Paying for Autofit fixes?
ManStan
Posts: 0
DAZ are you serious?
I've been waiting for updates to autofit since it's release. One of the fixes I have been waiting for is a fix to the breast tuck. We've all had it and hated it, yes there is an after market morph for genesis to fix this. Problem is it morphs genesis it doesn't actually fix the issue with the clothes. This may work unless you want the blouse to be slightly transparent or show cleavage. So I was patiently waiting for DAZ to fix this.
So what was in my email today http://www.daz3d.com/sales-promotions/clothing-breast-fixes-for-genesis-2-female A fix for genesis 2, so autofit wont tuck blouses around breasts, and DAZ is charging you for this fix. I certainly wont be paying for it.
What's next? $15 so autofit works with long dresses? Another $15 to get autofit to not to put backs out of clothes? Another $15 for a shoe option to chose rather then thigh high boots?
More over is every new character that comes out going to be $125 probundle?
Any one remember when V4 characters were a whopping $15? And weren't part of some $125 probundle? Even just the base character is $40.
Sorry but DAZ's new business model is just pricing me right out of all of this. I know DAZ needs to make money, I know inflation has raised the cost of many things, but not by 3X. Sorry, I am not paying for some DAZ exects swimming pool, or trip to Bermuda. And I am most assuredly not going to pay for what should be a free update to autofit.
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Comments
The answer you'd going to get is probably that SickleYield made that as her own product and then DAZ3D bought it from her.
But I completely agree with you: autofit, which is a part of DS, should be updated more often and more cheaply because it is a basic functionality DS is supposed to have. I paid for DS 4 Pro and for autofit, btw so "but DS is free!" factor isn't going to work with me.
Currently default autofit is messed up, if not broken outright (long dresses and shoes, anybody?). DAZ3D, who makes the base software, should take care and make this product better in the core, not leave it to PAs to provide small fixes.
Actually, if you want to get it cheaply, just wait. It is DO. It will be on 80% sale eventually. Or even better, get Hexagon cheaply - using DS bridge from Hexagon it is quite easy to fix boobsacks, although you'd be doing it on case by case basics, not fixing the whole autofit exactly. Any other modelling software will do, free or not, but ZBrush and Hexagon have DS bridges which simplifies a ton of details.
But actually, this product doesn't fix autofit either. It just adds a bunch of morphs into G2F that you can dial to fix the look for those particular morphs. It works only with some particular morphs and when new morphs will be released, good luck getting (free?) updates on this product.
I'm with you mostly.
Not sure I can say much more than that. But I'm not mad anymore either, when I see stuff released I just think "Hmm, can't I do that already".
If the answer is yes, I just laugh and bit and go about my day.
I've already got breast fixes on my Genesis2Female. I've also already got some muscular ladies on G2F. And plenty of generic skimpwear. So I save $$.
I'm not gonna knock the business, I realized its like Magic the Gathering cards they churn out ever year. Some people like to buy the new shiny.
More like Pokemons but same idea, yes.
More like Pokemons but same idea, yes.
I don't know much about Pokemons LOL. I do have a Bakugan in my office for kicks. I don't know how to play, but the fact it expands when you put it over a magnet is neat ;)
@ManStan, some folks already seem really happy to buy the breasts fixes. So, well, that's that I guess :)
Vae victis, I'd say :p
From the point of view of a relative novice, I am glad to pay for this product and others like it. I am not a graphics arts professional and I am not a programmer. This is a hobby for me. While I would love to learn how to create and transfer morphs from one figure to another and to create other morphs as I need them, I simply don't have the time in my busy life to do this right now. Therefore, I am more than happy to pay for a product like this. When I do this, two very important things happen:
1) I get more enjoyment out of my hobby and can spend more of my time actually increasing my knowledge
base
2) The person who creates the product I purchase gets paid so that they can and hopefully will continue to
create other things that I or others in this community can enjoy.
To me, this seems like a winning situation all around.
But won't it be even more winning situation if DAZ3D would improve the autofit algorithms themselves so you won't have to rely on partial 3rd party fixes at all?
I could see that. But I would say from my experience that MTG is highly collectible ...at least from my experiences with it. Friends have closets full of cards that never see daylight.
One reason I compare to MTG is because of how Wizards release cycle makes 2 year old cards virtually obsolete for standard tournaments. Then they release similar cards with slight change that really do make the old cards weaker.
Being me i gave up on MTG after about a year. I still ton of unfinished decks sitting in the closet LOL.
