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Thanks for surface education friend. Now, I have a ton of questions, Rofl !!!! Questions, which would probably be difficult to answer. Such as how do you make these discoveries, removing maps from all glossy, etc.... this is the sections that baffles me. Steps I need to take to balance surfaces. All your adjustments, create balance, a technique i'd love to achieve.
How by going any looking up what PBR is and learning. Plus using Substance Painter taught me more about what is and isn't needed in terms of proper PBR (Physically Based Rendering) maps. Before I got SP I spent hours, days and weeks trying things out making roughness maps by hand in Photoshop I even made some Greyscale Swatches in PS that correspond to a DAZ Studio roughness value, given Iray is Linear and the colour picker is not. Meaning 128 grey is not 0.50 roughness etc.
Thanks for the massive confusion, need another 2 liters of coke, wake up my brain, Rofl !!!!!!! I did look up PBR, Pebble bed reactor came up on google, no joke, Lol !!! In seriousness, thanks for tips, will do some research on PBR. Think, I'll just render everything in black and white, problem solved, Lol !!!
Take it easy friend.
try this https://learnopengl.com/PBR/Theory for starters
Thanks bud, truly appreciate all your assistance. Would love to learn surfaces other then base figures, change of pace
My pleasure AJ.
Ok here we go again I bought this set https://www.daz3d.com/reed-plants-for-daz-studio-and-iray which it states "Iray Shaders to add translucency, bloom and general realism to your renders in a few clicks of a mouse". What a disappointment when I loaded one and render it with the DS default Sun and Sky.
As you can see it doesn't look to well as it loads. There were so many things wrong with the shader implementation I had to rework the whole thing. It was amix or Metal/Rough and Weighted shaders. But I did learn something though that adding SSS to plants can make a nice difference compared with just using Translucency alone but i wouldn't have chosen the SSS transmitted colours used,.As it turns out my "First Adjustment" one looks the best in an image situation.
So from right to left.
Far Right; as it loads
Second from Right; I used the diffuse colour, set in the original, in Translucency and set to Scatter, Transmit and Intensity and also in the SSS colour. Turned off Top Coat and adjust Glossy Weight channels making the gloss colour white.
Second From Leftt; the same as the second from right without SSS, that is the only difference.
Far Left; has no SSS and all Diffuse and Translucency Colours set to 0.54 Gray (192 gray in old money)
I am doing this for two reasons, one to show how others can make their Iray props look better and second to have a moan. LOL
In this era it amazes me how this stuff gets passed by Q&A given it is an Iray only product. PBR is PBR there is no other way not like 3DL where one was expected to adjust things. I do like Martin's products, I have a number of them but I am forever having to fix things. I spend more time doing so than making my images and it is starting to wear thin. No point and saying contact DAZ3D about this my last two Tickets haven't been answered yet, over a week for one of them. Plus I like the models, if I didn't I would return them in a heartbeat.
Hi Pete, thanks for sharing your PBR methods. Wow ! Impressive transition. Exactly what I was trying to share, pertaining to prop materials, to many are over saturated and glossy, looks like plastic, regardless of light source. So, diffuse and Tanslucency adjust color, top coat and glossy weight adjust gloss. Correct ? I've never used SSS so, cannot chime in. But, SSS trans color can combine with translucency. Wonderful, time to experiement. I've uploaded non metal props that had metallicty values, I'm thinkin huh ? As they say, more shine, more beauty.
I agree, pertaining to Q&A inspections. It's like going to a toy store, purchase a toy, go home, take it apart, put it back together for toy to work properly. Insane, Rofl !!!! Other stores have access to contacting PA's directly.
Once again thanks for sharing
No problem.
In this case I removed Top Coat completely, there is no need for it on plants. Top coat is more for coatings, varnish, car paint etc. The Glossy Weight section uses fresnel from the main IOR settings. Glossy Weight for proper PBR maps should always be on 1.00. Non PBR then we will have to drop it down. Yes SSS and Translucency work together if THIN Walled is turned OFF
Yeah non metals should never have Metalicity on, ever.
Awesome ! Thanks for clarifying bud. But, if individual desires fake plants, then Top coat map is used. Gotcha top coat is like a varnish surface coat . IOR controls surface glossy level. Fab weekend lession. Now, I'm a newbie level 1 PBR texture artist, Rofl !!!!!!!!!!! Have a good one friend
ROFLOL yeah they do looks like those fake indoor plants I see in shopping malls over here.
