Victoria 4 or 5
Tsuzura
Posts: 119
I'm planning on buying Victoria 4 Pro Suite or Victoria 5 Pro Suite and I was wondering what are the differences between V4 model and V5 model?
Also what do I have to buy to get the male genitals and can I use them as a prop so I can use it on other models?
Post edited by Tsuzura on
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Victoria 4 can be used in a wide variety of software packages, including DazStudio (going back to at least DS 1.5), Carrara, Poser 4 & up. and some other software.
Victoria 5 can only be used in DS4.0 & up.
She can also be used, with varying degrees of success in Poser 9 & up with DSON plug in, as well as Carrara 8.5
I would recommend Vicky 4, but that's my preference.
Best of luck!
DAZ is already at Victoria 6, which means DAZ addons will be mainly focused on development for the newer figures. While there is plenty of items for V4, newer addons development will be much slower at the DAZ store.
I say go with Victoria 5 which is based on Genesis 1. With the GenX plugin and the iconic shapes addon you can use V4 and V3 clothing on genesis as well as characters and textures for V4, much more versatility.
There is a huge base of existing morphs for Victoria 4.
V4 is usable in Blender, Poser, and Daz Studio.
.
If either or both of those matter to you, go with V4.
V5 can be used in all those too, robkelk. Does V4 have some special extra functionality in Blender I am not aware of? If so, please let me know. I am interested.
If you have the latest version of DAZ studio (which is free so that should be no impediment) then V5, in my opinion. If you have older versions of Carrara and utilize it extensively, then you may want to opt with V4.
And in addition to having the entire wardrobe of v4 available to her, V5 has all the wardrobe of Genesis, M4, D3, etc, etc. open as well as she is a Genesis figure.
I happen to prefer V4 as well, because she's usable in more 3D software, but I did like the idea of Genesis 1, so I do have DS 4.0 Pro along side my DS 3 Advanced and Poser 9.
That said, I have both the V4 and V5 Pro Suites, but still use V4 more. I have not gotten into V6 or DS 4.5/4.6, but that's a personal preference, and I won't bore you to death with the details. :coolsmile:
Considering what everyone said here....I'm still not sure :<<br /> I think I will get V4 because I found alot of texture for that (and for genesis) that I want to use.
Now, can you guys tell me the difference between Aiko 4 and Aiko 5?
I'm thinking of going Victoria 4, Aiko 4 and Genesis for my models/renders.
With this
http://www.daz3d.com/v4-and-m4-shapes-for-genesis
and this
http://www.daz3d.com/genesis-generation-x
you can use any V4/M4 texture, any V4/M4 clothing (shoes can be a problem) on genesis as well as any V5 items. This also gives you the V4 base on genesis which is just like having V4 instead of spending the $30 on V4 alone.
Don't get me wrong, I love V4 and have tons of addons for her, but this solution lets you have the best of both worlds for cheaper.
Yes, what FSMCDesigns said. :)
Personally, I wouldn't recommend buying either Pro Suite right now, as the Pro BUNDLES for both V4 and V5 go on sale quite frequently for ridiculously low prices (as will probably happen again in March for March Madness, but at the very least as a fast grab). And when they do that, the effective savings you get with the Pro Suites tends to go out the window. For example, all of the Gen5 Bundles except H5 were practically given away back during the Snowball savings event two months ago (you could get them as bonuses for buying about $25 worth of product in a given week) and the Gen 4s have gone the same route several times (I paid less that $25 for the M4 pro bundle.) Of course, the extra widgets that are added to the Pro Bundles to create the Pro suites go on sale all the time too, and in the case of V5, the items added to her Pro Bundle to make the Suite are the exact same items that are added to the Micheal 5 Pro Suite.
