I want V4 Products not V5 or V6. Planned Obsolescence Has To Stop.
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I think your example would remotely make sense if you actually played all the parts in the movie, did your own stunts, while filming the whole thing and playing the soundtrack. Then when you spent several million on the film, only about 200 people showed up to watch it.
I think you really need to understand what case you're presenting and what's really involved, because it's not making too much sense to me.
I think your example would remotely make sense if you actually played all the parts in the movie, did your own stunts, while filming the whole thing and playing the soundtrack. Then when you spent several million on the film, only about 200 people showed up to watch it.
I think you really need to understand what case you're presenting and what's really involved, because it's not making too much sense to me.
If you'd ever worked for 9 months on a film set you'd realize how absolutely absurd that statement is.
It's not making sense to you because I'm looking at it from the perspective of a customer who buys content, and telling you what I want to buy. You're looking at it from the perspective of a content maker who want's me to buy what you make. And I'm telling you I don't want to buy what you make. And you're telling me you don't want to make what I buy. So I don't buy, and you don't sell. I buy something else, and you sell to someone else. If that's good enough for you then I can't argue with that.
Maybe some content maker who isn't satisifed with what they are getting out of the market, might consider making Victoria 4 and Aiko 3 content.
It's not making sense to you because I'm looking at it from the perspective of a customer who buys content, and telling you what I want to buy. You're looking at it from the perspective of a content maker who want's me to buy what you make. And I'm telling you I don't want to buy what you make. And you're telling me you don't want to make what I buy. So I don't buy, and you don't sell. I buy something else, and you sell to someone else. If that's good enough for you then I can't argue with that.
Maybe some content maker who isn't satisifed with what they are getting out of the market, might consider making Victoria 4 and Aiko 3 content.
Someone here already does ;) So then, you are one of my customers, yes?
The simple truth is that goods for real humans have a potential market of billions of customers and 'wear out' given time.
The market for virtual human clothing, at a generous estimate, is still the barest sliver of a fraction of that; I would be surprised if it's peak was 100,000 total potential customers. Remember: an item selling 100 copies is considered to be 'doing well' in this market. Further, these items do not 'wear out' as clothing, footwear, or bedding does. (This cannot actually be balanced out in large part as many claim by the materials cost of physical production of goods as components and equipment for manufacture are required for the production and delivery of both types of goods.)
The markets simply do not compare.
An item selling 100 pieces under the manufacturing model you describe above would be considered financially disastrous unless special circumstances -- such as a deliberately limited edition combined with an astronomical price tag -- were in aggressively in play.
Edit: And for the record, I'm one of those people who still does make V4 content. Is it all I make? No. But I do.
The simple truth is that goods for real humans have a potential market of billions of customers and 'wear out' given time.
The market for virtual human clothing, at a generous estimate, is still the barest sliver of a fraction of that; I would be surprised if it's peak was 100,000 total potential customers. Remember: an item selling 100 copies is considered to be 'doing well' in this market. Further, these items do not 'wear out' as clothing, footwear, or bedding does. (This cannot actually be balanced out in large part as many claim by the materials cost of physical production of goods as components and equipment for manufacture are required for the production and delivery of both types of goods.)
The markets simply do not compare.
An item selling 100 pieces under the manufacturing model you describe above would be considered financially disastrous unless special circumstances -- such as a deliberately limited edition combined with an astronomical price tag -- were in aggressively in play.
What surr said... and in addition, you are comparing a needful market to a hobbyist one. People have to buy clothing... no one has to buy a 3D model.
It's not making sense to you because I'm looking at it from the perspective of a customer who buys content, and telling you what I want to buy. You're looking at it from the perspective of a content maker who want's me to buy what you make. And I'm telling you I don't want to buy what you make. And you're telling me you don't want to make what I buy. So I don't buy, and you don't sell. I buy something else, and you sell to someone else. If that's good enough for you then I can't argue with that.
Maybe some content maker who isn't satisifed with what they are getting out of the market, might consider making Victoria 4 and Aiko 3 content.
No, it's not making sense because:
1) You have no idea what it takes to make content, so you're saying things that are way off base. It's easy to say something that is, quite honestly... silly and unrealistic.. it's not until you have some understanding that you can make a competent argument.
