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The Official aweSurface Test Track

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  • Sven DullahSven Dullah Posts: 7,621
    khorneV2 said:
    Sven Dullah said:

    Latest version of the Space Livingroom, with cranked up lights and further tweaked surfaces. Don't know what to do with those IMO weird floor leds, maybe simply hide them? Strange design decision...

    Excellent !!!yes

    Tks a lot:)

  • Sven DullahSven Dullah Posts: 7,621
    edited May 2020
    GafftheHorse said:
     

    'I find it annoying when the universe makes you work for your damnation. I prefer it just gave it to me, save me the effort'

     - Klaus, Babylon 5: River of Souls

    Amen:))

    GafftheHorse said:

    'cause, Eeek! your idea of 'cheating' sounds a lot of work. I lost you somewhere at the second sphere.

     

    Looks good though.

    Tks! Yeah what wowie said, that light setup is done in minutes, then of course adjusting requires a number of testrenders.

    Speaking of lighting...you do know that the AreaPT lightshader is the fastest way (in terms of render speed) to illuminate your indoor (and possibly also outdoor) scenes? The standard- and AoA lights will work but rendertimes will easily double up.

    And, speaking of candles, dug up this early test scenario from p2 of this thread;) Using two 1 poly primitive planes is by far the most efficient way IMO. Here I cheated and only used one pair for the whole thing, but they can easily be instanced or dublicated.

    ETA: The actual flames use the environmental shader.

    Probably old news, but someone might find it usefulsmiley

    Post edited by Sven Dullah on
  • Sven DullahSven Dullah Posts: 7,621
    edited May 2020

    Did an overnight full HD size(Total Rendering Time: 6 hours 6 minutes 42.60 seconds) render with 2048 adaptive samples at 12x12 pixelsamples. Found an issue with one of the floor sections, need to look into what's happening...

    Think my displacement maps (derived from the original bumpmaps) do the job.

    image

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    Post edited by Sven Dullah on
  • GafftheHorseGafftheHorse Posts: 567
    wowie said:
    GafftheHorse said:
    'cause, Eeek! your idea of 'cheating' sounds a lot of work. I lost you somewhere at the second sphere.

    Nah, it's actually quite simple. Use one sphere literally only as a backdrop and then another for the actual reflection/diffuse light.

    Won't be needed anymore with the offset I've added. Also means there's no need to convert stuff from .hdr/.exr to .png or .jpg as well.

    GafftheHorse said:
    + Window tops need glass separated from window frame

    + Doors in the north need the glass separated from the door

    + Wall lights, the candles from the metal.

    I think you can either edit the geometry or create a transmission/metalness mask for those. Either way should work.

    Geometry edit was the easy option - it's an old set, and not high poly - yet to do the wall light fixtures, but I'm getting there.

    I'm probably running against an older version of Awe - I've four or five Wine prefixes with Studios 4.10 thru current on, I'm not sure which has the most recent Awe installed on, if any have the most recent. I need to sort that.

    wowie said:
    GafftheHorse said:

    - Poor lighting at the momo - still struggling with awe lights can't seem to get enough welly out.

    This is lit with an outside HDRI (which isn't contributing much due to the windows), the wall and chandlier candle points and 44 spheres randomly instanced near the ceiling - good enough for now while I locate problem surfaces.

    The outside lighting generally needs a way to get inside. In this situation, the simplest way is to use the old trick of enabling opacity and turning it all the way down to 0. This makes diffuse rays actually able to get inside the room. To still get specular/reflection/refraction, simply turn off 'Multiply Specular with Opacity'. You do lose the specular ray from outside lighting though.

    If the glass shares the same surface as the non-glass part, you will have to either edit the geometry or use an opacity mask. For metalness/transmission or opacity mask, it's best to only paint either 1 or 0. A little bit of feather near the edges is generally OK and can add a bit of occlusion to the glass. Be sure to add the feature to the glass part and not the non-glass areas.

