Will DAZ3D not support HD tech on normal Genesis 1 figures?
RKane_1
Posts: 3,037
We have seen a slew of Genesis 1 HD recently but all the figures are creature types and no "normal human" types. So far only G2F and G2M "normals" have gotten the HD love.
Is DAZ scared too many people prefer there older Genesis product and won't allow it?
Has just no one thought to do this?
What's up?
I, myself , would LOVE a V5 and M5 HD version. :)
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It's probably because Genesis 2 is so much easier to work with when it comes to humans while Genesis classic requires considerable more amounts of tweaking. I still love Genesis for it's versatility, but for human figures I definitely prefer working with Genesis 2. The bends are nicer, the rigging is more detailed and accurate and they're both far more expressive than Genesis 1 thanks to the higher density faces.
There may be a HD non-creature Genesis figure in the works though, so you might still get your wish. For me though, the joy of Genesis is being able to blend figures together, and having different beasts makes perfect sense.
Oh no, don't get me wrong. Buying ALL the new Genesis beasts I can afford.
Genesis is my favorite figure.
I just think they needs some normal person love too. *smile*
Haha... I don't know why I find this so amusing.... T_T
Genesis 2 is HARDER to work with, not easier... I still use Genesis 1 the most when I'm playing for fun. Yeah I still work with genesis 2 but I still like Genesis 1 the best. And while i love all the animal shapes for genesis 1 and 2, I keep hoping that Kemp Sparky will convert all the V4/M4 critters from philosopher's Egg store, because NO ONE does anthros like Kemp Sparky!!! Rather, they are a particular style of anthro that I think is fantastic.... I have a TON of RawArt anthro shapes too, but the style is markedly different, more towards human faces with animal attributes, while Kemp Sparky's are more animal faces with human attributes, if that makes sense. I collect both, but I still dream that I can either get Kemp Sparky to convert them all to genesis 1, or else I figure out how to make all the morphs work properly with GenX...But would be great to see HD tech work with Genesis one for that.... *sigh*
belovedalia... I couldn't agree with you more and Kemp Sparky is, hands down, one of the best anthro artists for DAZ figures.
I TOO have been clamoring for him to convert all of his wonderful creations to Genesis and I will gladly buy rather than having to buy them each and then converting myself with GenX. I will gladly pay for the conversion.
I would simply like to see HD on the Genesis figure for something other than anthro/creature types. I want to see a V5 and M5 HD version.
It could be that when V6 and M6 were made, they made the HD version first and then converted to low poly later and held HD for separate release when they had the technology perfected and there will simply never be a V5 and V6 because the originals were never sculpted for HD.
It could be because DAZ doesn't want people to use HD for normal people for fear of biting into their profits for their NEWER figure.
I don't know but I would certainly LIKE to. :)
That depends on what you want to achieve. For realistic female / male characters I find the Genesis 2 platform to be easier (and superior). Also content creators - both from the morphing side and clothing creation side - mentioned it is easier to create for e.g. G2F. Autofitting of V4 clothes also works a lot better on G2F, because autofit does not have to deal with the non existing breasts of the androgynous shape.
Personally, I am still using Genesis platform for the odd monster mixes, but not for realistic female / male characters at all anymore. When GenX 2 comes out I might even stop using Genesis for that, but I am not using that many monsters /creatures anyway.
Working from Genesis or G2F/M has its advantages.
Genesis has the advantage of one item technically fits all and morph packs are technically universal. I say "technically" cause nothing is perfect. But, working from a dedicated male or female base figure means that anything and everything that goes into it is ONLY for that sex and is eaiser to dedicate to that sex.
As much as I liked Genesis1, I do find myself more inclined to want to buy for G2F and make stuff for her as well. This is saying a lot for me as I am a die-hard Aiko 3 fan.
On that note, HD will work on either as long as someone makes the HD morphs.
I have yet to get into the HD tech as i really haven't seen any definitive improvements other than for closeups and my system struggles already with 4 or more Genesis 1 figures fully clothed and a detailed environment. Luckily HD is an option, so I am not against it, just not the target market.
I have GF2 and her morphs, yet no matter what I do, have yet to create a viable GF2 body and face morph that works for my projects, so i still prefer genesis 1. Now once the new GenX is released, that may very well change, but for now, GF2 and HD are just a novelty to me that do not fit into my workflow.
Well... it certainly lets you sell the same clothes and morphs twice, so that's a plus. :lol:
Morph creation over all is much, much easier on Genesis 1. For starters you have a broader pallet of morphs available right from the get go. With Genesis 2 you have absolutely nothing. You have to buy all the morphs that Genesis 1 came with if you want to get started. The fact that I can't create a morph on an androgynous base figure and then dial in a combination of male and female features to get the result I want is probably the only thing keeping me from using Genesis 2. Genesis 1 is just a far more versatile character for creating realistic figures since human beings have a mix of what are typically considered male and female gender features.
