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I think my point is being missed... I never claimed that all my store icons include people of color. I said that all my products have people of color in the promos, which means the popups you see when you go to the product page, not the store icon. Open the promos I spent days rendering and you will see that I, in fact, do just as I said. As for the legacy shapes, each of them are Caucasian characters, not because I chose it, but because the originals are and that is the purpose of the sets... To reproduce the originals. You and others are trying to make me look like a hypocrite and I take that personally, whether you meant it or not. I'm not embarrassed because I am not wrong. Always might have been an exaggeration, but of the 9 products, 5 have people of color in the promos and a sixth uses pink and blue in place of human tones. So, three out of nine and I'm made to look like a liar. And don't forget, people of color doesn't just mean African. You say ONE, I say count again.
I'm not going to fight with you. As I said I wasn't calling anyone out or trying to make you look like a hypocrite. If you feel that way, that's on you and nothing I can do about it.
This is timely only because I received my weekly Renderosity newsletter today with the link to their newsletter monthly freebie. When I followed the link to their site to check it out, it was for a bracelet and earrings set for V4 by lunchlady, and the promos featured a lovely black woman.
So there are some vendors who are using different ethnic characters in their promos for products other than character sets. Oh and I checked her store, and the character set she used for the promos is not one of her own.
You do know what they say about excuses, right? Yeah, everyone has one. What does any of that have to do with me telling a established professional that he can find people willing to take their clothes off all over the place if he opens his eyes wider?
The only thing I can change is the way that I look at things but first I have to be willing to look from a different perspective to see it. Change the way you look at things and the thing you look at change.. maybe even get undressed and naked for you. :) Need a picture? LOL
HeraldOfFire can open his(?) eyes as wide as you want, but his comment was that he can't open his wallet as wide as you want.
How long does it take to do one of these "every inch" photoshoots? (I don't know, but I suspect it's measured in days, not hours.)
What's the standard fee for modeling work that takes more than a day? (Again, I don't know, but I suspect it's higher in some places than in others. And, as far as I know, nobody I've met will sign a model release form for free.)
What's the cut that DAZ3D takes for brokerage services? (I suspect that's on the website somewhere.)
Answer all of those questions, and then you can answer this one: How many texture sets does somebody have to sell to break even?
50%
EClark,
I am not certain what a thread on this subject is intended to produce as an outcome. I feel that if you have observed a pattern in the advertising then you should take that up with Daz3d asap. If the purpose of the thread was to get feedback from people about whether they too observe the same pattern you've observed and if so you will then feel justified in going to Daz about the issue, then I'd say you might have gone about this the wrong way. Go ahead and to Daz about it, ASAP. You dont need all of our support. Forget the thread entirely.
Reason; I think you are going to have a difficult time getting any sort of consensus on this issue. The main reason being that until you mentioned it, most people had not noticed the issue. Not because they are insensitive, but just because they hadn't yet made a conscious realization about it for whatever reason. When someone brings up an issue as you have in this thread, people then have to retro-actively try to recall past experiences to see if they too see a pattern among the mosaic of memories. The "now that you mention it" approach to gaining support isn't often very fruitful.
What I am saying is that if YOU see a pattern, then that is all that matters. You should feel free to alert Daz3d to your feelings, and to stay on top of them until you get a response.
Opening a thread dedicated to this issue might leave some people wondering if the goal is simply to drum up anger and resentment for an issue that doesn't even exist in many people's minds; creating a problem where there really wasn't a problem. Some might view the thread as someone simply trying to give Daz3d a headache over something.
I doubt this is your goal, but the result of the thread will be more of a distraction than a real focus.
I have a hard time believing that Daz3d has any sort of policy written or unspoken that would limit promo images to certain races and genders only. On the same token I doubt Daz3d has a watchdog who's job it is to ensure that everyone is represented with an equal degree of emphasis in the promos. I don't think Daz often rejects products because there are no ethnic promo renders, nor do they send products back demanding the artist add in a couple of ethnic characters.
All this to say I doubt there is any coordinated conspiracy. Sometimes things in life are a bit messed up but it isnt anyone's fault, so we shouldn't put the blame on anyone in particular. I'd prefer a Daz3d that let's people do what they want compared to a Daz that would force vendors to make promos the way Daz wants them to be made, no matter how well intended.
Best of luck with Daz3d. Let them know how you feel in an official letter. The higher ups do not read the forums at all. Via thread, your concerns will not reach the ears you are seeking to speak into.
What it tells me is that you're not willing to listen to what an established professional is telling you. He just said that he has trouble finding non-white nude models where he is. I happen to know he isn't in the US. I'm inclined to take his word over yours in this matter.
As for excuses... all I'll say is that it's easy to make claims about how other people should do their work when you don't have to produce the results yourself.
The original poster had a valid point. Several PAs (myself included) have acknowledged it, and made a commitment to trying to do better in the future.
The elephant in the room, of course, is whether products will sell as well if the character used in the primary promo image is a non-white person. I don't know how much the ethnicity of the human model affects the sales of clothing, props, etc., but I've heard from PAs that non-caucasian characters (especially morphs) don't sell as well as caucasian characters. I'm not happy about that, but how much should individual content creators invest in fighting against the tide? This isn't a hobby for most of them, or a social crusade. It's an attempt to pay the mortgage and put food on the table. The content creators are prisoners of the market more than the reverse.
I think I've sided with DAZ and the content creators and I really do appreciate your position and for the most part I believe all parties have acting, "In good faith". That we raise issues of social awareness only goes to show just how courageous you guys are and I'd also like to point out an unenviable position when considering your not getting massive advertising budgets and you have to contend with high customer expectations...
Here is the very core of it... I've pushed you guys and all of you have responded remarkably. Whether or not you get the compensation you deserve for you work, I don't know... I only know I've tried to promote our art to a wider audience for your sake (more customers)... its why I constantly push for easy, stream lined characters that make the novice look professional. You guys have passed every test with flying colors so far and you deserve a pat on the back and a fat pay check but... I hope you get it.
Take care and be blessed.
The TL;DR of this entire thread is: "Ethnicity on DAZ 3D is scarce because there is not enough open resources and the products never sell well."
You're welcome and have a good day. :)
This might interest some of you. For a long time I have tried and thought of a way to tackle the imbalance of different races, and developed the following
http://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/38095/
Those entering the texture end of content creation are faced with few alternatives.
Buy merchant resources and a subscription to 3d.sk or buy/rent the hardware and hire the model/models to acquire a personal library of human resource photos. Then invest in a good graphics application to create the texture.
Which is cheaper?
Which option will help the artist to first break even and then see a profit?
Cost and profits will always win out over PC.