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So, essentially "We don't care what the community thinks. They can suck it.".... awesome.
Wow.... DAZ has changed and not really for the better.
:(
That's not what they are saying. They are not obligated to offer their internal tools to the public not matter how many times people ask. If they want HD to be part of their unique brand, as a company running a business they are within their right to do so. And I think a lot of people forget that ultimately they are running a business, though they offer a lot of their tools for no cost. HD is just not one of those tools.
Sounds like that is exactly what they are saying.
They don't have to give me a long-awaited tool. Fine, I don't have to buy their stuff.
Suits me.
I have sunk quite a lot of money here that other vendors will be more than happy to take.
We used to be a great community that used to share info. Wonder what happened...
Hell, I WANT to do morphs for sale. But anything that I make morph-wise, no one will want because it is not high def.
You can't start as a vendor because the one thing you really like to do is hobbled from the get go by their refusal to offer tools to see if you can even make something good enough.
What is the point of trying?
But, you are right. They are a vendor. They aren't obligated to do anything.
I'm not either.
And if they want to alienate their customers who have been loyal for many years, who am I to question their business model?
:)
Adios.
I've been doing this for over 6 years (anniversary was last month). I've been making custom genesis morphs without HD for four years. Just because you don't have access to a proprietary tool absolutely does not mean you can't properly morph a low poly mesh nor does it mean you can't learn how. Learning how to do it without those tools is really where you start first.
I've been doing this for over 6 years (anniversary was last month). I've been making custom genesis morphs without HD for four years. Just because you don't have access to a proprietary tool absolutely does not mean you can't properly morph a low poly mesh nor does it mean you can't learn how. Learning how to do it without those tools is really where you start first.
Umm... yeah. Wrote a tutorial on morphs. It's been in my signature line for years. I know how to make morphs. Not a problem.
Here's an example of one of my morphs on Genesis. She-Hulk:Queen of Tiki-Beach. All muscle morphs and a good portion of the face morphs by me (ones used are for emoting and Genesis Basic Female): ....
lol id pay 100 200 dollars for it.........
Simple, they don't want HD sold on other sites. The attraction is just that only they have this tech right now. Learn to use your maps and make the figures work on all platforms. There are work ways around this and they look just as good.
little secret here if you have the knowhow you can with the help of ZBrush, make anything that is available for Genesis 2 work on Genesis 1. that includes HD morphs in the form of displacement on the Genesis 1 figure.
Now saying that, If I'm going to go that far........Why bother? Its not as good as it seems because ZBrush allows me to make my own creations anyways. So what I'm saying is while I would like there to be a way of me doing the HD Morphs. I don't need them while I am using other software in my pipeline. Now do I need Hair or clothes for that matter. Let them keep up with what they need to, they are too busy refining IRay right now.Ill just keep using poser if I want the clothes to drape that I make or Maybe if they hold too much back I'll just use there characters in other software. I'm not saying that I don't want the HD morphs I'm saying that I will do 3D art no matter what they do. To be honest the knowledge that even such a thing existed was kind of weird. Who let that cat out the bag? Would anyone even know that it was something under the hood if someone hadn't said they were there? (It would just be something that wouldn't look right in other software, A sort of copy protection that made things look greast in Daz and not in Poser)......
But I'm rambling, I use Daz everyday, I only use the others sometimes (except for ZBrush). I have Backups of each install of Daz Studio on a virtual machine now all on one computer so I can work around what ever I need to all within the same content directiory linked to the main computer ;) .... you know why? ......They broke things before and I'm not installing again unless I know it works. Also, I like that there Betas don't mess with the Public release
So if something goes different with there Beta or new releases its as simple as getting an older version working again (they have to maintain some sort of fluency with one another.....
Feel like I need to write a book here. Let me say one word off topic. PTex
Ohh and, Just let me know when its for sale, I'm addicted to buying ........Utilities .... mostly.