    The last released build on my AWE Surface thread allows for adaptive diffuse rays from the inside to 'see' outside lighting (when adaptive sampling is enabled). I've changed this behaviour in my dev build since then though. Now all direct lighting have the same ability. Hence, no more need to turn off adaptive sampling to get the same feature.

    Low level of light is generally due to under exposure. Rather than adding lots of lights, you probably want to increase scene exposure instead. The 'old school way' would be to boost the level of ambient/indirect lighting, but keep direct light the same.

    Oh yeah, almost forgot. The window pattern, you will need to check if the window part are made from a continous mesh or two planes placed closed together. If it's two planes, if the other plane isn't facing outward, you'll need to correct it via the geometry editor/modeller app. Enabling 'Use Face Forward' and/or Thin Glass won't fix such an issue.

    The right model is a thin cube, while the ones on the left are two planes close together (with a gap between). The upper one has both side facing outward, while the one on the bottom is facing the same way.

    Here's what it will look like from the other side. (cube on the left, planes on the right). The problems is because the second plane is facing the wrong way, the refraction rays aren't hitting the front plane (or hitting other objects behind it).

    Alternatively, you can just delete the other plane and then 'Use Face Forward' so the main plane is your only geometry. But that means completely losing the back pattern.

    @Wowie Thanks for doing a little investigat'in.

    I came across the reversed normals before with black rugs and table tops - using face forward or reversing the normals in the Geometry editor worked per your advice those times - this time what I'm getting is clear window when I think I should be getting a stained glass effect. Checked view from inside and out of World Travel both same. I'll take another look and try the editor though. Two meshes would have inside and outside surfaces?

    Light not coming into the ballroom...

    I think opacity is off, just using transmission, and multiply so and so by what not off too probably, don't even think I'd noticed the lack of light through put while I was working on the glass on the gypsy caravans as I had a light inside the caravan and I'm using the same (saved as shader preset).

    Ballroom : still working on it. I'd like to get some more light coming in while still retaining the stained glass colours - tried awe spotlights outside the windows - eithert he awe spotlights aren't strong enough or I've reduced transmission too much on the windows in order to see the patterns. Very basic bump maps now added to Ballroom and light improved (still just a temporary bodge).

    Sven Dullah said:
    Speaking of lighting...you do know that the AreaPT lightshader is the fastest way (in terms of render speed) to illuminate your indoor (and possibly also outdoor) scenes? The standard- and AoA lights will work but rendertimes will easily double up.

    And, speaking of candles, dug up this early test scenario from p2 of this thread;) Using two 1 poly primitive planes is by far the most efficient way IMO. Here I cheated and only used one pair for the whole thing, but they can easily be instanced or dublicated.

    ETA: The actual flames use the environmental shader.

    Probably old news, but someone might find it usefulsmiley

    Never tried AoA lights with Awe - Did use IBLM though (due to the wonky background I was previously getting (and no shadows) with Awe Env dome.

    Not bad look at all actually, apart from ocassional fairy rainbow firefly eyelashes - switch IBLM out for Awe and they're gone.

    I've had limited luck with regular awe lights, fine for additional to an HDRI, but I never get good results relying on them - took me six months to get 'not awful' results fairly often in regular 3Delight (for the longest time I thought I needed diffuse and specular lights bundled to make 'real light' in 3DL).

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  • Sven DullahSven Dullah Posts: 7,621
    GafftheHorse said:
     

    I've had limited luck with regular awe lights, fine for additional to an HDRI, but I never get good results relying on them - took me six months to get 'not awful' results fairly often in regular 3Delight (for the longest time I thought I needed diffuse and specular lights bundled to make 'real light' in 3DL).

    I've used the bundle trick also a lot in the past:) I found the specular lights really useful when using the UE2, which only outputs diffuse light.

  • Sven DullahSven Dullah Posts: 7,621
    edited May 2020

    ...another uhm...testing some testing I suppose...

    A char created in an eariler awe build, updated and worked on. Playing with roughness, anisotropy and glossy fresnel. Updated the hair and GB brows to AWE Hair and tried some new specular settings, maybe slowly getting the hang of it? Also played a bit with AO distance...

