Animations created in Carrrara
zaintc
Posts: 282
I was trying to find character animations created in Carrara, ones where the characters dont look dead from the neck up. I can tell when mocap or aniblocks are used for the body, yet the face always has a blank stare. Has anyone dealt with issue and if so can they share their insight on this?
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Yes, its a difficult but really important element that gets way too little attention, present company included. Here is a related discussion I started and got some interesting comments:
http://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/26882/
This one as well
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xrOW7aQCtlg
Yes, very interesting. I have to admit I don't do that much planning, just dump a character into Carrara and start applying mocaps. Probably why Pixar does better than I do ...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QOeaC8kcxH0
:coolsmirk:
Yes, very interesting. I have to admit I don't do that much planning, just dump a character into Carrara and start applying mocaps. Probably why Pixar does better than I do ...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QOeaC8kcxH0
:coolsmirk:
I am new to Carrara and for about a few hours I was watching animation created in it and all I saw was very nice scenes and characters with dead eyes and no expressions with little to no blinking
I use Mimic Pro For Carrara which is basically for lip syncing to recorded dialogue. But also: "With the ability to add in expressions such as winks, nods and smiles, your figures can easily become as expressive as your imagination allows." Its not perfect, but faster than hand keyframes.
http://www.daz3d.com/mimic-pro-for-carrara
(For some reason, DAZ' "Search" does not find the above link, I found it with Google.)
I use Mimic Pro For Carrara which is basically for lip syncing to recorded dialogue. But also: "With the ability to add in expressions such as winks, nods and smiles, your figures can easily become as expressive as your imagination allows." Its not perfect, but faster than hand keyframes.
http://www.daz3d.com/mimic-pro-for-carrara
(For some reason, DAZ' "Search" does not find the above link, I found it with Google.)
Don't get me started, Daz is giving little to no support for the latest Carrara. I came from a iClone platform. I didn't realize this until I started using Carrara (they were so helpful with the import of of DS to iClone)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DWPLx_LBs5o
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=egbdAtkPApY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XaI-nEN2DRE
How well does the render work for C8?
I am new to Carrara and for about a few hours I was watching animation created in it and all I saw was very nice scenes and characters with dead eyes and no expressions with little to no blinking
I was gonna say you'd been watching my channel then I recalled "nice scenes" being mentioned :lol:
That is precisely the main reason why, when I make animations for other people, whether it be a dragon, person, whatever, I always leave the facial expressions out of it. Some pose sets actually apply expressive facial morph settings, which is fine if that's a major part of the pose, but animations can be a real pain for reuse if the expressions are already framed in.
Many aniBlocks and other animations available for purchase have many uses for different situations and different moods. I consider this a good thing. There are some aniBlocks available for V4 and I think M4 that apply facial animations only... so you can add them to your featureless animations.
Most often, when I use a walk cycle, I still delete many frames from, say, the head, arms, sometimes the chest and abs so that I can add to the expressiveness that I'm after. It would be a pain for most people to actually buy a walk cycle like that. But most walk cycles can be used with any sort of expression changes, lipsyncs, what have you.
I want to add personality to the characters, make it real as possible. I was hoping for a reference video by someone using C8, I was unable to find any, so far
I am new to Carrara and for about a few hours I was watching animation created in it and all I saw was very nice scenes and characters with dead eyes and no expressions with little to no blinking
I was gonna say you'd been watching my channel then I recalled "nice scenes" being mentioned :lol:
I have not seen yours just yet, let me see, so I can comment lol
Yes, that topic has gotten quite a bit of attention. Here is user Realtime's take and my response (Post #76), also summarizing the responses of others:
http://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/28314/P75
There was also a "Carrara Manual" topic that got pretty heated (the author is erroneously shown as EvilProducer, it was me). You might also check out user tbwoq's "Undocumented features in C8.1 Pro Build 153" and "Undocumented features in C8.5 Pro Beta 204" (Post #83 from last July, I don't know if this has been updated):
http://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/25968/P75
So far, the complaints have produced little action on DAZ' part that I can see. I am still using Carrara 8.1 Pro (I have no interest in Genesis and later figures, which seems to be the primary reason for the somewhat pricey upgrade to 8.5) and scrounging the Forums for documentation when I can't find it in the earlier documentation. There is also this helpful topic, "Carrara Information Manual" by addict level user Dartanbeck:
http://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/15970/
Yes, that topic has gotten quite a bit of attention. Here is user Realtime's take and my response (Post #76), also summarizing the responses of others:
http://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/28314/P75
There was also a "Carrara Manual" topic that got pretty heated (the author is erroneously shown as EvilProducer, it was me). You might also check out user tbwoq's "Undocumented features in C8.1 Pro Build 153" and "Undocumented features in C8.5 Pro Beta 204" (Post #83 from last July, I don't know if this has been updated):
http://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/25968/P75
So far, the complaints have produced little action on DAZ' part that I can see. I am still using Carrara 8.1 Pro (I have no interest in Genesis and later figures, which seems to be the primary reason for the somewhat pricey upgrade to 8.5) and scrounging the Forums for documentation when I can't find it in the earlier documentation. There is also this helpful topic, "Carrara Information Manual" by addict level user Dartanbeck:
http://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/15970/
I noticed that as well, Dartanbeck, might as well be Carrara manual, lol. I also hear C9 is coming out this year, why? what will it offer?