Just a hobby for me too. :)
EDIT: I was thinking to say this and figured it out I think. For me it's not much a win-win scenario with a lot of things that are sold. If products and sales keep going the way they have there isn't really anything for me in this community. But I've been starting to understand that I'm just too long in the tooth and that I'm not the target market. Vendors tend to make the same thing over and over because it sells, so it's not really a win for me when pokeman purple comes out and people buy it. Means vendors will never be inspired to make something fresh. But if I was a craftsperson I would probably want to keep reliable income in and not break the mold myself, so I accept it. I don't begrudge it.
So I just do my own thing.
Ah, I see. Perfect match with DAZ3D model then, only you still sort of can use Generation 2 if you wish so as there are no tournaments.
But won't it be even more winning situation if DAZ3D would improve the autofit algorithms themselves so you won't have to rely on partial 3rd party fixes at all?
Sure would! Would be even sweeter if they'd add some Maya/Zbrush type algorithms ... (not the price algorithms though)
Stan, agree with this. and they wonder why people stop buying products?
Daz let me first see new and true changes in the software and improvements included with advanced manual.
or a complete rebuild of carrara from the ground up.
then i will re think about joining, but not one day before.
do we need a Gia another gen 2 milk?
Sure would! Would be even sweeter if they'd add some Maya/Zbrush type algorithms ... (not the price algorithms though)
Or C4D and Modo - we can always dream. But I'd be happy if they actually just improved autofit procedures enough that boobsacks won't happen in a core DS installation.
Milk? Why milk?
But won't it be even more winning situation if DAZ3D would improve the autofit algorithms themselves so you won't have to rely on partial 3rd party fixes at all?
This isn't a code fix, it's a new set of morphs (the way the Clothing Cleavage Modifier for Genesis was) that modify the clothing. And it isn't really an "AutoFit" fixer, it's for adjusting any clothing that is too shrunk-wrapped for the user's taste.
Since I have no understanding of the underlying technology I'm not going to really comment on the whole "Daz should just fix AutoFit" argument.
My question, and I'm not knocking SY on this at all, is why is this product even needed for G2F clothing? I understand it for Genesis but why are the people making clothing for G2F still making them so skin tight in that area?
For Genesis I'd assume that the savvy PA would model on the base figure to increase their potential audience. So you by the clothing, dial up the female form and it tries to conform like it was built to do on the base model and you get the breast sacks. If you're building a top for G2F aren't you modeling it on the base figure which already has the lady parts? If so why do you feel the need to make your dress top fit like a second skin? If you model it so that the center stretch across the base model wouldn't it stay stretched no matter how you adjusted the breast dials?
Maybe I'm just not understanding the whole process, wouldn't be the first time.
This isn't a code fix, it's a new set of morphs (the way the Clothing Cleavage Modifier for Genesis was) that modify the clothing. And it isn't really an "AutoFit" fixer, it's for adjusting any clothing that is too shrunk-wrapped for the user's taste.
My point is that autofit procedures - the way autofit projects the refitted clothes onto a model - should be adjusted to make boobsacks non-existent. Native clothes mostly don't have this problem as they are modeled more naturally around the shape, but refit clothes are especially bad about clinging breasts.
Yes, I'm perfectly aware that those are partial, incomplete morphs for G2F and not actual autofit fixes, but my point that autofit should be worked on more so those morphs won't be needed. And as autofit is a part of DS and DAZ3D is the one who makes DS, it should be DAZ3D task to make it better.
@Sisca If I read the description properly the fixes work on older content as well, and the software wouldn't have a clue how to adjust the gap with older clothes.
Also if you model clothes for a C cup, and someone dials in a DD, then the software gets confused too. So the fixer is for stuff like this to an extent.
I've said this before, and have been saying it a lot here lately. Buying in to the work around discourages DAZ from fixing the issue.
So basically this $ fix is the same sort of fix we have for genesis. It morphs the figure not the clothes. So you end up with the same issue, transparent clothes or clothes that show cleavage are out because of the morphing of the breasts.
And DAZ wonders why I haven't spent a dime here since early in the G1 cycle.
And yes, I can do the Hex fix fairly well; it is easier and faster then you think, little more then some light painting with the soften tool. Still means having to fix every shirt used on genesis, if you use a female morph.
Because the first step in rigging clothes is to use the transfer tool, and that shrink-wraps your clothing to the base figure. So lazy vendors that don't take the time to go back in and fix this have clothing that suffers from underboob cling, even on G2F.