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    Post edited by Sven Dullah on
  • GafftheHorseGafftheHorse Posts: 567
    Sven Dullah said:

    ...another uhm...testing some testing I suppose...

    A char created in an eariler awe build, updated and worked on. Playing with roughness, anisotropy and glossy fresnel. Updated the hair and GB brows to AWE Hair and tried some new specular settings, maybe slowly getting the hang of it? Also played a bit with AO distance...

    image

    She looks really good.

     

    'slowly getting the the hang of it'....

    image

    Took me long enough to work out how to get from left (after application of Awe Base Character mats)...

    ...to right (max diffuse strtength, lower specular values).

    Syltermermaids_Aki_before_after.png
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  • Sven DullahSven Dullah Posts: 7,621
    GafftheHorse said:
    Sven Dullah said:

    ...another uhm...testing some testing I suppose...

    A char created in an eariler awe build, updated and worked on. Playing with roughness, anisotropy and glossy fresnel. Updated the hair and GB brows to AWE Hair and tried some new specular settings, maybe slowly getting the hang of it? Also played a bit with AO distance...

     

    She looks really good.

    Tks!

    GafftheHorse said:

    'slowly getting the the hang of it'....

    image

    Took me long enough to work out how to get from left (after application of Awe Base Character mats)...

    ...to right (max diffuse strtength, lower specular values).

    Ah yes, the presets are outdated. Guess he will update things with the upcoming awe release.

    @wowie

    Maybe it wouldn't hurt to bump your awe threads with a teaser...

  • Sven DullahSven Dullah Posts: 7,621
    edited May 2020

    Testing dropping my char into The Pit...

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    Post edited by Sven Dullah on
  • GafftheHorseGafftheHorse Posts: 567
    Sven Dullah said:

    Testing dropping my char into The Pit...

    image

    Nice. Looks like everyone else is late on parade day though.

    image

    Been fiddling with transmission and translucency since 4 am - it's still a little murky, not what I intended, but I kind of like it - I keep making it worse when I fiddle with settings and it takes me ages to get back.

    Distracted by strange artifacts on the glass in draft render on the Daz wine version - (mostly) gone in final on linux native (which I can only use for final due to the studio bug that requires a restart to fix). Aquarium is a Daz cube primitive split into frame and glass panes (with Subd and smoothing - sometimes those fix artifacts on figures).

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  • Sven DullahSven Dullah Posts: 7,621
    GafftheHorse said:
    Sven Dullah said:

    Testing dropping my char into The Pit...

     

    Nice. Looks like everyone else is late on parade day though.

    Certainly looks that waylaugh

    GafftheHorse said:

    image

    Been fiddling with transmission and translucency since 4 am - it's still a little murky, not what I intended, but I kind of like it - I keep making it worse when I fiddle with settings and it takes me ages to get back.

    Haha I hear you!! Easy to get lost in there...

    GafftheHorse said:

    Distracted by strange artifacts on the glass in draft render on the Daz wine version - (mostly) gone in final on linux native (which I can only use for final due to the studio bug that requires a restart to fix). Aquarium is a Daz cube primitive split into frame and glass panes (with Subd and smoothing - sometimes those fix artifacts on figures).

    Now you're talking! I'm sure you get it just right after a good night's sleep;) Good nightangel

  • GafftheHorseGafftheHorse Posts: 567
    Sven Dullah said:
    Now you're talking! I'm sure you get it just right after a good night's sleep;) Good nightangel

    Good night if you're retiring for the evening. I dozed most of last evening, woke short of 4 am. So I'm having an early riser day.

  • Sven DullahSven Dullah Posts: 7,621
    edited May 2020
    GafftheHorse said:
    Sven Dullah said:
    Now you're talking! I'm sure you get it just right after a good night's sleep;) Good nightangel

    Good night if you're retiring for the evening. I dozed most of last evening, woke short of 4 am. So I'm having an early riser day.

