've pretty much found out that anything for the sake of realism can very well be done on a unisex figure that supports previous generations. They really weren't kidding when they said that Genesis 2 was build on the original Genesis mesh...
I haven't seen the sales figures (and have no desire to), so it might very well be true. I would be curious to see who these users are because in the forums (here and elsewhere) opinion seems to be split and many people stated they had no interest in the new figure.
Incidentally, I don't think either of you thought I was attributing some malicious intent on Daz's part, but I'll say it for those who may be thinking "conspiracy nut"...
It's like Tide. Every year, it seems they are coming out with a "New and Improved" version. The last "New & Improved" version came in a smaller bottle and costs more. No discernable improvement in cleaning. Not terribly malicious, just a marketing ploy.
Daz just wants to move more V6's.
I could be wrong though.
I haven't seen the sales figures (and have no desire to), so it might very well be true. I would be curious to see who these users are because in the forums (here and elsewhere) opinion seems to be split and many people stated they had no interest in the new figure.
Incidentally, I don't think either of you thought I was attributing some malicious intent on Daz's part, but I'll say it for those who may be thinking "conspiracy nut"...
It's like Tide. Every year, it seems they are coming out with a "New and Improved" version. The last "New & Improved" version came in a smaller bottle and costs more. No discernable improvement in cleaning. Not terribly malicious, just a marketing ploy.
Daz just wants to move more V6's.
I could be wrong though.
It's worse than that -
Ice cream 64 oz is now 56 oz if you are lucky , otherwise 48 ox
Mayonnaise 32 oz is now 30 oz
Smoked Sausage - 1 lb is now 14 oz
and on and on ...
Just raise the frickin' price and keep the size the same! How many recipes are getting screwed up with this nonsense!
Do the companies that do this really think we are that dumb!
I could post images showing the improvements on topology, but I wont.
I could also show the morphs and how much more detailed they are, with crevices and natural impressions.... but I wont.
I could even show you how much better auto fit works.... esp the v4 clone on shoes, which is simply outstanding. but.... i wont.
Coz at the end of the day, those who have made up their mind to dislike it (for whatever reason) will continue to do so, regardless of what is posted or shown. And hey, u guys are within your rights to do so. But I don't think its fair to speculate.
Just remember.... for every member in the forum saying they wont buy it... there are 50 others who don't post that are. Maybe even more than that. And hey, I'm not even that into Genesis or DS....