Umm... yeah. Wrote a tutorial on morphs. It's been in my signature line for years. I know how to make morphs. Not a problem.
Here's an example of one of my morphs on Genesis. She-Hulk:Queen of Tiki-Beach. All muscle morphs and a good portion of the face morphs by me (ones used are for emoting and Genesis Basic Female): ....
Nice BTW
Thanks! :)
Good morphs do not need to be HD. You still need to be able to produce good morphs without HD assistance. You can attempt to become a published artist with DAZ with these morphs. Use your HD level morphs with displacement and show DAZ the original it was based on. That should allow them to judge your work.
Also, 1) not all customers will want to use HD, 2) you wouldn't want to use HD if you're viewing at distance; for that you certainly could use displacement or bump. A lot of HD is further assisted by normals/displacement/bump. Getting in to DAZ is not going to depend on your HD work, imo.
Maybe SmithMicro will offer a HD-importer for PP2016 to everyone next time. This would be to bad. ^^
Lol maybe
I respect that DAZ3D can do whatever they want and conduct their business as they see fit.
I deleted all the posts in the quoted thread and did not comment any further because submitting feature requests there was not welcome.
But since that answer now is refered to as the official answer I guess I also should post a reply in a thread that was started for this very topic more than a year ago
- - -
I take away from that posts that customers can hire a 3rd party to develop a tool to tranfer higher subdivision levels as morphs or an advanced version of GoZ for DAZ Studio or another software that works with DAZ / Poser content.
- Can DAZ3D restrict access to the DAZ Studio SDK?
- Can DAZ3D forbid 3rd parties to actually create a tool to transfer higher level subdivisions based on the SDK?
- How are the chances that DAZ3D will release their own version of an improved GoZ or a HD morph tool the very moment the 3rd party tool is developed and ready to be released?
Developing for a software requires mutual trust.
From that point of view I am not sure if that official answer was ment as a mere bluff because they are fully aware that probably noone will take the risk to develop anything for DAZ Studio if an inhouse solution was allready found.
Or
Was that official post ment serious and DAZ3D would actually welcome a 3rd party to develop a morph transfer tool and an advanced version of GoZ with map transfer in both directions?
Maybe the situation is that DAZ 3D as a company very much would like to grant access but there might be one person or a small group of persons who codeveloped the tool who are blocking the progress for everyone.
- - -
@ morphs vs displacement
It is simply not true that you can do the same things with displacment as with morphs.
HD morphs are also needed in animations for transforming figures from one shape to the other with high detail.
Practical example:
When you create an animation for a tranformation of a character to a creature you can animate all the tiny details with the help of morphs.
By moving a slider you can adjust effortless how much and how fast the tranformation goes.
You can even animate tranformations for only some areas of the body like the face, hands, legs, torso.
Think of werewolfes, vampires, hulks, or any other super heroes.
You cannot achieve this simply with displacements.
Especially for close up tranformation shots normal morphs will not allow the quality level that is needed to compete with solutions provided outside of this community.
- - -
Achieving transitions with displacement would probably be no harder than with morphs; you would be fighting animating textures in any event (unless it was a clay render).
Everyone with acess to a render engine can blend two or more rendered out image sequences with different texture sets in a postproduction application of their choice.
Some render engines also offer advanced options how to animate textures together with morphs.
But please make a new thread if you need more information how to do this.
- - -
Please everyone try to focus on the main underlying issue and try not to get lost in side arguments.
I would rather be interested in some thoughts if the suggestion of DAZ3D to hire a 3rd party to develop an alternative tool to transfer HD morphs was meant serious and welcome or if they actually would block any efforts in that direction.
well if only DAZ Spooky could pass on or a DAZ_person of any flavour could read this request for displacement maps as an alternative to HD morphs for those wanting to use those if they are indeed just as good!!!
For Carrara users for example.