    Yeah I was...11.06AM...frown. A day should really be around 30h if you ask me:)

    I find the transmission sliders a bit "wonky", tbh, often end up using values like 0.006 or the likes:) But if you scroll down in the aweSurface tab there is a transmission scale multiplyer slider that can help. And...about the glass...if you use opacity instead of transmission (maybe you did that already) it will allow diffuse rays from the HDRI to pass through, which can make a difference to how the characters appear. Remember to turn off "multiply reflections with opacity" if you want reflections on the glass.

    Post edited by Sven Dullah on
  • GafftheHorseGafftheHorse Posts: 567
    Sven Dullah said:
    GafftheHorse said:
    Sven Dullah said:
    Now you're talking! I'm sure you get it just right after a good night's sleep;) Good nightangel

    Good night if you're retiring for the evening. I dozed most of last evening, woke short of 4 am. So I'm having an early riser day.

    Yeah I was...11.06AM...frown. A day should really be around 30h if you ask me:)

    A Day, 30hrs? - they'd have us on Metropolis 10 hour shifts if they were.

    Sven Dullah said:

    I find the transmission sliders a bit "wonky", tbh, often end up using values like 0.006 or the likes:) But if you scroll down in the aweSurface tab there is a transmission scale multiplyer slider that can help. And...about the glass...if you use opacity instead of transmission (maybe you did that already) it will allow diffuse rays from the HDRI to pass through, which can make a difference to how the characters appear. Remember to turn off "multiply reflections with opacity" if you want reflections on the glass.

    Cheers, I'll investigate that.

    I was using a combo of transmission and translucency - after another read through the user guide I caught the section on translucency (not headered), realised it might not be relevant in this use case and turned it off.

    I got slightly better clarity, but it now doesn't look as 'watery'.

    Could be the glass is slightly tinted, and I know opacity is applied slightly already - I went through that issue getting the top of the cube clear so it's aquarium like, not a weird cubic snowglobe.

  • Sven DullahSven Dullah Posts: 7,621
    GafftheHorse said:
    Sven Dullah said:
    GafftheHorse said:
    Sven Dullah said:
    Now you're talking! I'm sure you get it just right after a good night's sleep;) Good nightangel

    Good night if you're retiring for the evening. I dozed most of last evening, woke short of 4 am. So I'm having an early riser day.

    Yeah I was...11.06AM...frown. A day should really be around 30h if you ask me:)

    A Day, 30hrs? - they'd have us on Metropolis 10 hour shifts if they were.

    Sven Dullah said:

    I find the transmission sliders a bit "wonky", tbh, often end up using values like 0.006 or the likes:) But if you scroll down in the aweSurface tab there is a transmission scale multiplyer slider that can help. And...about the glass...if you use opacity instead of transmission (maybe you did that already) it will allow diffuse rays from the HDRI to pass through, which can make a difference to how the characters appear. Remember to turn off "multiply reflections with opacity" if you want reflections on the glass.

    Cheers, I'll investigate that.

    I was using a combo of transmission and translucency - after another read through the user guide I caught the section on translucency (not headered), realised it might not be relevant in this use case and turned it off.

    I got slightly better clarity, but it now doesn't look as 'watery'.

    Could be the glass is slightly tinted, and I know opacity is applied slightly already - I went through that issue getting the top of the cube clear so it's aquarium like, not a weird cubic snowglobe.

    Yes you're right, translucency is not needed here. Maybe keep the water rather clear and add a relly small transmission roughness value?

  • Sven DullahSven Dullah Posts: 7,621
    edited May 2020

    ...another stupid experiment, might aswell slap it here...used an emissive backdrop again(arealight shader) + a fill light, fitted the V4 skeleton with just diffuse enabled at 50%. Used about 25% translucency boost and 8192 SS samples, and a bit of motion blur. Oh well, now off to explore some less agressive settings...rendertime 1 hours 25 minutes 43.93 seconds

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    Exposure awe.png
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    Post edited by Sven Dullah on
  • wowiewowie Posts: 2,029

    I think i've figured out a way to detect wrong facing normals. Just tested the code on a very, very simple shader and so far I've gotten very promising results. If this works like it's supposed to, then there's no more need for users to manually enable 'Use Face Forward'. The shader will automatically handle that. This should also be applicable to black spots/cracks with very strong displacement.