Frankly, unless you absolutely, desperately have to have all those items right this very second, my recommendation is to buy the Genesis Evolution Morph bundle if you haven't already (you'll need it in order to use V5 anyway) and use the base genesis 1 figure to practice with until the next big sales. BUT... before you do even that.... the single best investment you can make as someone new to this hobby is to buy a three month membership in the Platinum club, http://www.daz3d.com/platinum-club/ That'll give you a discount of at least 30% and as high as 70% off the Pro Bundles depending on what other sales are running, and when you factor out the fact that you get three monthly $6 coupons towards the purchase of DAZ originals, your effective end cost is only $2 a month.
Okay. Short version: ANY figure identified by the number 4 is pre-Genesis. Ergo, it is older technology.
This is not a bad thing in itself. However, what it means is that these are NOT weightmapped figures. Non-weightmapped figures do not bend as well as weightmapped figures unless you add a lot of expansion sets. There are loads of such sets out there, but they are add-ons and they cost extra. Also: while they are heavily supported, they are no longer being developed by their originators. They are also considerably higher poly-count than newer figures, so you cannot usually fit as many of them into a scene. On the other hand, since there are no conflicts with the weightmapping they can be used in just about any program.
Figures identified by the number 5 are Genesis 1. They are weighmapped. They are weightmapped to work in Studio. The DSON plugin is designed to make them usable in Poser, it takes some work and can be problematic. Genesis is also pretty widely supported by the vendors (particularly the ones here, this is DAZ country, after all). But Genesis is also no longer being developed by its originators they are now working on Genesis 2 which is figures that are identified by the number 6.
Genesis 1 is more morphable, Genesis 2 is a bit more finely tuned and bends slightly better. Autofit also works a bit better for those figures that it is designed to autofit from. Unfortunately to get the best out of autofitting takes either some add-ons or some training in the use of things like the transfer utility. The bases for all three (since Genesis 2 has a gender split) come free with Studio, but the named figures (Victoria, Michael, etc) are all specific morph targets designed to make generating your own characters easier and more varied. They are all add-ons that cost extra.
Oh, one more thing. What software you can use a figure in really only matters if you plan on using a lot of different programs. If you're already using Poser, there are a lot of points to be made for using V4.
However, if you're going to be working primarily with DAZ Studio, I think the single most important thing to keep in mind is that V4 is really only set up to use items made for the other Gen4 females easily, and that's a market base that DAZ has been supporting less and less with new product. On the other hand, V5 can use almost all of the Gen 4 female accessories, as well as those for the male Gen4 figure, M4, PLUS all of the items made for all of Gen 5 figures and, with some inexpensive clone shapes and accessories from people like SIckleyield, all of Gen 6's AND most of Gen 3's. So while V4 has the largest pool of items and accessories made for any single figure, the base pool of items that V5 can use is easily double that of V4's.
I think this is a very hard question to answer without knowing what software you want to use with the characters and what you want to use the character for.
V4 is older technology, but it is more widely supported. The majority of Poser users are probably still using V4 mainly.
V5/Genesis is newer technology, but it does not work as well in other tools like Poser.
V6/Genesis 2, which you are not even considering, is even new technology. It works well in DAZ Studio.
I am told by a friend that uses Carrara that Genesis 1/V5 works well with the latest release, but V6/G2 is still unstable in Carrara.
What software you want to use makes a big difference.
The basic difference with A4 and A5 is that they are different generations, which means that:
- A4 is just a PLUGIN for V4, just like S4 and G4 - even if you only want to use A4, you are forced to buy V4 AND her morphs++ as well to get A4 to work; this is true for Generation 4 males like H4, F4 and M4 with the last one being the base - with his morphs++).
- A5 is a morph for Genesis, which - as with Genesis morphs - needs nothing but A5. So you may only buy A5 and use her as you desire.
Another thing about Generation 4 and 5... Most of the time you add another morph pack of a figure (be it V5, M5, V4, M4 or whatever), you also get a new UV-map, which allows you to use every texture designed for said UV-map. V4 and M4 UV-maps (if K4, I'm not certain) are shipped natively with Genesis, so you can use every V4 or M4 skin on the figure and get the same (or nearly the same) results. If you add Young Teens for example, then you still can use their textures or Genesis (no matter which morph you dial), you will just need to choose a proper UV-map from Surfaces Tab.
