Giselle 6 Genitalia
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We know this. The point is that DAZ's handling of Giselle is a break in the continuity of how DAZ has treated all of its previous characters built on the G2F.
We already know that you can use Giselle with the G2F gens if you use textures from Victoria 6 or one of the other G2F-based characters that the gens are mapped for. That's not the point.
Again, what is so specific about Giselle -- who visually appears to be as radical a departure from G2F Base as Josie is, and who actually appears to be nothing more than a slightly-reworked Josie -- that she requires her own UV set, something which ordinarily would have led DAZ to remap the G2F gens to accomodate her, as it did for Olympia, Gia, Stephanie 6, etc.? If your point is that Giselle is so close in appearance to an adolescent human female that mapping her default skin texture to the G2F gens was a legitimate concern to DAZ, then why wasn't the same precaution taken for Josie as well? DAZ obviously doesn't mind Josie's default skin texture being mapped onto the G2F gens, so why should they mind Giselle's doing the same?
At this point the only thing I can suggest is that you submit a ticket to DAZ help desk with your question and see if you get a response. All anyone here can do is go by what DAZ has done in the past and statements made in the past. The truth of the matter is, since the merger with Gizmoz and the changing of the guard at the top of the heap, DAZ has said very little about when, where, how, or why they chose to do things.
In the end, they really don't have to explain why they have chosen to do what they have done. It's done. You can buy the morph and/or the bundles or not.
The only advanced warning members had that the G2Female base was going to be released before it was in the store was because someone made a mistake an put a character for V6 in the store about a week before it was supposed to be released. Up to that point there had been no indication that DAZ was planning to return to the gender split. As far as users knew, Genesis was the greatest thing to hit 3D since I don't know what.
I did, and I've already returned it for a refund -- too similar to Josie, which I already have (and who, oddly enough, I had bought specifically to use as a fairy morph.)
Giselle is too similar to Josie? Aww, that is kinda disappointing. I kinda liked her elongated limbs and her cute face. Thanks for sharing your opinion Kevin-McKee.
Seriously. I compared G2F Base, Josie, and Giselle side-by-side, and there is little difference visually between Josie and Giselle. Giselle is a tad shorter, somewhat slimmer, and has a more doll-like head and face, but nothing you couldn't dial up on Josie with a little effort, assuming you had the morphs. Her skin is also the palest of any of the G2F characters, which is honestly the only reason I can see to buy her. (Sorry, I don't have her anymore, and I didn't hold on to the test renders I made of her -- I ditched them after I took her back.)
With the G2F Morphs bundle and especially with Zev0's products (which most folks already have or plan on getting), you could easily approximate Giselle.
How does it compare to SY's slender steph 6 morph?
I'm sorry, but I didn't compare Giselle to Stephanie 6 (and I don't have any of SickleYield's stuff, anyways). I was just so taken with her resemblance to Josie that I focused on that. I did find that she could handle the textures from all of the other G2F characters textures no problem, but on such an extreme body shape, the effects weren't all that appealing to me.
There is another option if you got the money, time and patience. Take Giselle into zBrush, create a new UV set, retexture and/or craft a fiber mesh attachment to autofit on her gen. Either way zBrush can get you what you want.
have to disagree on both accounts. i feel DAZ needs to have an adult oriented store with full options for all characters. I understand the credit card company excuse to a degree, but all this puritan, prudish, PG oriented thinking got old a long while back. All options should be included with all figures, so all may choose to do what art they want IMO.
have to disagree on both accounts. i feel DAZ needs to have an adult oriented store with full options for all characters. I understand the credit card company excuse to a degree, but all this puritan, prudish, PG oriented thinking got old a long while back. All options should be included with all figures, so all may choose to do what art they want IMO.
For what it's worth, the credit card thing is not an excuse. Credit card companies make your life hell if you sell adult products. I agree with your puritan, prudish comments but it is, sadly, a fact, that we live in the modern equivalent of the repressed Victorian age in some really odd ways.
You can sell violent material and the credit cards don't blink an eye. But if nudity and/or sex is involved they will make you jump through hoops and charge much more to process payments for you.
As for the whole genitals argument, with Giselle clearly being a younger looking figure it's no surprise they wanted to avoid the issue of including genitals in the pro bundle. Josie's pro pack never included genitals either, for obvious reasons, and only remains compatible with them because the textures used an existing UV set. Giselle is technically compatible in the same way though, so I'm not sure I see the argument.
If I was dead set on nude renders using Giselle's textures it's fairly straightforward (for me) to create a new UV set. So far I've never actually used the genitals for anything more than checking things out to explain issues to fellow forumites ;)
The point of the earlier discussion was this: Giselle did not come with separate genital textures (like Victoria HD or Girl 6) nor could she map her default skin texture onto the G2F gens (like Gia, Olympia, Josie, Stephanie 6, or Victoria 6). She is the first G2F-based character that does not have either capability, and to the best of my knowledge, DAZ has not addressed the issue. With the previous exception of Josie (who uses the Base Female UV set), DAZ has updated the G2F gens to accomodate the UV set for each new G2F-based character, but this wasn't done for Giselle (or at least it wasn't as of last night, the last time I checked), which means that you can't use her default skin texture with them.