    If it does work, then there's no more need for the parameter and one less thing to troubleshoot with your renders.

    I also have some new ideas I want to investigate further. They should be relatively easy to implement.

  • GafftheHorseGafftheHorse Posts: 567
    wowie said:

    I think i've figured out a way to detect wrong facing normals. Just tested the code on a very, very simple shader and so far I've gotten very promising results. If this works like it's supposed to, then there's no more need for users to manually enable 'Use Face Forward'. The shader will automatically handle that. This should also be applicable to black spots/cracks with very strong displacement.

    If it does work, then there's no more need for the parameter and one less thing to troubleshoot with your renders.

    I also have some new ideas I want to investigate further. They should be relatively easy to implement.

    Excellent.

  • Sven DullahSven Dullah Posts: 7,621
    wowie said:

    I think i've figured out a way to detect wrong facing normals. Just tested the code on a very, very simple shader and so far I've gotten very promising results. If this works like it's supposed to, then there's no more need for users to manually enable 'Use Face Forward'. The shader will automatically handle that. This should also be applicable to black spots/cracks with very strong displacement.

    If it does work, then there's no more need for the parameter and one less thing to troubleshoot with your renders.

    yesyes

    wowie said:

    I also have some new ideas I want to investigate further. They should be relatively easy to implement.

    By all means, carry on:P

  • GafftheHorseGafftheHorse Posts: 567
    Sven Dullah said:

    ...another stupid experiment, might aswell slap it here...used an emissive backdrop again(arealight shader) + a fill light, fitted the V4 skeleton with just diffuse enabled at 50%. Used about 25% translucency boost and 8192 SS samples, and a bit of motion blur. Oh well, now off to explore some less agressive settings...rendertime 1 hours 25 minutes 43.93 seconds

    image

    Very kewl and weird

    Think I've gotten the best I'm going to get on the aquarium, even managed to add some bubbles.

    Very long render time (8-10 hours) - pretty sure the time went up when I stopped using translucency.

     

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  • Sven DullahSven Dullah Posts: 7,621
    GafftheHorse said:
     

    Think I've gotten the best I'm going to get on the aquarium, even managed to add some bubbles.

    Very long render time (8-10 hours) - pretty sure the time went up when I stopped using translucency.

    Nicely done! And clean, well worth the wait:)

  • GafftheHorseGafftheHorse Posts: 567
    edited May 2020
    Sven Dullah said:
    GafftheHorse said:
     

    Think I've gotten the best I'm going to get on the aquarium, even managed to add some bubbles.

    Very long render time (8-10 hours) - pretty sure the time went up when I stopped using translucency.

    Nicely done! And clean, well worth the wait:)

    Still had to use the heal tool in gimp to remove the last vestiges of those weird shadows on the glass - really bad on 800 resolution rendered on Studio 3Delight, much much better on standalone at 1300 res.

    aemi1970 Wonder Woman costume on V8 (skin is Vyk Jordynne) - converted to Awe

     - first try - still some issues

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    Post edited by GafftheHorse on
  • Sven DullahSven Dullah Posts: 7,621
    GafftheHorse said:
     

    aemi1970 Wonder Woman costume on V8 (skin is Vyk Jordynne) - converted to Awe

     - first try - still some issues

    Nice pale skin. Is that HDRI lighting? You also seem to get those fireflies occasionally? Are you using the AWE Hair shader?

  • Sven DullahSven Dullah Posts: 7,621
    edited May 2020

    ...working on the lighting scenario and stuff...used the GGX BRDF on the sand, didn't quite work out as expected, works great for water though...

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    Post edited by Sven Dullah on
  • GafftheHorseGafftheHorse Posts: 567
    Sven Dullah said:

    ...working on the lighting scenario and stuff...used the GGX BRDF on the sand, didn't quite work out as expected, works great for water though...

    image

    Nice composition.

    I've found converting sand 3dl to iray or any other always seems to result in darkening.