2) The logic behind your examples are flawed. Editing a video is nothing close to making a 3D outfit, and that's a quite a logic jump to get to, so I'm not sure how you even got there. That's like saying "I can edit movies with this $30 program, I'm the next Steven Spielberg."
3) If two content developers, which are supporters of the figure you want content for, tell you how easy or hard it is to do something, you should probably believe them, not insult them. It makes you look really bad and uninformed.
It's not making sense to you because I'm looking at it from the perspective of a customer who buys content, and telling you what I want to buy. You're looking at it from the perspective of a content maker who want's me to buy what you make. And I'm telling you I don't want to buy what you make. And you're telling me you don't want to make what I buy. So I don't buy, and you don't sell. I buy something else, and you sell to someone else. If that's good enough for you then I can't argue with that.
Maybe some content maker who isn't satisifed with what they are getting out of the market, might consider making Victoria 4 and Aiko 3 content.
Someone here already does ;) So then, you are one of my customers, yes?
You do superb work - and your promo images are works of art. I have come very close to buying things several times, and I can tell you that I will eventually get at least Edens Flame Outfit, and Godspeed.
I know. And if Daz shows you who purchases your products you'll see I bought Warrior Maiden Ashe, and probably one of my all-time favourite characters Modern Muses Snow - you did such an incredible job modeling her face, especially her profile!
They don't, unfortunately. Though I do appreciate your support! :)
If it is any comfort, do know I have more V4 characters in the works, and DAZ has let me know they are taking NO steps to ban/remove/stop accepting the content here in the store, even with the popularity of the V6 release.
Someone here already does ;) So then, you are one of my customers, yes?
You do superb work - and your promo images are works of art. I have come very close to buying things several times, and I can tell you that I will eventually get at least Edens Flame Outfit, and Godspeed.
Well ty for the compliments. But what I do is really difficult... and tedious. Ive even been called a masochist at times. And this is a burden all clothing makers bear.
I do understand where u are coming from, and can relate to that upset of not being able to get things you want. I mean, Im a poser user and my buying habits have dwindled a lot with the lack of gen 4 stuff. But if it was easy, everyone would do it. It sadly, is not. And its even harder to support both. Im actually doing it right now and can already tell... I will more carefully pick and choose what I do geni conversions for. Supporting equivalents on every pack is way too much. I know at first glance it seems easy, coz its like well, the outfit is already modeled and mapped. But u actually have to fit it to genesis, then u have to redo any and all morphs in it, rig it and change weight maps... and that is all barring you don't have issues to sort from going to a diff tech. What is one month of work for one, becomes easily 2 for both.
I dont really fault you guys tho, for not knowing better. The problem is, most people who have never done it and saw it all the way through, will ever understand how much work goes into this stuff. And there is easy content..... then there is hard. Like I said, clothing is among the hardest to do. Id rather fully rig a critter (and prolly would more often, if they sold better)
I'm telling you the truth about how I feel and what I want and you're saying it makes me look really bad. So it makes me look really bad. I'm willing to let everybody see me as really bad. It makes me look uninformed. So I look stupid. So what? I still don't want to have to rebuy morphs for new figures that I've already bought 2 or 3 times for older figures - just to use the new clothes. Or rebuy figures just to use new skin textures. I have 5 Victorias, 5 Michaels, and who knows how many Freaks, Hiros, Aikos, Kids, and Girls. I don't want to have to start all over with the 6th Victoria and the 6th Michael - only to have those replaced in a year or two with Victoria 7 and Michael 7 and have nothing compatible with them either.
Hmm.
I think all the good arguments being made are lost in a bit of emotion right now.
The main problem Iabout Genesis and V5, V6 are that they do not work natively in Poser, Carrara, and earlier versions of Daz.
We really didn't have all these problems back when V2 was introduced, nor when V3 or V4 were introduced.
People bought the new figure and really got behind them.
True, some weren't happy, but it was nothing like this.
The leap was probably too much too soon.
I don't think anyone would want to go back to IBM 650 (You're telling your age referencing that one, then again, by me getting the reference, so am I) or the like.
I'm an artist too and I hope no one is advocating we all work for free (even though some people skip out on paying us).