The current reigning theory is that this was done (or rather, not done) because -- to many people, apparently -- Giselle too closely resembles an adolescent female, and that DAZ is trying to limit her suitability for adult artwork. This explanation doesn't make sense to me, tho', given the similarities between Josie and Giselle, and especially given that Josie (who is most definitely an adolescent female, and is marketed as such) CAN map her default skin texture onto the G2F gens. This explanation makes even less sense when you also consider that both Josie and Giselle can use the G2F gens along with the textures from Victoria 6, Stephanie 6, etc., especially when you think about the amount of realistic detail the breasts and pubic areas of those textures contain -- if the intent was to keep Giselle from being used for adult artwork, it only works so long as the artist insists upon using her default skin texture; otherwise, anything goes.
So to recap: while Josie and Giselle have very similar body shapes and can be said to represent very similar characters (adolescent females), Josie's textures are based on the G2F Base UV set while Giselle's textures are unique to her own UV set, meaning that Josie can use any G2F-based texture (including her own) with the G2F gens, while Giselle can use any G2F-based texture (except her own) with the G2F gens. This is the discrepancy I've been talking about. It makes absolutely no sense, and I'd love to hear DAZ's explanation.
This also isn't some prurient fascination with 3D genitalia, but rather about DAZ breaking continuity with previous releases without bothering to communicate the reason why to the same people they expect to pay for their products. The 30-day no-questions money-back guarantee is a very nice insurance policy against getting stung by a bad purchase, but it's a hassle and it erodes trust when DAZ doesn't seem to feel that its paying customers are deserving of a simple heads-up (even something as simple as "NOTE: This product is not compatible with the DAZ genital figure and/or textures" on the item's product page). For those users who specifically want products that can be used for adult purposes, this would tell them prior to purchase that a particular item is probably not for them. For detail-driven individuals like myself, this would tell me in advance that DAZ had made a specific change to a particular offering out of character to previous similar offerings, even if it doesn't explain the "why" of that change. Even with a money-back guarantee, I don't like finding out stuff after the fact.
Yes !!!! I agree.
And you can be interested by genitalia without going to adult purposes but to be able to do artistic realistic nude render.
Daz does not need any reason to include or not include the genitals in a figure bundle. They are a business and when there are tricky situations, like the one right now, where people can be confused as to if a character is adult or not, they probaly just want to avoid trouble and therefore skip including the genitals. This saves them headaches in dealing with the cc companies.
Regarding the uv issue:
You can use the Map Transfer - tool in the surfaces tab, just click on the options window there and select it from the dropdown menu. You can then right click into the left empty area and create a new template. Then you drag the hips area from your figure into that template. You can then select base female as the target shape for your selected textures. So in our case the torso texture for the hips area will be reshaped to fit the base female uv set.
The created texture will be saved into a temporary folder. You can check the location on the options for the hips or template. You could change that output folder there, but make sure to NOT use the same folder as your original texture because it will overwrite the textures with the same name and not ask you about it.
Last step is to assign the textures to the female genitalia and choosing base female as the uv set. Done.
The Map Transfer usually does a good job with this. There can be a few minor issues with very feint seams or a bit of stretching, but in 99% of the cases all goes well.
This is about DAZ breaking continuity? When has DAZ ever had continuity? If DAZ had continuity there would have been a Stephanie2 to go along with Vicki2 and Mike2. There would have been Millennium Girls2 and Millennium Boys2. There would have been David 4, Girl5, Kids5...get the picture.
DAZ long ago stated that they would not be doing every figure for every generation.
As for putting a disclaimer on the product page, the disclaimer wouldn't be true. It's not like the gens don't work on the figure. If the gens were disabled as they were for the Genesis child morph, I could see it. It's not like you don't have the option of using another uv set like V5 or V6 that comes with the texture. You don't even have to do something complicated to get it. Changing uv sets in DS can be done on the fly. If the Giselle morph had the gens disabled and only used it's own unique uv set out of the box, the disclaimer would be valid.
If there was no return policy and you were stuck with the product, I'd see where you had cause to complain. However, DAZ does have a return policy and you were able to get your money back. Not sure what the problem really is anymore.
Given how simple it is to UV map something like that, it's still pretty much a non-issue. Heck, I could probably whip a passable version up overnight, though I'm unsure on Daz's view of sharing said UVs. Given that they've not added them in the first place, it's a fair bet they don't intend to add them in the future either. Then again, since all of the Giselle textures are essentially 'Barbie' dolls down below, I don't think there's much point anyway.
And that's because...? It's funny, I always thought the exact opposite was true :D
As for the bigger topic at hand: I find it undeniable, that, due to this issue, Giselle is of only limited use. Her texture, which you really can't assign an age to (although I'll take my chances and bet that it is based on an adult human female not a child, because afaik no one has been arrested during Giselle's creation), cannot be used for nude renders. Not much of a loss considering how incredibly bland the texture is anyway, but it's still a limitation. Given the amount of nude 3D art I see, I would say it's a significant limitation and I would welcome an information about this on the product page.
I may be a special case, but often I don't take a closer look at an item within the 30 days after my purchase. Sometimes I don't even install it during that time. So a warning would be appreciated.
Now given that we are assuming that this was done to prevent anyone using Giselle in adult artwork, would I be right in assuming that Giselle does not come with a fully textured torso as well?
This discussion seems now to be looping through arguments already offered, as well as becoming somewhat fractious. As a result we are locking the thread.