    Vyk Jordynne skin as the V8 skin didn't look great - skin came up paler than expected - might be the first timw I use diffuse strength under 100 for skin.

    Yup, HDRI. HDRI Haven 2k Reichstag in this case.

    Still using the original hair shader - Awe Base hair 2 and fiddle with spec a touch 13% - 15% for strength and mid 20's for rough. Usually works.

    I got bad eyelash fairies if I try using IBLM instead of AWE dome sometimes...

  • Mustakettu85Mustakettu85 Posts: 2,933
    GafftheHorse said:

    This is lit with ... 44 spheres randomly instanced near the ceiling

    Hopefully you meant single-poly planes. Better yet, one single-poly plane.

  • GafftheHorseGafftheHorse Posts: 567
    edited May 2020
    Mustakettu85 said:
    GafftheHorse said:

    This is lit with ... 44 spheres randomly instanced near the ceiling

    Hopefully you meant single-poly planes. Better yet, one single-poly plane.

    Heh!

    I was fairly sure this was going to cause comment.

    Actually, it was just one low poly sphere, and a whole bunch of instances.

    Might just be my imagination, but lit spheres I think give softer light.

    Dog Luvs Cat

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    Post edited by GafftheHorse on
  • wowiewowie Posts: 2,029
    GafftheHorse said:

    Heh!

    I was fairly sure this was going to cause comment.

    Actually, it was just one low poly sphere, and a whole bunch of instances.

    Might just be my imagination, but lit spheres I think give softer light.

    I think you could get away with a simple enough sphere. Something like a polyhedron looking one. Works well enough for an emitter, but not so much as an environment light source.

  • GafftheHorseGafftheHorse Posts: 567
    wowie said:
    GafftheHorse said:

    Heh!

    I was fairly sure this was going to cause comment.

    Actually, it was just one low poly sphere, and a whole bunch of instances.

    Might just be my imagination, but lit spheres I think give softer light.

    I think you could get away with a simple enough sphere. Something like a polyhedron looking one. Works well enough for an emitter, but not so much as an environment light source.

    Yeah, I was kind of hoping I'd get some environmental light coming in through the ballroom windows, but still working on that.

  • Sven DullahSven Dullah Posts: 7,621
    edited May 2020
    GafftheHorse said:
    wowie said:
    GafftheHorse said:

    Heh!

    I was fairly sure this was going to cause comment.

    Actually, it was just one low poly sphere, and a whole bunch of instances.

    Might just be my imagination, but lit spheres I think give softer light.

    I think you could get away with a simple enough sphere. Something like a polyhedron looking one. Works well enough for an emitter, but not so much as an environment light source.

    Yeah, I was kind of hoping I'd get some environmental light coming in through the ballroom windows, but still working on that.

    In that case, don't use transmission on the windows, use opacity with multiply reflections off. Unless they are painted glass, in which case you might want to enable transmission shadows for a color effect. You'll get no diffuserays though.

     

    GafftheHorse said:
    Sven Dullah said:
    GafftheHorse said:
     

    Think I've gotten the best I'm going to get on the aquarium, even managed to add some bubbles.

    Very long render time (8-10 hours) - pretty sure the time went up when I stopped using translucency.

    Nicely done! And clean, well worth the wait:)

    Still had to use the heal tool in gimp to remove the last vestiges of those weird shadows on the glass - really bad on 800 resolution rendered on Studio 3Delight, much much better on standalone at 1300 res.

    aemi1970 Wonder Woman costume on V8 (skin is Vyk Jordynne) - converted to Awe

     - first try - still some issues

    A good way of adding detail to a skin is to use the coatlayer. Simply load another skin's diffuse textures (using the same UV) into Coat transmission color. Set thickness to 0.5 as a start. Tint the transmission color for a more dramatic effect, or adding subtle nuances. Use coat strength, possibly with a set of specular or bumpmaps, at around 30%. roughness 35-40%, glossy fresnel coat on with roughness 75%. Might need to spend some time finding the right texture sets;)

    Post edited by Sven Dullah on
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