I guess it's a good thing everyone is so passionate about their favourite Generation.
It means people care.
I still just work with V4.2 and M4
Well, I will say straight up... I will never do everyday clothing. Im totally fantasy geared. To me, that would take all the fun right out of this. I will probably also never do kiddie stuff, either and rarely do things that are frufru or otherwise construed as cute (I feel like Im faking something lol) As anyone can see by my store, Im mainly armor-focused. I also do mostly darker stuff (and when not dark per se, its gritty) When u think of my stuffs, u should think... Erotic, exotic and a little psychotic LOL
As far as male stats go, couldnt say to any degree.... other than the two packs I have (and already did kind of give those stats)
But I can say... sex sells. Better than anything else, hence why there is such a preponderance of it. Though, I spose there are always exceptions.
And btw... lol Im a chick.
First of all, "Erotic, exotic and a little psychotic" should totally be your business motto! :D
And absolutely! That's what I keep trying to tell everyone. 3D, like most computer/tech realms is a man's world. Women have a significant contribution to 3D art, yes. but hearing how Victoria and all her slutwear sells more than anything only proves that point. But I'm also willing to believe that if there is a pattern for what makes girls sell, there must be one for guys as well. After all, as much as guys love to fantasize about sexy chicks, they also love to stroke their own masculine egos, too. ; )
But seriously, this will probably make some eyes roll, but I say someone should seriously start making some ego-inducing stuff for the guys and man-slutware to entice the ladies... : )
Dixie is based on V4.2
Well Jaider it depends on how much time and work you put into a character. Dixie for example has made an evolution through years and as a genesis version she do not look like the original. that is the point.
Nothing is forcing any user to use a new version of anything. I still use V3, V4, A4, G4, SF4, S4 (all V4 versions), Genesis1, V5, S5, and now Genesis2 Female and V6. I use each one for what they do for me best. I'm not bothered that V3 is not getting any new content, I hunt Items and Kitbash with them for V3. V4 is still supported here at DAZ3D and many places, Genesis1 and V5 are supported here and also at other places, and now Genesis2 Female and V6 are out. And from what I see/read V4/G1/V5/G2/V6 will all be supported until the content creators (PA's) decide they can not earn enough if they support a figure mesh. The fact that new morphs are made and sold for each new figure does not bother me, the fact that some figures get little to no support (V3) does not bother me, If I can not do what I want with V5 or V6 I just do not use them. Just because a new Mesh is released has not, can not, will not stop me from using the content I own. To me as long as I have it, it's mine to use as I like, nothing I own is obsolete because one mesh has came on the market. Can it do exactly 100% what all my V4 morphs can do? No, so I use what I have that does work. Will it cost to buy morphs for G2/V6 to get close yes, but the people who did the work to make those morphs and other sets deserve to get paid for the time and work they did for me to get more use out of G2/V6.
In my view nothing has changed except I have another figure to use, sure some items are getting made less often, and that is just the way it goes in a fluid market like 3D. I just do not see the reason for all the doom and gloom over new tech and meshes. Maybe I'm just dense.
Well, I will say straight up... I will never do everyday clothing. Im totally fantasy geared. To me, that would take all the fun right out of this. I will probably also never do kiddie stuff, either and rarely do things that are frufru or otherwise construed as cute (I feel like Im faking something lol) As anyone can see by my store, Im mainly armor-focused. I also do mostly darker stuff (and when not dark per se, its gritty) When u think of my stuffs, u should think... Erotic, exotic and a little psychotic LOL
As far as male stats go, couldnt say to any degree.... other than the two packs I have (and already did kind of give those stats)
But I can say... sex sells. Better than anything else, hence why there is such a preponderance of it. Though, I spose there are always exceptions.
And btw... lol Im a chick.
First of all, "Erotic, exotic and a little psychotic" should totally be your business motto! :D
And absolutely! That's what I keep trying to tell everyone. 3D, like most computer/tech realms is a man's world. Women have a significant contribution to 3D art, yes. but hearing how Victoria and all her slutwear sells more than anything only proves that point. But I'm also willing to believe that if there is a pattern for what makes girls sell, there must be one for guys as well. After all, as much as guys love to fantasize about sexy chicks, they also love to stroke their own masculine egos, too. ; )
But seriously, this will probably make some eyes roll, but I say someone should seriously start making some ego-inducing stuff for the guys and man-slutware to entice the ladies... : )
lol it kind of is. I have it on my fb page, tho I don't really advertise it that way. But it definitely fits.