"IOR controls surface glossy level" sort of. Fresnel is calculated according to what the Main IOR is set to is probably more correct. It doesn't control Gloss so in effect It is Gloss Weight + Roughness + IOR = Fresnel well that is what I think it is. :)
Eurasian Bitterns are from a planned re-release of Shorebirds Volumes 1-3.
I think it is important that folks knew what lengths Ken goes to, to update these for free for folks that already own these. I won't go into details but it is a lot of work. How many vendors out there that do this, not many. I can't thank him enough so I do some renders, here's one I did earlier. ;) Actually I rendered it today as I was waiting for the updated files. :P The improvements are awesome.
Songbird ReMix Shorebirds Volume Two: Herons & Bitterns https://hivewire3d.com/shop/shop-by-artist/ken-gilliland/shorebirds-complete.html
Nature's Wonders Frogs https://hivewire3d.com/shop/shop-by-artist/ken-gilliland/nature-s-wonders-frogs.html
Nature's Wonders Dragonflies & Damselflies of the World Vol. 1 https://hivewire3d.com/shop/shop-by-artist/ken-gilliland/nature-s-wonders-dragonflies-damselflies-of-the-world-vol-1.html
Hell Creek Modules https://www.daz3d.com/hell-creek-modules repurposed a terrain and used Substance Painter to make a mud layer around the edge where it meets the water using a mask by rendering the terrain and water plane from the top camera making the water black and the terrain white.
Jabiru Stork from
SBRM Shorebirds - Wading Birds
https://hivewire3d.com/songbird-remix-shorebirds-wading-birds.html
Used Lisa's Dead bushes to make up the nest, among other branches I had lying around.
Dead Bushes
https://hivewire3d.com/shop/hw3d-collections/lisas-botanicals/dead-bushes.html ;
@Taoz after more testing I think setting Translucency to Scatter only at about 0.30 - 0.50 looks better plus we have more control with Scatter only. The other two seem to give little control with using the diffuse map as the translucency colour. In the case of the ferns it does make them look darker but they do look better from the underside view. I have found if Scatter, Transmit and Intensity is used the overall colour of the plants seem to pop more and look unnatural but it does depend on the maps used in the first place.
Thanks for the update Szark, been too busy to experiment with this so far but will give it a try during this week. Still ned to learn a lot about textures and shaders, I bought Esha's Iray Shader Guide a while ago but haven't got to explore it yet.
I think some PAs need to read this https://blendermarket.com/posts/how-to-deal-with-constructive-criticism?utm_source=intercom and understand that some people here just want to help.
Fantastic article, marvelous advice, definetly helped me, thanks for sharing
Good article; short and to the point. I would add that it sometimes is nearly as hard to criticize as it is to be criticized! I would like to think most people don't want to crush anyone's feelings, hopes, dreams, or little just-out-of-the-egg creations (yes, I know there are trolls. They belong under bridges!) It takes care to create a thoughtful and constructive criticism, even as it takes patience and self-awareness to receive it and make the best use of it. However, one good, valid critique is worth dozens of the warmest, sincerest praises, because it lets you borrow someone's eyes for a moment, and learn something new... even if it is simply a differering perspective.
I love the frog in your Bittern picture, Szark! I find my eye always looks for the little things, and I found that guy very pleasing. Sorry, no criticisms here, today!
thanks AJ
Misselthwaite yes many can't critigue due lack of knowledge or experience. The few times I have tried to help it feel on deaf ears or taken the wrong way so i don't bother anymore. I personaly would love folks to rip my images to bits as I find it very helpful but alas I don't get that much. I have had commenst about my ant image that the scale between them isn't right but what they don't realise is that I do my research first so I know certain aspects are correct and yes sometimes not exacty realistic but close enough.
I have a thick skin for such things. I ignore trolls.
Thanks I am very detail orientated no matter the type of image I make. It can be a curse sometimes and epensive. :)
Scene fillers cost more than the scene, I know! It also has to be just the right thing(s)...