GenX transfers morphs from Generation 4 and 3. The main point about V4 is that, being older than Genesis, she has an enormous amount of products designed for her. On another hand, she is gender-split (just like Gen2F and Gen2M by the way), so even her "male morph", Vittorio, is a dead alley if you want males. Genesis can have mixed characters, for example my Mayflower custom-dialed morph uses Jaime by Raiya for her face. Genesis also has been on the market long enough to get an extensive wardrobe, while autofitting works well most of the time. If you want to have a variety of morphs (which applies especially for fantasy cover artists and traditional artists needing a reference), Genesis would be a wise choice. But if you just need quite realistic females and males, V4 should be enough. Also V4 works better in Poser than Genesis does, although it also depends on an individual experience. Some people I know who use Poser never reported any problems with Genesis.
I'd suggest to take a look at various shops and see what grabs your eye then return to this thread :).
Base Genesis is included with DAZ Studio 4.6, and all the Generation 5 figures (V5 A5, S5...) work exceptionally well in it. V4 is old tech, two generations old in fact and getting older by the day.
With this
http://www.daz3d.com/v4-and-m4-shapes-for-genesis
and this
http://www.daz3d.com/genesis-generation-x
you can use any V4/M4 texture, any V4/M4 clothing (shoes can be a problem) on genesis as well as any V5 items. This also gives you the V4 base on genesis which is just like having V4 instead of spending the $30 on V4 alone.
Don't get me wrong, I love V4 and have tons of addons for her, but this solution lets you have the best of both worlds for cheaper.
If I buy those two then wouldn't I be able to use all of the V4 and M4 add-ons?
Wouldn't I need to buy the base model and Morphs++ for V4 and M4 to use GenX or their morphs? I have some body and head morphs for V4 and I want to know if these can also be use for Genesis through this.
Will the clothing be able to use on Genesis through Smart Content?
Also for everyone, I use mostly DAZ Studio so I won't be using poser.
I would personally recommend going Gen 5 as well. Aside from being able to use Gen 4 morphs through Gen X, the textures transfer well from the Gen 4 figs without much hassle. Weight mapping is a huge advantage over Gen 4 when it comes to posing. Clothes for Gen 4 fit well and those that don't are much easier to tweak save perhaps for some footwear. Creature morphs are also better from my observation, which opens up a lot of potential, yet more cost effective than shiny new Gen 6.
If you buy content strictly from Daz3d then Genesis V5 is more of their focus but it appears to me it's taking a back seat to V6. If you look at other content sites V4 is very much alive and well and still versatile. I use and prefer V4, I find it a much more versatile female model.
The funny thing is, a lot of the people who are promoting V4 are the same ones who are always here on the forums griping about the lack of any new products at DAZ for V4. Because, except for hair sets, DAZ has basically dropped out of the V4 business and while there are PAs making new things for her here, it's just a trickle compared to three years ago.
And yes, there ARE a lot of other sites still supporting V4 to a much greater degree BUT... and this is a huge but...
A lot of those V4 items on those other sites are NOT completely functional in DAZ Studio.
You see, beginning with Poser 5, Poser's been changing their material setups to things that are not supported by either earlier versions of Poser or DAZ Studio. That's why you'll see a lot of V4 outfits, characters and texture packs on Renderosity & RDNA with big notices specifying the earliest version of Poser that they're "safe" for, and disclaimers saying "Not tested or supported in DAZ Studio". Many more may not even have a warning because the unspoken assumption at those sites is that most of their customers are Poser users, and that you'll automatically know that any dynamic outfit won't work in any version of DAZ. And since those sites DON'T have the 30 day money back guarantee that DAZ does, if you buy it and it doesn't work, well... you're kinda stuck with it. I spend a lot of money over at Rendo, but as someone who primarily uses DAZ Studio these days, I have to research every item before I buy it to make sure that I'm getting something I can actually make work. And I have the fallback of owning Poser Pro 2012 just in case I mess up.