I was actually reading an article the other day about people born the opposite sex of their hormones (fully functional males born XX and fully functional females born XY). The surprising part was amongst actresses and female models there's a higher percentage of females born XY (chromosomally male) than there is in the general population.
To each of her / his own. I think that the androgynous base watered down the male / female characters too much and you got too many sacrifices (or put in a huge effort via correctives) to get as realistic as a gender split base is / can be. In the end you get some "one for all" morphs due to androgynous base that are not fitting for male and / or female.
As for the clothing, with Genesis 1 I really loath the morph projection via the androgynous base and appreciate that with G2F we don't have that anymore.
In essence, with regards to the topic, for me personally my point still stands, it hardly makes sense for Daz to invest in HD morphs for "normal Genesis 1 shapes", since concerning male / female morphs Genesis 1 is the inferior model.
Inferior in your estimation and your opinion which not everyone agrees with.
Thus me voicing my desire for more Gen 1 HD love. :)
Of course it is my opinion, but certain things like inferior bending of Genesis versus G2F support that and for the "normal shapes", which you asked support for, you don't don't need monster mixing. Sales figures seem to support G2M / G2F, too.
Can I understand that not everyone is willing to invest into a switch / addition? Of course, but if the sales figures essentially show that the switch basically happened with regards to "normal shapes", then I don't see HD morphs for V5 happening from Daz perspective.
I wonder if it would be harder to make, say, a viable V5 HD morph for an androgynous base? I would think so.
Honestly I don't have a very discerning eye when it comes to the kind of details others can see in the quality and detail of a figure, but even I have seen how there is a clear difference between the human look of G2M-F and G1. One could argue that the quality of the content has just been better, but even if that were true, there clearly has to be a reason why. Both generations of Genesis have their advantages and disadvantages, but to dismiss one because of the strengths over the other, in my opinion, is silliness. I have plenty of use for all of them. If one only wants to use either the old or the new, cool. The other is still just as useful to a whole lot of people.
And you are certainly entitled to your opinion, but I think Genesis 1 HD version of V5 and M5 would sell just fine.
Plus there is an entire catalog of clothes ready to fit them.
Can you please show me where you got to see definite sales numbers? I thought it is something that is everybody is very protective about and there are only claims of better sales, without actual 'spreadsheet' support to prove it.
I find the HD just a gimmick because Unless your doing extreme close ups or Portraits they are useless in my opinion.
*EDIT* thought I would just post these to show what I mean, Though I think the V6 and M6 versions of HD are the most value for money as the Gia 6 and Olympia 6 only come with morphs.
I bought V6 And M6 HD but for the amount of use and the little difference it makes I have skipped buying the others.
Can you please show me where you got to see definite sales numbers? I thought it is something that is everybody is very protective about and there are only claims of better sales, without actual ‘spreadsheet’ support to prove it.
No one is going to post sales number for the general public because personal income really should not be bandied about like that. Not posting them does not mean it isn't true however. Everyone I know has had improved sales with G2 products and my personal sales have more than doubled. In some cases quadrupled. But am I going to tell you exactly how much I make just to prove something to you? Not hardly.
No one is going to post sales number for the general public because personal income really should not be bandied about like that. Not posting them does not mean it isn't true however. Everyone I know has had improved sales with G2 products and my personal sales have more than doubled. In some cases quadrupled. But am I going to tell you exactly how much I make just to prove something to you? Not hardly.
I will say that 3 out of my last 4 G2 items made top sellers at DAZ, and this is the first time ever I had back to back top sellers, especially with male products. All 4 G2 products blew away all my G1 items. My last two G1 product involved much more work than G2 and sold terribly as people decided to protest G2 by buying nothing and slit their own throats in getting G1 products. Between the sales of the two, unless you're making creatures, it makes no sense vendor-wise to make human G1 products when the majority has switched or are on board with G2.
As far as DAZ making G1 products... when has DAZ ever went back to a previous generation to make a major addon?
And you know what...lots and lots of folks are doing just that...closeups/portraits. And, larger renders...you'd be surprised at the difference going over 2k x 2k makes in details.
Well I'm def NOT a big G2 buyer myself.... They may look nicer in some ways but worse in others, IMO, and NOT easier to use for me at all. Not to mention hardly any morphs for them and having to buy everything all over again, all new textures, all new morphs, etc. Can't even use old textures on them. Genesis 1 may have faults and drawbacks, but given the massive melting pot of morphs and content I can use with Genesis, the options are endless.. G2F is still quite limited unless i have a TON of money to shell out for all new content. And even then still a lot more limited than Genesis1. While in regards to bending, and making it easier for vendors to model for, it took a step forward, but in usability, practicality, ease of use, and cost efficiency, took a step backwards.
even great things like Rawart's great creations aren't enticing me. I'm absolutely disliking the very very ruddy overwhelming red default SSS settings that come with all the base G2 characters and won't even use them without a lot of work on redoing them-that would have been a lot easier on genesis 1. I still do it, because working with Genesis 2 is important, and so is knowing how to use Genesis 2 figures and shapes. But I'm much happier and at ease with the simplicity of Genesis 1.
