Blender Interface Change Proposal Video
StratDragon
Posts: 3,167
Blender Guru Andrew Price proposed these well thought interface changes to the Blender community:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UWacQrEcMHk
While many users here don't use Blender this video is still an amazing production whose theories could be applied to any application.
For those of you who either frightened off by the Blender interlace or for those who would like to see the what improvements or pitfalls these possible changes present (if they happen) you might want to check out this 20 minute video.
Daz 3D is part of 
Connect
DAZ Productions, Inc.
7533 S Center View Ct #4664
West Jordan, UT 84084
Licensing Agreement | Terms of Service | Privacy Policy | EULA
© 2024 Daz Productions Inc. All Rights Reserved.
Comments
Thanks for posting this, an excellent set of proposals, and well worth watching if you have ever used Blender.
Here's hoping that at least some of them will be implemented.
what GOOD ideas - hope they listen to him .
I've tried Blender and I usually get lost in the options. Hope they implement his suggestions regarding the easier filter down gui
Thanks for posting this. Very interesting.
This will make Blender much more like Hexagon and will open it up to new users unlike the current Blender UI where if you weren't already a Blender user you won't be able to use the software until you memorize a bunch of hotkeys because far too many functions are locked away behind hotkeys only.
No UI should force you to use hotkeys, everything should be available via a mouse click. You learn hotkeys naturally as you explore the software and become more accustomed to it and this speeds up your workflow. Having to sit down with a text file and memorize hotkeys just to use the software hinders the exploration of the software and discourages new users from using it.
If this was the way Blender's UI functioned then I'd be a Blender user in a minute. I'm not going to sit and memorize thousands of hotkeys just to be able to use the software. I'd much rather start using the software and over time organically memorize the hotkeys I commonly use.
Sadly I have a feeling this UI will go nowhere. There are just too many people in the Blender community that complain every time efforts are made to make the UI more user friendly and to broaden the user base. The software attracts the Sheldon Coopers of the 3D world.
...I watched the entire three part series as it was presented (am subscribed to his site and youtube channel).
In 100% agreement. This would seriously smooth out what I feel is the worst part of the learning curve which causes many to throw up their hands in frustration and look elsewhere. The tabs setup makes it so much more elegant and easy to understand.
...and a standard toolbar, that has been needed for a very long time.
One suggestion I added to the comments was to include camera controls that could be operated using a pointing device with onscreen manipulators rather than hidden on hotkey commands. I also mentioned that when the programme opens one should be viewing the scene though the camera that is already there (e.g. make that the "default" camera like in Hexagon, Carrara, or Daz Studio)
I'm a long-term user. If the features are there, I will find them and their hotkeys regardless of if the UI is changed or not. On the other hand, I'm totally in favor of anything that moves Blender more into the mainstream for use by artists and away from being used mainly by coders. This is a great program. Even with some shortcomings in its seamless texturing features, it deserves a better reputation than it has.
...bleedin' CloudFlare killed my update. Even my text recovery tool wasn't able to save the latest version of the post (which is the first time that ever happened).
Now if I just received the normal "Server Not Found" message, I could back up and copy/save what I wrote to Notepad. However, when the CloudFlare screen pops up it screws up the sequence of events for when you hit the back arrow it takes you one additional step before where you last were (basically to the non updated post in this case). Going forward from that point results in a "Document Expired" error so whatever was written at the time CloudFlare cut in is irrevocably lost.
Had clarified a few points and added a couple more insights when this occurred. Can't remember what I wrote now as I'm so frustrated with this occurring again. 16:00, sunny afternoon, render I'm running will take nearly three hours, 1$ pints at the neighbourhood pub, time for some fresh air.
...apologies for the momentary derail.
1000% yes. While I do prefer the current UI to the pre-2.5 version, I would gladly welcome this overhaul. I don't use Blender anywhere near as much for as much as I'd like to.