Good morphs do not need to be HD. You still need to be able to produce good morphs without HD assistance. You can attempt to become a published artist with DAZ with these morphs. Use your HD level morphs with displacement and show DAZ the original it was based on. That should allow them to judge your work.
Also, 1) not all customers will want to use HD, 2) you wouldn't want to use HD if you're viewing at distance; for that you certainly could use displacement or bump. A lot of HD is further assisted by normals/displacement/bump. Getting in to DAZ is not going to depend on your HD work, imo.
This is very true...there have been hd morphs that I've looked at and had no desire to buy and others that aren't, that are fantastic and an instant buy.
However as someone who often adapts bought content, and that includes a couple of hd clothing items, I've found that I can't seem to make additional morphs for them for some reason. Maybe there is a process that needs to be shared for this...not all of us buy content to use as it is. Many of us adapt and kitbash to get what we want as it's not considered to be something that will make sufficient cash for a vendor. Something that I fully understand as many are trying to live off the money they make. Just another angle to consider...
Everyone with acess to a render engine can blend two or more rendered out image sequences with different texture sets in a postproduction application of their choice.
Some render engines also offer advanced options how to animate textures together with morphs.
But please make a new thread if you need more information how to do this.
- - -
Please everyone try to focus on the main underlying issue and try not to get lost in side arguments.
I would rather be interested in some thoughts if the suggestion of DAZ3D to hire a 3rd party to develop an alternative tool to transfer HD morphs was meant serious and welcome or if they actually would block any efforts in that direction.
My point was, and remains, that beside the issues of texture changes and designing the morph sequence, at any resolution, to carry a transformation off the difference between using displacement and using HD morphs would probably be minor. I'd also add that this is a pretty esoteric use, and not something that is undertaken lightly even by big VFX teams.
In any event, debating the issue in the forums is not likely to be productive - DAZ's position has been given and we (no, I don't have the HD import tool either) are unlikely to be able to produce a change.
You are of course correct about the risks a third-party developer would be running - that is something anyone considering such a project would have to weight up, given that DAZ is known to have an internal tool for the task - but it's a common risk in making any extension, one run by the developers of Look at My Hair and Garibaldi Express for example.
Let's for now asume that a 3rd party actually might be interested in helping out no matter if DAZ releases their version or not.
That party will obviously not do it because of the small amount of money that could be gained by selling the tool.
That party will do it because they understand that there are larger forces at play in the industry and access to this tool is vital for everyone in this community to keep up.
The 3rd party might also have an interest of their own because the tool could be used in combination with software or content of partner companies.
Therefore the remaing two questions are:
I understand that the EULA covers what we can do with licensed content.
Nevertheless I have not yet found a public legal document that explains in detail under which terms 3rd parties can use the DAZ Studio SDK to develop addons, plugins and tools.
I asume there must be some basic protection for 3rd party developers that DAZ cannot just say no after several months of devlopment has passed?
As far as I can observe it is also possible to sell plugins for DAZ Studio in other stores or on 3rd party web sites?
Rob's post surely answers that:
As for other stores, Reality was sold at just about every store going at one time or another, and I think the original GenX started at Renderosity (and was a DS plug-in).
Thank you for clearing this up. So I guess all that is left to do now is to find that party who wants to help out.
So if you are a developer that would have the skill to help us out creating an alternative plugin or tool to transfer higher subdivision levels as morphs in DAZ Studio please do.
I am willing to pay an unusual high amount of money for access to such a tool because currently on a daily basis I am forced to use workflows that consume several hours that could be spent on other activities.
Thank you.
Ok I missed a lot of activity apparrently while at work and am not going to risk stirring up the pot on my return
I just want to know one thing
one thing that will assist me using HD content in Carrara and iClone
I have Zbrush
how do I take the HD morphed obj which I can export and bake it as a displacement or normal texture set on the original base genesis so I can use displacement instead.
Can this be done in Meshlab too maybe?