I'm not sure I could take be torn apart 24/7 (I have children to bring me low, already!) but I like to hear criticism... or, maybe call it a suggestion ;-) The nice thing with rendering, is that you can certainly 'tweak' things afterwards (although depending on the length of the render, it may be a less palatable idea!) rather than painting, where it would mean starting over from scratch. I create characters for a gaming friend, and I hear a lot of, "No, that's not quite it... maybe less of that... more of this... no, wait, go back a few..." so I'm certainly willing to listen.
Art is tricky; a lot of what we immediately respond to is visceral, and sometimes it is difficult to parse out exactly what it is we do or do not like about an image, and then express it in comprehensible and meaningful ways to someone who may not want to hear it :-) With so much of the reaction being personal preference, and styles being so wonderfully, vastly different, it is sometimes hard to know when to speak and when to stay silent. I think most people err on the side of silence...
LOL about the children, I don't have that affliction. I do have a GTX 1080ti so most renders are pretty quick these days. My sunset Stork image took 5.41 mins at a very high quality setting. I think the Bittern image took about an hour.
I agree.
For me I just make what I like not worrying what others will think, I recently saw a dA page that removes images if it doesn't get any comments. Certainly not doing things for the right reasons. I think that is the key to enjoyment, doing for yourself and not a pat on the back. It is also why I don't judge others for what they make, it's a personal choice.
oh I like these https://www.daz3d.com/dgv-outdoor-planters
Made for Ken's yearly bird rendering contest over on Hivewire.
But I know many have dropped even lower.
DS/Iray HDRI Added mist with Photoshop
Featuring the Red Breasted Goose who are having a hard time like many bird populations around the world. Most species in the UK have drop more than 50% since the 70's I think Springwatch said. I have slept since so don't quote me on the that.
I used
It look beautiful Szark! Looks real lifelike too, I can almost hear the noise from them
Fantastic render Pete, your renders always amaze me
+1
Thank you Carola
Thanks AJ
+1
Been a while but I am back on the horse, well in this case a deer. I wanted to what SBH was like for fur, oh what a rabbit hole I went down. It reminded me of the old days when I would send hours, 5, 3, 2.30 am bedtime to figure out why something wasn't working like I thought it should. Not saying I know how it should work just I had this illusion of PBR being PBR. Anyhoo this is how it started on another thread
This was the next post I made on the same thread
The pics below Base (no hair), Hair (too much), Hair again too much but better colour and lastly where I got up to yesterday with less hair 30 hairs per CM (cm I think as that is DS units) and better groomed with some controls maps for which I have refined more.
As for some hair settings. Segment I put at 0.50 (1.0 default). To me that helped to smooth out the hairs. Hear is what also might me worth considering for lilweep
Adjust tesselation in the Parameters pane when the SBH is selected. The other are in the SBH plug-in itself
Here are my surface settings. As you can see I totally relied on getting the maps right and just fiddled with the value settings once I got the maps right.
Here is the progression of getting the maps right. Sample was interesting as no way did it look like a red deer so the first thing was to adjust the hue and saturation, That took a while to get right. From that I made the root and tip color maps. Yes more lighter than you think. Every time I lightened it I had to increase the colour saturation. Best done Ctrl+U in Photoshop. Just something to be aware of.
I ended up using the dark diffuse map on the deer under the fur. To me it didn't make much difference and it helped with the exposed parts like the nose etc.
Yes I made the legs more grey, used a grey paint brush ona new layer, painted the grey, Gaussian Blurr and then set the layer to Saturation. Then you get the detail. I m being doing this sort of manipuation for years btw.
Ok next are the Hair control maps. Apart for the masks, which you can do inside the Hair paint room. I made loads and some I made in Photoshop.These are the ones I want to show.
First how to control hair length, Black is high, white is low. Don't ask I have no idea.
Second map is what I controlled the clumping with in combination with the first map. (I will post later which slot I put what map when the render is done)
For both sets of Clumping settings I put the second (white background) map in the first 2 slots (Strength and Bias)and then other map in the last slot (Density).
For the Tweak Tab (Room) I put the first map (Black background) in the Reduce and Random Length map slots. I cranked up the reduce length to over 3.00 to get a good result.
For the final result I made 5 separate SBH's. 1 for the Coat, Belly, Neck, Outer Ears, Inner Ears. That way I could control things better. Not much overhead. I managed with Instancing the trees and plants I get it under 11GB of Vram. I dear say if I reduced the map sizes I could get that down more. Tomorrow I will remove the Hair and see what vram usage drops by.