I actually had posted this in my Blender thread. The only problem I see with this is that the current interface is extremely customizable and there has been discussion of this getting lost if his proposal is implemented in situ (in place without variance.) The proposed interface is a good starting default interface and would make the toolset available to a much wider audience but it could cause problems with current users who may have custom environments suited to a particular workflow as no one interface is going to fit a wide variety of uses, especially one as wide as the Blender communities. I had posted, and I hope it is considered if interface changes are considered, that one of the changes be the availability to create custom interface components (panels, toolbars, menus...) which if combined with an exchange area similar to that of winamp's could create a dynamic environment for the larger community to be able to create and share custom interfaces to meet a wide variety of workflows and levels.
I would love to see that. Maybe incorporate something in Blender similar to what Daz Studio has, with the ability to have different layouts (not just color schemes). Blender could still keep it's current layout, but add this proposal in as a layout to choose from.
Try the drop down menu next to the Help
i hope that noone at the blender foundation even considers any of these changes because all they are deisgned to do is change blender to be more like other softwares. if you want to use a program like hexagon then use hexagon
why change a perfeclty well made modeling app like blender and kill it by making it into something it isnt?
As long as the look & feel for existing users is largely prevailed by keeping the customisation, then I can only see this as a "win" situation for Blender. It is hard to do go through with this, but following some UI standards is a must in my book if you want your software to be widely accepted in the long run.
It is unbelievable how far away Blender is from general usability, still - though it got actually better to some extent with the more recent versions. An overhaul is long overdue in my book with regards to Blender. Printing out hotkey lists and remembering them is not the way how your software should solely function for the larger part - that is without any decent mouse/menu alternatives to make the tools more accessible.
...because it's a lot more stable than Hexagon, is constantly being updated and improved (unlike Hexagon), and doesn't cost several useful limbs like 3DS.
Because Hexagon isn't Blender. Nothing regarding the functions of Blender would change, only the UI and how they're presented.
Hexagon is strictly a modeler with UV abilities. If you just want to learn to model and texture it's a straight-forward modeling app with a simple interface, however Hexagon has no rendering engine, it has no physics engine, it has no game engine, it has no animation capabilities, and it simply does not have the litany of additional modeling features that Blender has and continually adds, and Blender has basically become too big for it's own interface.
It should be noted that basic modeling can be performed in Blender without the use of hot keys but due to the limitations of the interface it can be cumbersome. The hotkeys in blender are fairly intuitive and tend to recall your last selection so repeating a task by hotkey that opens up a host of options Blender usually remembers the last option you wanted and makes it easier. and while no program should force you to work only with hotkeys working with hotkeys tends to increase the speed in which production of a project occurs, just ask any professional modeler or graphic artist, or simply watch them work: It's navigate - point - click, navigate, repeat vs. press key
as far as the UI goes Blender is not a piece of software who's future is dictated by a corporation, it's an open source community developed and funded ongoing project, and as a community they tend to be much more responsive to implementing these types of changes. Historically the last time the Blender community clamored about a UI change it actually happened (v2.5) though it was not nearly as thought out as this proposal, and so far the Blender community has not only been taking notice of this proposal, they have overwhelmingly supported implementing them so far. I'd be surprised if it didn't happen.
Yes, the current Blender interface is actually much more customizable then most people realize. It's just that like a lot of things in Blender, that customization is mostly useful at advanced uses of Blender, such as when doing Animation, etc... The default interface is as easy as it gets pretty much at this time. However, advanced users don't want to loose their ability to customize either.
Another point about the interface brought up by Andrew Price and others, one that everyone agrees on that understands the situation, is that there are inconsistencies and certain irregularities that really need to be ironed out, such as different verbiage for the same thing in different locations, inconsistencies in the look and behavior of controls (even in the same panes sometimes) etc... These are part of what causes confusion with many Blender users even after they finally learn the basics of the interface.