I'd love more detail on Genesis1 and I hope that the push for the genesis 2 stuff doesn't erase the necessity of genesis1 stuff (SickleYield, thank you so so much for supporting both...I'll continue buying all your genesis 1 content!!!).
The last several months has seen a major shift of my spending habits shift away from Daz and over to rendo and rdna. Mostly because the sales tactics don't make it easy for me to buy (buy these new G2 items to buy these category things on sale!- Welp since I don't want the new G2 things, don't get the sale.... sigh).
Genesis 2, while more limited to begin with, has far and away more options than Genesis 1 did. Remaining compatible with Genesis clothing and hairstyles, along with V5/M5 skins, as well as being inter-compatible between the two sexes is one highlight, giving you your entire Genesis library as a good starting point for clothes. You can even fit V4+K4 clothes without an additional purchase if you're cunning enough to use classic Genesis as a mid-way point.
Because of Genesis 2's lower-jaw rigging, you have more options when it comes to expressions and the new surface layout makes it easy to select all skin surfaces for common adjustments.
lol Just waiting for the way to make HD myself here, along with the GenX upgrade my characters will look nice but I never hold my breath, things take a long time. I would rather know inside out what I need to make a "Good" character work then have to buy into an already made one. The Characters I made I never sold and are all G1. But I made my own bends for them so they look good on G1. I've made my own clones for G1 also and used the transfer utility to convert Clothes to G1 from G2. So nothing is a problem in a workflow between "Bases". even Generation 2 or Poser 4 characters clothes can be used on my G1. So...... Getting my stuff on the G2 Base(s) wont be a problem, I just want the tech to be HD on my end. I am on of the people that boycotted HD sofar because I want the tech to be something I can create. then I will put the money into it. That's just my opinion. Besides most of my stuff is far away human with one exception and its a celeb look alike so.....
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The V6 and M6 models are beautiful figures. I have 'em. I have converted all my Genesis morphs to them.
I also, however, like V5 and M5 and I also think HD would look great on them as well. It would improve the look of the figure for close-ups.
Can't be many arguments about that.
Whether you doubt it will happen or not is irrelevant to my original post about my desire for them as it does not deter it in the least.
Thanks. :)
Desires are great, but just setting your expectations. But to be honest, with Stephanie 6 rolling out today, you really should be setting those expectations fairly low that DAZ will do it. We're about 6 figures deep into Generation 6; I'd doubt a double back to Gen5 unless a PA decides to make a product for it.
My expectations are my own to manage, thanks. :)
And I am hoping a PA does just that, M3D. Thanks.
Awesome.
Ok, back to my HD'ing my next Gen6 product.
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That depends on what you want to achieve. For realistic female / male characters I find the Genesis 2 platform to be easier (and superior). Also content creators - both from the morphing side and clothing creation side - mentioned it is easier to create for e.g. G2F. Autofitting of V4 clothes also works a lot better on G2F, because autofit does not have to deal with the non existing breasts of the androgynous shape.
Personally, I am still using Genesis platform for the odd monster mixes, but not for realistic female / male characters at all anymore. When GenX 2 comes out I might even stop using Genesis for that, but I am not using that many monsters /creatures anyway.
I think content creators didn't care for Genesis as much because they felt an obligation to make gender neutral items, when most want to focus on female items only.
Great. I might buy it, I may not.
But if you were to build an M5HD figure up to your usual standards, you would have my money but I won't hold my breath.
And any other vendor that still loves G1 and has good skills, I am game. So is my money.
Of course, the exception here is when you're using the youth morphs from Zev0, and plenty of items don't have that optimisation. Luckily, Zev0 is a very talented designer, so the underlying mesh is deformed in such a way that these deformations aren't nearly as noticeable. They're still present on various different items, but you'll always get that when you fit clothing to a shape it wasn't designed for.
As for the making the HD morphs public. Daz 3D is a business, and like all businesses they'll want to keep their big advancements under wraps for as long as they can. Aside from rivals 'borrowing' the tech, there's also the simple issue that currently all HD morphs are being released through the Daz store. That means money for Daz as well as the PA.
I don't think customers who bought a product for the 5 figures expected them to all work flawlessly on both genders and the various creatures. It was a bonus that they could be fitted, but I doubt there were people complaining that S5's sundress didn't look right on M5.