And well, I dunno that Id go as far as to saying its a man's world per se. The funny thing is, there are plenty of female users.... but they all like and use stuff for the women too. Take me for example... I have a preponderance of female items in my runtime.... but I don't have a ton of male stuff. A few key items, thats pretty much it. Ive even rendered promos on default M4 lol And that even goes for my content.... Ive not largely focused on male things til more recently (coz my stuff tends to be armor, it does fit well there, and I do like working with M4)
On one hand, it could be a sort of a sexualization for straight males, but for women, its all about empowering women or otherwise living in fantasy worlds vicariously thru their art. So either way you slice it, female stuff is largely favored.
There is, however, also a large userbase of gay males in the community as well. These are the ones that buy a lot of the male stuff.... but it has to be bordering on erotic, I think, or at the very least construed as sexy (though, again, Im sure exceptions exist) Take Godspeed... Ive had conversations before that perhaps one reason it did well, is that Greek is sort of iconic to gays - because it was largely acceptable in Greece and the society was what introduced homosexuality most prominently in history (like Alexander the Great, for example) whereas Egyptian, which is the theme of Scorpy God, not so much. They were more incestual than homesexual per se, though there are some stories ... but for the most part, I think it was taboo (yeah, Im a history nerd... can you tell? lol)
So theres a lot of factors at play here. But again, its really only speculation. You'd really have to poll the community, and ask probing questions to get a better detailed look as to why people buy what. And well, that would be an invasion of privacy, I think, in some cases. So all we really have to go on is pure speculation.
I'll say this again....
No one has given ANY evidence at all that V4 is being phased out. Anyone who says otherwise is just speculating and expressing personal opinions. The FACT that a product was released to make V4 compatible with V6 says very clearly that there are NO plans at this time to phase out V4.
By the way, I have not purchased V6 (yet) and I'm still waiting to see what happens with G2 and how it will develop. Then I will have a better idea of whether I want to purchase anything for G2.
I'm really distressed by how personal opinions and rumors all run rampant in these forums and cause a lot of problems.
*really upset*
People are entitled to their opinion and have as much right to express that opinion as you or anyone else; and why shouldn't people be allowed to express their concerns and preferences as long as they don't attack anyone elses.
I get very upset at posts that express a personal opinion about what people should and shouldn't post about.
I'm all for expressing opinions and will defend anyone's right to do so. What I get upset about is when rumors/speculation about some drastic event that is going to happen is posted and there is no factual basis behind the claim. This causes distress in the forums and the arguments, speculation and guessing start flying. That is what I'm opposed to.
What you said was
quote
'I’m really distressed by how personal opinions and rumors all run rampant in these forums and cause a lot of problems.'
But I'm not going to let you drag me into an argument - so that's the last I will say on the matter.
See ya.
I dunno that the OP was speculating more than expressing a concern and that they want to see more gen 4 stuff. Sure, there have been some alarmed posts within it... but I think those people are just worried too, and not necessarily spreading a rumor.... just expressing their concerns and worries.
If anyone is worried, let me clear it up now. DAZ has stated they have no intention on killing generation 4 and are still accepting content based on it. Anyone in doubt can just look at my store .... to present, all Ive done is Gen 4. And what I have done for Genesis is not even released. And I still have every intention on supporting Gen 4 going forward.
The thread is more concern for how many PA's will actively support gen 4 (and how many are now) If customers can't voice their opinions on that, we will not know how to adjust those things, or target what we make accordingly. That said, there are still no guarantees Vendors will suddenly about-face and start going back to generation 4. Some people have a strong preference for what they're making (be it for what figure, or even genre)
Exactly. The only thing people in the forums do better than speculate is overreact.
Coldrake
I'm late to the party, but here's my experience:
Every day or so I see new Gen4 stuff on Rendo and RDNA. I bought a new M4 outfit and the V4 equivalent last week. M4/V4/A4 are the 3 most used base figures in my library, and for 90% of what I do, they flat-out rock and are getting plenty of support.