and why wont C8 work more so like DS (just dump DS into Carrara, well most of it. LOL)
I am new to Carrara and for about a few hours I was watching animation created in it and all I saw was very nice scenes and characters with dead eyes and no expressions with little to no blinking
I was gonna say you'd been watching my channel then I recalled "nice scenes" being mentioned :lol:
Ok Wendy I saw a few of yours as well, lastly: Ranger Gurl 2 and Wendy spring butt
Those are really well done, especially the character animation. They both get pretty close to Pixar level, which is as good as it gets IMHO. My alltime favorite is this three minute short animation, "Jack Jack Attack!" that is based on Pixar's feature "The Incredibles":
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BPSbxzr5fmU
I think this level of character animation is possible in Carrara, but I've never tried to get that kind of detailed expression. I think it would take a LOT of time.
I was gonna say you'd been watching my channel then I recalled "nice scenes" being mentioned :lol:
Ok Wendy I saw a few of yours as well, lastly: Ranger Gurl 2 and Wendy spring butt
both those iClone, I have 700+ videos and use both iClone AND carrara so bit hard to sort out which
mine just fun, not serious animation.
Those are really well done, especially the character animation. They both get pretty close to Pixar level, which is as good as it gets IMHO. My alltime favorite is this three minute short animation, "Jack Jack Attack!" that is based on Pixar's feature "The Incredibles":
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BPSbxzr5fmU
I think this level of character animation is possible in Carrara, but I've never tried to get that kind of detailed expression. I think it would take a LOT of time.
My problem is that they are borrowing from cartoon facial expressions. enlarged eyes, etc.
Here is what I am going after, if possible
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r2RR6KBlcs8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FiMPyJdPyO4
I feel this should be our goal to reach, for me it why I go thru all this, its a game I want the movie part of it
I like it, mostly because it allows a wide range of settings depending on how much time you want it to take. In the two day "48 Hour Film Contests", each frame of a five minute (9000 frames +/-) animation needs to take seconds, not minutes. Except maybe a "money shot" still for panning around in the video editor. Here is a still from my DAZ Gallery done in Carrara with good lighting:
http://www.daz3d.com/gallery/#images/6415/
I don't remember how long it took to render, maybe 15 minutes or more, but for a single still, no big deal. But if you tried a 5 second animated camera pan ... big render time trouble in a two day contest.
Here is a short animation from a two day contest similar to the 48 Hour, done in Carrara and the only one the judges ever liked:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GN1pXYvEqIc
You'll notice a lot of large stills which are panned around in the video editor, plus some post 2D effects that render very fast. When you've got two days, anything goes.
:bug:
I like it, mostly because it allows a wide range of settings depending on how much time you want it to take. In the two day "48 Hour Film Contests", each frame of a five minute (9000 frames +/-) animation needs to take seconds, not minutes. Except maybe a "money shot" still for panning around in the video editor. Here is a still from my DAZ Gallery done in Carrara with good lighting:
http://www.daz3d.com/gallery/#images/6415/
I don't remember how long it took to render, maybe 15 minutes or more, but for a single still, no big deal. But if you tried a 5 second animated camera pan ... big render time trouble in a two day contest.
Here is a short animation from a two day contest similar to the 48 Hour, done in Carrara and the only one the judges ever liked:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GN1pXYvEqIc
You'll notice a lot of large stills which are panned around in the video editor, plus some post 2D effects that render very fast. When you've got two days, anything goes.
:bug:
For lack of better word, this is my bible: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r2RR6KBlcs8
Yes, the high end games have a level of realism that is seriously unbelievable. I've been playing Grand Theft Auto 5 and simply shaking my head at the detail. In real time. Under my control. This is what Arthur C. Clark was talking about: "Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic."
Of course, the production budget for GTA5 was over $250 million, a little more than I spend. But maybe I should (har), they sold a $billion in three days.
Yes, the high end games have a level of realism that is seriously unbelievable. I've been playing Grand Theft Auto 5 and simply shaking my head at the detail. In real time. Under my control. This is what Arthur C. Clark was talking about: "Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic."
Of course, the production budget for GTA5 was over $250 million, a little more than I spend. But maybe I should (har), they sold a $billion in three days.
Game engines environment is already setup for this, which was why I was going to use Unity 4
My problem is that they are borrowing from cartoon facial expressions. enlarged eyes, etc.
Here is what I am going after, if possible
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r2RR6KBlcs8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FiMPyJdPyO4
I feel this should be our goal to reach, for me it why I go thru all this, its a game I want the movie part of it
I guess I'm not really sure about the questions you are asking. If you want to pose the figure's face, there are morphs for that. The mechanics of it aren't much different than Poser or DAZ Studio in that there are sliders to control the degree of the morph.
