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Wildenlander for Genesis 2 Female?

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  • Male-M3diaMale-M3dia Posts: 3,581
    edited December 1969

    Riggswolfe said:
    Male-M3dia said:

    But what versatility did you lose? I've yet to hear one person give me an answer on this. To be honest, I don't think there's not really any loss, unless you're wanting to put boobs on creatures, or males. Clothing can still come be used on both, as can textures. You may need to do an extra step or two, but you really didn't lose anything from the base figures being split. And from the sales and adoption rate of G2, I don't think it's been that big of an issue for the majority of customers.

    One loss of versatility is how backwards compatible Genesis 1 is . I was able to make use of Generation 3 items and all Generation 4. Thanks to one of the PAs I can get use out of some M4 and V4 stuff on Genesis 2 but only if it is in .duf format and I can't use anything from Generation 3 (that I know of.)

    If you saved any of your clothing when you converted them on Genesis (which you should do so your scene files are smaller), you can autofit those to G2. Several of my promos use for my G2M morphs contain clothing made for D3 and M3. As I said, you really didn't lose any versatility.

  • RiggswolfeRiggswolfe Posts: 905
    edited December 1969

    Male-M3dia said:
    Riggswolfe said:
    Male-M3dia said:

    But what versatility did you lose? I've yet to hear one person give me an answer on this. To be honest, I don't think there's not really any loss, unless you're wanting to put boobs on creatures, or males. Clothing can still come be used on both, as can textures. You may need to do an extra step or two, but you really didn't lose anything from the base figures being split. And from the sales and adoption rate of G2, I don't think it's been that big of an issue for the majority of customers.

    One loss of versatility is how backwards compatible Genesis 1 is . I was able to make use of Generation 3 items and all Generation 4. Thanks to one of the PAs I can get use out of some M4 and V4 stuff on Genesis 2 but only if it is in .duf format and I can't use anything from Generation 3 (that I know of.)

    If you saved any of your clothing when you converted them on Genesis (which you should do so your scene files are smaller), you can autofit those to G2. Several of my promos use for my G2M morphs contain clothing made for D3 and M3. As I said, you really didn't lose any versatility.

    How does this work? I've never tried to save converted clothing but that would be awesome, even if it turned it into a two step process. Don't get me wrong, I quite like G2F and G2M, if nothing else I've noticed poses and facial expressions seem more natural but that is one thing that bugged me. If you can tell me how to save clothes like that it would be awesome! (There are clothes for M3 and Stephanie 3 especially that I quite like.))

  • Cenobite451Cenobite451 Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    Male-M3dia said:
    Cenobite451 said:

    I was actually referring to the HD stuff actually. But yes, you've got me with the weight map thing.

    That said, we're dealing with a visual medium here. The differences we can see - the ones that show up in the final render - are really all that matter. Anything "under the hood" is only relevant insofar as it affects that end result, and the quality thereof.


    The thing you're missing is the fact that vendors are the ones that makes the content for that visual end result. If things bend a certain way or fit a certain way is because they have to add more correctives behind the scenes. G1 required a lot more of that, to see what I'm talking about all you have to do is unhide the dials in G1 and see the mass of controls and correctives that were needed for each figure. Looking at G2, you'll see some correctives but not nearly to the extent of G1. Because of that it's easier for vendors to bring items to market, because less correcting needs to be done for a customer to say "I don't see the differences" ;)

    Which is just a long way of saying "it makes things easier for the vendors."

    Male-M3dia said:

    I appreciate that having separate male and female figures may make things easier for the vendors, but does it really make things so much easier that the increase (or potential increase) in productivity offsets the huge loss of versatility? If so, I've gotta say - you guys have been slacking. Hard. :)

    But what versatility did you lose? I've yet to hear one person give me an answer on this. To be honest, I don't think there's not really any loss, unless you're wanting to put boobs on creatures, or males. Clothing can still come be used on both, as can textures. You may need to do an extra step or two, but you really didn't lose anything from the base figures being split. And from the sales and adoption rate of G2, I don't think it's been that big of an issue for the majority of customers.