I always look at the documentation page for a product now before buying to see what morphs they include. When you see absolutely no morphs at all (like all the stuff Bobbie25 cranks out for DAZ), you know to skip buying because it's going to look like crap on anything but the default shape.
This part isn't completely right. While I have seen some free breast fixers that deform the figure, the paid one I still use does not. Well it does and it DOESN"T.
What it does is morph the breasts, and sets the clothes to follow. Then it also undoes the moprh but tells the clothes NOT to follow. So ultimately the figure looks the same, but the clothes are still morphed. I use the original breast fixer for genesis on G2F, but now I just manually dial in the inverted part of the morph as well.
Because the first step in rigging clothes is to use the transfer tool, and that shrink-wraps your clothing to the base figure. So lazy vendors that don't take the time to go back in and fix this have clothing that suffers from underboob cling, even on G2F.
I always look at the documentation page for a product now before buying to see what morphs they include. When you see absolutely no morphs at all (like all the stuff Bobbie25 cranks out for DAZ), you know to skip buying because it's going to look like crap on anything but the default shape.
I'd like to quote this just for hitting the nail on the head.
There are so many items for Genesis that, while nice in concept, look so horrible, as if they were glued to the figure. And unfortunately, Genesis 2 Female is going down the exact same road.
If so many vendors are not willing to take care of such basic issues with their clothing, it sure would be nice if DAZ QA would be a bit harsher here.
Particularly when it comes to DAZ Originals. And particularly particularly when it comes to items for their newly released characters (and their Pro Packs).
I just wish they'd put a bra morphs or undershirt morph on the gen 2 models. it would save me a lot of time and be realistic under clothes.
Interesting. How would you set morph to behave like that?
Interesting. How would you set morph to behave like that?
Technically it is two different morphs. For example BreastsFix1 and INVBreastsFix1. Both are actually the same morph with different names. When you dial in BreastsFix1 to 100% it deforms the clothes and figure. Then you dial INVBreastsFix1 to -100% which moves the mesh back in place but not the clothes.
For this to work I think you need to have BreastsFix1 use autofollow, and INVBreastsFix1 set not to autofollow.
Sorry not at PC otherwise would just grab screenshot. I might be missing a step but I think that is all.
The original breast fixer for genesis automatically dialed in the hidden inverted morph for you. If you happen to have that you can see how it works and mimic it. You just have to show hidden morphs.
Technically it is two different morphs. For example BreastsFix1 and INVBreastsFix1. Both are actually the same morph with different names. When you dial in BreastsFix1 to 100% it deforms the clothes and figure. Then you dial INVBreastsFix1 to -100% which moves the mesh back in place but not the clothes.
For this to work I think you need to have BreastsFix1 use autofollow, and INVBreastsFix1 set not to autofollow.
Sorry not at PC otherwise would just grab screenshot. I might be missing a step but I think that is all.
The original breast fixer for genesis automatically dialed in the hidden inverted morph for you. If you happen to have that you can see how it works and mimic it. You just have to show hidden morphs.
Yeah, I took a look and I think you are right. Would you set those secondary morphs (INV in this case) as morph controlled morphs (MCM)?
I think setting up MCM would be best, but I've been to lazy to do that!
I think this is actually incredibly clever, and I only wish it was part of the base figure, and that new character morphs were expected to support it. I don't think it belongs in AutoFit -- it belongs in the figure, because it's specific to the figure.
But perhaps people who do nude renders, or who like the cling-wrap look, would object to this feature being built into the cost of the figure....
Technically it is two different morphs. For example BreastsFix1 and INVBreastsFix1. Both are actually the same morph with different names. When you dial in BreastsFix1 to 100% it deforms the clothes and figure. Then you dial INVBreastsFix1 to -100% which moves the mesh back in place but not the clothes.
For this to work I think you need to have BreastsFix1 use autofollow, and INVBreastsFix1 set not to autofollow.
Sorry not at PC otherwise would just grab screenshot. I might be missing a step but I think that is all.
The original breast fixer for genesis automatically dialed in the hidden inverted morph for you. If you happen to have that you can see how it works and mimic it. You just have to show hidden morphs.
It took me a while to learn that. Now I have certain vendors I gravitate to, like DogZ, because of the fit and adjustment morphs provided in those products. Other vendors I've come to avoid, as you mentioned, because of the lack of the morphs.