The reason I would like to see flexibility extended to tools to create menus and panels, (then save with full interface on an exchange) is that some advanced functions should be less visible to new users (in general) where it will only cause confusion when trying to learn fundamentals, and right up front for advanced users. Whereas the basic controls often become keyboard shortcuts to advanced users and therefore screen clutter but are essentials to anyone starting out. And of course there is the obvious situation where some people don't ever use half of the tools there, whereas others use all the tools available but in their own particular manner, order, and combinations. To be able to hide or rearrange features with something as feature rich as Blender would be extremely valuable and thus why I said would take it to the next generation of interface design imo.
Just an FYI, for almost anything you would need to use, there are drop-down menus for. There are a few you'd definitely want to remember (N and T, for instance), but for the most part, functions are accessible through menus even if it's a pain. There are a lot of way to make it more use-friendly (custom hotbar, for instance) that are already in the system.
I'm not against the overhaul, I just think the difficulty of learning Blender (post-2.5) has been vastly overstated.
Something else people don't realize about Blender's shortcut keys... they are *the best* of any package* (I've used many) for speed sculpts. Basic keys s(calet), r(otate) .. etc.. where Maya uses qwerty for the basic functions... other tools use various keys but in general, Blender's are the best thought out. They are also centered on the left hand for the main functions so that the right is free for tablet/mouse. So it's not just that Blender expects people to use shortcut keys... the program was optimized to make it as easy as possible, much more than any other package, and faster... I would bet on any top speed sculpter in Blender vs another package. I'm not there yet myself so I have to bow out, but I've watched many and am familiar with much of what's going on behind the scenes in doing them in the various packages I've watched. If one searches YouTube for speed sculpts and watches them done in various tools, one will see the Blender process as growing much more organically and steadily over time compared to other tools.
On a related note: Lynda.com has a Free Week promo going right now and there is a particular course I strongly recommend to anyone who uses or is consider using Blender: Character Modeling in Blender. It's a great tutorial in itself but the course also demonstrates a retopo process where it uses the Draw tool to draw out a retopo faster and easier** then in other tools that I've seen so far.
* This is creating base meshes... not detail sculpting such as zBrush/Mudbox.
** Potentially, haven't tried it yet so not sure of how many glitches the actual process might have. Using the Draw tool effectively on a model has it's own learning curve as one is drawing in 3D space and there are processes to learn.
I'm a fan of the hotkeys. I've just been assuming that interface changes wouldn't remove them, just add visible menu options.
One of the things that blew my mind when I bought 3d Coat was how easy it was to just pick it up and go to town with it. It has beautifully designed menus that don't feel like they obscure functionality. If Blender were as functional as it now is and as easy to use as 3dCoat, everyone would be using it all of the time.
I've been tempted to pick up 3D Coat many times. :)
Also, another one I'm blanking on the name, sells now through Steam... no longer being developed.
Some of what causes confusion about Blender also is that it exposes advanced functionality that I haven't seen in other 3D packages. Functions that in most other packages are handled behind the scene and there is no access other then through programmatic means. A good example of this is Datablocks (linking, unlinking, etc..) Many Blender users don't actually know these are there, much less what they do... but they are accessible through the interface and when one stumbles upon them they are often a distraction or one more thing users see and subconsciously note as ...don't know what it is, and not looking... but then adds to the feeling of ...I don't really understand this stuff... For those that take the time eventually to look these up, it actually helps understand a lot about what is happening in the tool even if one doesn't use it directly, and one often does find uses for features like this if they actually take the time to look them up. Confusing in Blender, but not even an option in other tools.
*The terminology (about Datablocks) seems somewhat confusing in the wiki but basically has to do with the difference between copy vs instance and the fact that one can make an object an instance of another 'after both were created' which I don't know how you would do that in any other tool. One can also copy over settings to another object similar to copying light settings to another light in DS, although in DS this is only available as an option upon creation of the light/camera one is copying the parameters to.
There are tricks people have found for this type of exposed functionality such as creating a datablock, unlinking it, linking it to a null to keep it around when Blender closes then reusing the datablocks at a later time... I don't remember the specific reason that this was done for at the moment.