I got Genesis 1 and a pile of morphs because it's more flexible for creating Really Odd Characters(tm). I don't own too much Genesis 1-specific clothing/hair/etc. because I popped for the various Gen3-to-Genesis and Gen4-to-Genesis conversion plugins and have had decent luck with them so far. I have V5 and M5 because they make good starting points for me.
Based on what I'm doing, V6/M6/whomever6 will not be a significant improvement and therefore aren't in my purchase plans for the foreseeable future. I haven't even pushed the edge of what I can do with Genesis 1!
I seriously doubt you'll see a huge drop in Gen4 support because, from what I see, a lot of Poser users are big consumers of Gen4 stuff and they're not going away..
Full disclosure: I still use Aiko3! Even the Gen3 figures have their place in my work.
And may I ask what is so bad about that? The company wants to prosper, the PAs want something to eat, too - everybody has to make his/her living. You too, unless you are a rich heir and don't have to care for money.
Your remark that it is not the old technology which holds us back, but old thinking, is very wise. For example, we still use the bowls our forefathers or -mothers invented some 20.000 years ago, jewellery clasps of ancient Egyptian and Roman design are still in use and up to this day the best you can find, and so on. It looks as if some technologies can't be improved because they are perfect from the beginning. But do we really know what happened since the earliest potters grabbed a lump of clay?
I like some features of V4 very much, but some I don't like at all, and I don't want to work (or play) witch thousands of fixes. I use V4 and M4 less and less. I love the improvements of Genesis, though I personally don't see the necessity of Genesis 2 and the step back to male and female models. But until I am really experienced with Genesis 2 and there really is no more content for Genesis 1, I won't complain. What I really don't understand is that so many users and vendors are so fixated on V4, a figure which is beginning to be really outdated.
And may I ask what is so bad about that? The company wants to prosper, the PAs want something to eat, too - everybody has to make his/her living. You too, unless you are a rich heir and don't have to care for money.
Your remark that it is not the old technology which holds us back, but old thinking, is very wise. For example, we still use the bowls our forefathers or -mothers invented some 20.000 years ago, jewellery clasps of ancient Egyptian and Roman design are still in use and up to this day the best you can find, and so on. It looks as if some technologies can't be improved because they are perfect from the beginning. But do we really know what happened since the earliest potters grabbed a lump of clay?
I like some features of V4 very much, but some I don't like at all, and I don't want to work (or play) witch thousands of fixes. I use V4 and M4 less and less. I love the improvements of Genesis, though I personally don't see the necessity of Genesis 2 and the step back to male and female models. But until I am really experienced with Genesis 2 and there really is no more content for Genesis 1, I won't complain. What I really don't understand is that so many users and vendors are so fixated on V4, a figure which is beginning to be really outdated.
progression of a technology does not always mean advancement, The vast majority of what Genesis offered I did not impress me nor did I find useful, what it lacked I could make up for by what's already available with the Gen 4 figures.
The exact same thing that did so much damage to the DVD and music industries is just starting to happen to the book industry. Illegally uploaded and downloaded books and magazines. Every bestseller on the current New York Times bestseller list can be downloaded illegally right now. Almost all the independant bookstores, and ALL the bookstore chains in the United States, England, and Australia (not Canada) are either out-of-business bankrupt, or on their way there.
This is because the Canadian bookstore chains (which, BTW, are all owned by the same parent company) has embraced digital distribution rather than running away from it or pretending it doesn't exist. In Canada, almost every bestseller on the current New York Times bestseller list can be downloaded legally - and it's profitable for Indigo to sell those books in that format.
The RIAA hates digital distribution because the performers can go around them and sell directly to their fans. The performers love digital distribution for exactly the same reason. It's a threat to the music industry, but it's not a threat to the music scene.
Now, if I was running DAZ3D, I'd be keeping the customers happy by paying attention to what they want and getting creators to make it for them, and I'd be doing everything in my power to make sure folks like Stonemason and Jack Tomalin don't decide the hassles of selling through daz3d.com outweigh the benefits of doing so... because DAZ3D is a middleman that needs both ends to remain happy with them.