That said, V4 is a very useful thing to have around, just like it's nice to have your old car in the garage in case the new one acts up. However, if you're going to be using DAZ Studio, a lot of the basic features like Auto-Fit are built around Genesis. And that that focus is only going to increase as each new generation of the software comes out. Using V4 on DS 4.6 is not unlike buying a new car and then putting donut tires on it to save money. Yes, it works and it may be a bit cheaper, but it'll be a lot less efficient and take you a lot longer to get to where you want to go.
As others have noted, a lot really depends on what application you plan to spend most of your time in.
If you're using Poser, for example (which I do -- a lot!), the generation-4 figures (V4, M4, and their variations, siblings and whatever) are probably your best bet. If you're primarily a DAZ Studio user, then focus on Genesis (V5/M5 and their kin) and beyond.
If you use both (which I do!), then, well..., heaven help you! Personally, I use the Generation-5 figures (Genesis 1) exclusively in DAZ Studio, because the DSON Importer for Poser with those figures is hit-or-miss, at best; truth is, I have never been able to get the first-generation Genesis figures to work consistently or reliably in Poser. The Genesis 2 figures, on the other hand (V6/M6 and on down the list), work great in Poser (Poser 10 and Poser Pro 2012, by the way), using the DSON Importer.
And that's how I have my content libraries set up: Generation-4 and earlier are almost exclusively installed in Poser runtimes (which can be used by DAZ Studio as well; it's just a bit more effort), Genesis 1 content goes into my DAZ Studio Content library, and Genesis 2 content goes into a special 'DSON Content' library that is shared by both applications. As you can probably guess, there is considerable overlap involved there, but that's the general rule when it comes to where I tell the Install Manager to put my stuff.
That way, the only issue I have to grapple with is which application to launch, and that question almost always hinges on the lighting effects I want to use! (Poser lights I can generally handle pretty well; DAZ Studio lights..., eh, not so much. :P )
Will I be able to use all the V4 and A4 morphs, faces, textures, bodies, and clothing with Genesis if I buy the: "V4 and M4 Shapes for Genesis" and "Genesis Generation X"?
Would I have to buy the V4 and M4 base models and Morph++ to use them?
Also I'm probably only going to use DAZ Studio
Textures are no problem. Even without the V4/M4 shapes, Genesis can use the V4 textures out of the box. That goes for V4 Clothing, too. M4 does well enough with the Auto-fitting, but from my experience, better to get the M4/V4 shapes.
A4, you'll need the A4 shape for Genesis (which is bundled with the H4 or get the iconic set which includes F4 and Girl 4).
Character Morphs, you need V4 and M4 (and also A4 and such if you plan on exporting those, too) and Morphs++ first to export with Gen X. Without those, you'll only be able to use the skin textures.
Alright.
Do you think these will have everything I need? (excluding clothes)
http://www.daz3d.com/anime-manga-starter-bundle
http://www.daz3d.com/v4-and-m4-shapes-for-genesis
http://www.daz3d.com/gen-4-iconic-shapes-for-genesis
http://www.daz3d.com/genesis-generation-x
http://www.daz3d.com/victoria-4-2-morphs
http://www.daz3d.com/michael-4-morphs
http://www.daz3d.com/genesis-evolution-morph-bundle/
Yeah, that looks like all you'll need at that start. Later on, I'd also recommend the creature creator morphs and the muscularity morphs, as well as ZeV0's Aging and shape shift morphs.
You might also want to get DieTrying's morphs that Sickleyield converted which just pushes what you can do with customizing Genesis further... and they're free! http://www.sharecg.com/v/58198/favorite/21/DAZ-Studio/DieTryings-182-V4-Morphs-for-Genesis?interstitial_displayed=Yes
:coolsmile:
......That is actually a good starting setup.