As far as I am aware the tutorial by Richard is one of the most helpful to follow step by step:
Combining displacement and a morph from ZBrush to DS
http://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/23430/
Keep in mind though that with Genesis 2 the surface names are not sorted by numbers but I assume based on the work you did in Octane setting up materials by now you are familiar which surfaces belong to which UV set.
There is also a lot of information posted in answers by Mec4D.
But I have not saved a specific link to one answer that covers it all in one place.
Yes that is indeed helpful for doing my own displacement and very similar to how I use 3D paint with displacement in Carrara enabling subdiv in 3D view to do it, working with separate maps for shading domains on one mesh, I actually have a simplified base genesis obj where I have combined sufaces into groups that use the same map already.
The names themselves do not matter so long as I can generate maps for face, torso and limbs, those the main 3 combined surfaces.
Eyes and all the mouth parts if extreme sculpt maybe.
I am not sure though how I could use a HD morph created by another and bake it though, I have seen a Blender tutorial on it.
Xnormal looks good
I need to figure out how to separate the shading domains though as it creates one map
maybe texture atlas
RawArt's deep sea creature gave this on base genesis
unusable as all on top of each other or I would not post it even text obscured
I am not that sure if I really get what you are trying to do.
@ working with morphs inside Zbrush
In Zbrush you can also save morphs. Those morphs can also be used to quickly revert the mesh to different stages of the modeling process or to try out a different option for the same area.
If you are trying to create different detail like different scars you could also create morphs for them in Zbrush and then dial in those morphs you want on the same map.
THEN you bake the maps with those details selected.
- - -
@ comparing displacement and morph workflows for animations
If you were able to put different details of different areas on different discplacement or normal maps there is still the issue that you may not be able to combine different maps on the same surface.
You can very easily mix and match different morphs.
But when you are trying to mix different maps on the same surfaces you may run into unexpected results.
Example:
Even if in theory some render engines offer the ability to mix two displacement maps in practice the result often looks not as intended.
But that is the very reason why we use morphs for such cases.
You can blend two different morphs with details in two different areas on the same surface zone very easily.
Example:
Animated battle sequence:
First the figure receives a scar on the left arm at frame 15 then on the next blow the figure receives a scar on the right arm at frame 25.
Both scars are on the same surface zone.
With morphs it is no issue at all to just move the silder from 0 to 100 and voila you got the result you wanted.
But if you want to achieve the same with maps you have to make a lot of extra steps switching in and out different versions of the map.
In the worst case scenario if you render engine does not support blending of displacement maps you will need at least three versions of the displacement maps for just that one surface zone.
Now think about animation examples in which the figure has 20-50 different details that should be altered during an animation sequence.
- - -
I do not know if that answered your question.
But maybe it now is more clear how without access to the HD morph tool creating animations is made more complicated.
I really hope a 3rd party developer can find a solution.
I am pretty sure as soon as Iray and all the other cloud rendering solutions are officially released a lot of more people would like to create animations without having to jump through extra hoops if there is a more time efficient solution.
If there's not already a displacement map apply a blank, neutral for the settings, map. Then open it in the Layered Image Editor from the option menu. Apply the two displacement maps as new layers, with masks. Now just adjust the opacities at frames 15 and 25 to add each in turn.
Not only that, you can use morphs between figures using ZBrush with the help of Gen X. What I always do is convert using Gen X, Perfect them onto Gen 1 using Zbrush projection brush (this all in Low Poly), then make a displacement map of the High Poly Vic 4, 3, or even Genesis 2 ;) onto Genesis 1.
Yes I still use Genesis 1 mostly. I am not good at tuts but as I said before it is possible to convert any figure to any other figures Mesh.
I always liked an all in one mesh so I use Genesis 1 for that reason
Keep in mind, if your trying this its work and takes getting used to, and I like making my own bend morphs for each character. I've bought many V4 Characters at all the 3D stores and done this many times without any loss using different tools