/rant on
Datablocks are a massive pain in the bum. I've been using this program to make my living for more than five years now and I have not found a single productive use for them other than screwing up my attempts at baking and requiring the addition of extra steps to deal with the way Blender handles them. A much better way to deal with this would be to have an "edit mode" in the interface so that they're only visible to users who actually want to deal with them, and the rest of us can get on with multi-programmatic workflows without having to deal with these pesky engine-only "extra" features.
To me the biggest problem with Blender's interface is that it assumes, as advanced users of Blender assume, that you'd never want or need to export anything or work with any other program. Thus, baking between UVs is practically impossible, texturing is treated as if everyone is going to just use procedural shaders or very limited projection, there's no functional bridge between it and Maya or 3ds Max other than the hoary old obj export, etc. This is ridiculous. Every serious 3d artist uses more than one program at some point, and this is normal - normal! - in professional 3d filmmaking.
/rant off
Hats off to Andrew for taking the time to explore new ways to improve things and presenting it so clearly in his videos - I don't hold with notion 'well we've always done it that way so don't change it' - if that was always the best thing to do we wouldn't have washing machines, mobiles, the internet etc. etc. That's not to say something should be changed just for the sake of changing it - no - make changes if they make the user experience better.
I looked at blender years ago and was put off from using it because of the interface (I had very little experience then with 3d software) - it made for a steeper learning curve. Yes, it's improved somewhat now so that I can now actually find my way round basics (with the help of a lot of tutorials still!). So any improvement to the interface is certainly welcomed from a new user point of view. I'm not an experienced user of Blender so I don't know if all of Andrew's suggestions would be better, but the cleaner look with the tabs, side toolbar etc. might be a good way forward, and there are some other great ideas too.
I think the people at Blender should at the very least consider and explore some of the suggestions...
Sorry to bring up a sore point. I am not a fanboy type that would say anything isn't without it's issues. And yes, that has been my point all along about being able to 'hide' things that one doesn't want to ever use/deal with. Or, just reorder what's up front and what's a couple clicks down...
Sorry to bring up a sore point. I am not a fanboy type that would say anything isn't without it's issues. And yes, that has been my point all along about being able to 'hide' things that one doesn't want to ever use/deal with. Or, just reorder what's up front and what's a couple clicks down...
The ability to hide features is a brilliant idea, I think. We could have interface builds for different streamlined uses of the program - for modeling, for projection texturing, for rendering from existing items, and a preset for everything for the in-engine-only power users it's really configured for now. I'd actually pay money for the ability to have a dropdown list of those accessible. Of course, the problem with Blender isn't willingness to pay for something. It's getting someone who will do it.
I can get behind this method of incorporating these suggested changes. Make the more simplified layout for beginners, and the current layout for intermediate to advanced users . . . those of us who have been using Blender for years. I would suggest, however, that it default to it's current layout with an easily viewable option choice for beginners to access the easier layout.
I agree this would bring Blender to a much wider group of users, especially those who have looked at it, and then ran screaming from what I'm sure they perceived as a convoluted UI.
That just changes the placement of windows though. It doesn't actually make the properties panel/hotkeys any easier for new comers. I personally use the Dynamic Spacebar addon and love it. With that I can stay out of the panels for a lot of things (and just search for a function I don't know the hotkey for).
I can say though that some of his proposed 'changes' are actually already in Blender, you just have to enable/disable them (for instance turning off python tooltips, using left mouse click as default, enabling the save and quit dialog when closing Blender).
That just changes the placement of windows though. It doesn't actually make the properties panel/hotkeys any easier for new comers. I personally use the Dynamic Spacebar addon and love it. With that I can stay out of the panels for a lot of things (and just search for a function I don't know the hotkey for).
I can say though that some of his proposed 'changes' are actually already in Blender, you just have to enable/disable them (for instance turning off python tooltips, using left mouse click as default, enabling the save and quit dialog when closing Blender).
in all fairness how long did it take any of us to go into the preferences and learn you could turn that off? He's saying to turn it off by default so new users wont get overwhelmed, like many of us did when we first fired up the UI and said "what the hell am I looking at (and where are my $*&#@ camera controls?)"