If you join the PC for the base 3 month first (not on the same order), you can get most of these at 30% - 65% off. I also see that GenerationX is on sale at 40% off. The base membership is only 24$ and will probably pay itself back (and then some) just with the purchases you have outlined above.
As previously mentioned, being PC member you also can get a lot of props hair and clothing for 1.99$ - 3.99$ as well as a base 30% off on all Daz Original content, free content, & special coupons/deals to get you going. For example as a PC member all the Daz original YoungTeens5 content in he current sale is 65% instead of 50% off. this makes the YoungTeens5 Starter Bundle 24.48$ (instead of 34.98$). Note, there are no Gen4 teen/preteen figures or morphs to make Vicky4/Mike4 into teens so if you intend to also work with younger characters this may be a good option as well
I would love to get these while their on sale but problem is that I don't have the money now to pay for this until I get paid which probably won't be until around Friday :<</q>
DAZ Studio's 'Auto-Fit' feature can handle most of the clothing (although shoes tend to pose a bit of a problem, for some reason; then again, I have a hell of a time finding shoes that fit, myself, so...!) For textures, as long as you select the right UV mapping in the Surfaces panel, you shouldn't have too much of a problem.
For the rest (morphs, bodies, faces/expressions, poses and such), you'll definitely need the "legacy" (i.e., Generation-4) shapes, because GenX starts with a base Generation 4 shape -- Michael or Victoria -- and then adds whatever character morphs it finds in the character (the Poser *.cr2 file) you're transferring. I'm not all that savvy on that score, to tell the truth; if I want to use a Generation 4 character in a scene (A4, as an example, since you specifically mentioned it), I just load that character; why jump through the GenX transfer hoops if I don't have to?
I should mention, though, that the various GenX add-on products (and the reason I got GenX in the first place) are for transferring Generation-3 "legacy" characters to Genesis (i.e., Victoria 3, Michael 3, Aiko 3, Hiro 3, Stephanie Petite, David, the Freak, et al, and characters built on these base figures). So, if you don't plan on transferring any Gen-3-based characters to Genesis, you shouldn't need any of the various add-on packages.
If you plan to create/acquire new characters based on V4 or M4 (I've seen a lot of character injection morphs on sites like ShareCG and Renderosity that specifically require the figure's Morphs++ package), then yes, you probably will need the base figures and their morphs, especially if you're going to "roll your own". As far as needing them to use the Genesis figure, however, no. The Morphs++ packages are built to operate on a specific geometry (V4 and M4), and the Genesis geometry is radically different from those; the morphs just wouldn't work!
And if I am in error about any of this, I have no doubt that I will hear about almost instantly!
cobwebs in V4's temples. feather duster, dust dust whisk
V4 and V5 look very different to me. if you're looking for pretty, go with which one you think is prettiest.
if you're using V4 in poser12 +, there is a weight mapped injection for V4 freebie at the rdna site.
I would love to get these while their on sale but problem is that I don't have the money now to pay for this until I get paid which probably won't be until around Friday :<</div>
...not to worry, they (the Teens5) go on sale rather frequently now. Most likely they will end up on sale again during March Madness.
If you are a PC member you will be able to get a lot of good deals then. When I started in this the being in the PC helped a lot.with building up my runtime/library.
Just on the Anime Manga Bundle alone, as a PC member you will save almost 39$ (hopefully it will be on sale Friday).
Even if it isn't you would still save 30% which is about 18$. With just one more item on your list (as everything there except GenerationX is Daz Original content) you'd easily have the membership paid for.
Another thing that wasn't mentioned, GenerationX is currently undergoing an update to include the ability to transfer morphs to Genesis2 (M & F) as well and scheduled to be released near the end of the month as I understand. If you have the current version, there will be an upgrade offer.
By the way, they're running a 50% off sale on V4/M4 right now, which translates to 65% off if you're in the PC. That makes the V4 Pro Bundle $34.98 for PC members.