Or are you asking the more broad question, as in how do you animate convincing expressions? If that is the question, stick a mirror next to your computer and act out the expressions you wish to convey. To time them, act them out in a scene, while paying attention to a stopwatch or other timekeeper.
As to the render question, I'm not sure if you mean the quality and speed of the renderer, or how to set up the render? The quality of the render will depend on many factors, including lights, shaders, framing, etc. etc. etc.
As to what the goal is, that is up to the individual. If you like the look of the facial animations in the game trailer you linked to, and wish to emulate that, great. Someone else may be in to a more toony look, which is also just as valid.
My problem is that they are borrowing from cartoon facial expressions. enlarged eyes, etc.
Here is what I am going after, if possible
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r2RR6KBlcs8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FiMPyJdPyO4
I feel this should be our goal to reach, for me it why I go thru all this, its a game I want the movie part of it
I guess I'm not really sure about the questions you are asking. If you want to pose the figure's face, there are morphs for that. The mechanics of it aren't much different than Poser or DAZ Studio in that there are sliders to control the degree of the morph.
Or are you asking the more broad question, as in how do you animate convincing expressions? If that is the question, stick a mirror next to your computer and act out the expressions you wish to convey. To time them, act them out in a scene, while paying attention to a stopwatch or other timekeeper.
As to the render question, I'm not sure if you mean the quality and speed of the renderer, or how to set up the render? The quality of the render will depend on many factors, including lights, shaders, framing, etc. etc. etc.
As to what the goal is, that is up to the individual. If you like the look of the facial animations in the game trailer you linked to, and wish to emulate that, great. Someone else may be in to a more toony look, which is also just as valid.
You are late to the conversation and we kind of moved on from the point you are trying to make, do you know you always start with that phrase (I guess I'm not really sure about the questions you are asking) Not sure if you knew that. I wasnt asking you the question, but thank you though...
Not to be rude...
I am trying to see if Carrara will be where I stay to do my project!
In my own studies, under my individual hero folders of my browser, I have a special folder entitled: "expressions"
In that folder, I save various expression animations along with the cameras suited to go with them. I've spent long hours on the very short list of saves that I have in there. Granted, those aren't the only expression animation I've done, as many of them are actually saved in the scene where I needed them. My expressions folder is where I am only working on expressions, testing which dials work best for which person and how various timing works with them. Although I have yet to actually open one of those files into an existing scene, each experiment does give me practice.
This kind of stuff, the ones that add expression dials to the figure, are the products I really enjoy. Preset dial setting can be great if you don't have a lot of face shaping morphs applied. But these custom characters never seem to do well with those. Well, Dartan can get away with using most, because he's so close to just straight-up M4, with just a few dials changed. But Rosie on the other hand has to have her expressions set up very carefully to get the behavior I want from the mesh.
My older version of Rosie had a whole bunch of custom morphs that I made for her in Carrara, but I had to rebuild her on a fresh V4 figure - as I fell victim to the Power Loader phenomenon. Before I get back into animating her, I'll spend a couple of weeks on adding morphs into her - as she requires a bunch of subtle gestures.
Really? Looks like a perfect 'ignore' candidate to me.
Not to be rude myself, but you're all over the place like a bouncing ball. :blank:
In my own studies, under my individual hero folders of my browser, I have a special folder entitled: "expressions"
In that folder, I save various expression animations along with the cameras suited to go with them. I've spent long hours on the very short list of saves that I have in there. Granted, those aren't the only expression animation I've done, as many of them are actually saved in the scene where I needed them. My expressions folder is where I am only working on expressions, testing which dials work best for which person and how various timing works with them. Although I have yet to actually open one of those files into an existing scene, each experiment does give me practice.
This kind of stuff, the ones that add expression dials to the figure, are the products I really enjoy. Preset dial setting can be great if you don't have a lot of face shaping morphs applied. But these custom characters never seem to do well with those. Well, Dartan can get away with using most, because he's so close to just straight-up M4, with just a few dials changed. But Rosie on the other hand has to have her expressions set up very carefully to get the behavior I want from the mesh.
My older version of Rosie had a whole bunch of custom morphs that I made for her in Carrara, but I had to rebuild her on a fresh V4 figure - as I fell victim to the Power Loader phenomenon. Before I get back into animating her, I'll spend a couple of weeks on adding morphs into her - as she requires a bunch of subtle gestures.
I like the setup in the still scene, we both know we can make a still look great, almost perfect. we can hide what we dont want to be seen , etc. animation shows our flaws what we missed etc. I feel I need to do so as well expose myself let you comment on me as well to be fair. I will upload what I done in iclone and wont be using in my project. I ask all thesr questions so I wont have to find out the hard way I might have to not use Carrara (as I did with C4D, iclone and Maya) I am so close to not doing that with all your help
Not to be rude myself, but you're all over the place like a bouncing ball. :blank:
TYVM!!!!!!!!!!!!