    Then you haven't been listening. I mean, you're right, cross-figure fitting can be done. but it takes extra work. A lot of extra work in fact, if you want to do it right - the same amount of work it'd take the vendor to do it. Except a lot of end users don't have the requisite combination of skill, time and patience for that. And even if they did - multiply the extra time it would take vendor-side by the number of end users. That's a whole lot of wasted man-hours.

    That issue didn't exist with G1. I mean, yes, extra correctives and all that - but it took less work to create an article of clothing that gave an acceptable fit for both genders with G1 than it would take to create an identical article and provide fits for both G2 figures.


    Actually I seem to see about the same amount of G2 content that I used to see for G1... although I'm not exactly going to go back and count all the releases over the past three years, so I must admit that's a subjective observation.

    Off the top of my head I can think of exactly one noteworthy Poser vendor who more or less skipped G1 but picked up G2 - AlfaSeed, or AeonSoul or whatever they're calling themselves these days. And that's purely a matter of timing - AS started working on G1 stuff right before G2F came out, at which point it made sense to switch to the latest model. So that's hardly indicative of a general trend.

    Actually there's been a decent amount of clothing that's come out, though it's probably not unisex as in G1. And there's been quite a few vendors that have created G2 items, and a few new vendors that came over from other sites that are now PAs here that focus on G2 items.

    Emphasis mine. You want a loss of versatility? Right there.

    There's been lots of new G2 content, yes. Of course there has. But here's the thing - if G2 didn't exist, there'd be lots of new G1 content instead. About the same amount as there's been for G2, I'd hazard - the overall rate of new releases doesn't really seem to be any different now than it was a year ago. Unless you and RA and Sickle and the rest all picked exactly the same time to run out of ideas of course, and G2 proved to be the one thing that kept you from throwing yourselves from your local bridges. I rather doubt it though. :)

  • Male-M3diaMale-M3dia Posts: 3,581
    edited May 2014

    Riggswolfe said:

    How does this work? I've never tried to save converted clothing but that would be awesome, even if it turned it into a two step process. Don't get me wrong, I quite like G2F and G2M, if nothing else I've noticed poses and facial expressions seem more natural but that is one thing that bugged me. If you can tell me how to save clothes like that it would be awesome! (There are clothes for M3 and Stephanie 3 especially that I quite like.))

    You would save clothing by selecting the clothing item then from the menu at the top select: File->Save As->Support->File Assets (I think that's it, not in front of DS). Then it will open a file dialog; type in the name of the garment.. .then you will get another dialog box with author, product name and item (I think).

    You can give it any author name (if you don't know the original vendor), a product name (so you can group your items together), then the name of the clothing.

    This will save the clothing item. And then you can load this to Genesis 2.

    When you save the item for genesis you would save it under People/Genesis/Clothing... I created a directory called !Converted so it's at the top of the tree and I can see what items I've added in.

    Post edited by Male-M3dia on
  • Male-M3diaMale-M3dia Posts: 3,581
    edited December 1969

    Cenobite451 said:
    Male-M3dia said:
    Cenobite451 said:

    I was actually referring to the HD stuff actually. But yes, you've got me with the weight map thing.

    That said, we're dealing with a visual medium here. The differences we can see - the ones that show up in the final render - are really all that matter. Anything "under the hood" is only relevant insofar as it affects that end result, and the quality thereof.


    The thing you're missing is the fact that vendors are the ones that makes the content for that visual end result. If things bend a certain way or fit a certain way is because they have to add more correctives behind the scenes. G1 required a lot more of that, to see what I'm talking about all you have to do is unhide the dials in G1 and see the mass of controls and correctives that were needed for each figure. Looking at G2, you'll see some correctives but not nearly to the extent of G1. Because of that it's easier for vendors to bring items to market, because less correcting needs to be done for a customer to say "I don't see the differences" ;)

    Which is just a long way of saying "it makes things easier for the vendors."

    Male-M3dia said:

    I appreciate that having separate male and female figures may make things easier for the vendors, but does it really make things so much easier that the increase (or potential increase) in productivity offsets the huge loss of versatility? If so, I've gotta say - you guys have been slacking. Hard. :)

    But what versatility did you lose? I've yet to hear one person give me an answer on this. To be honest, I don't think there's not really any loss, unless you're wanting to put boobs on creatures, or males. Clothing can still come be used on both, as can textures. You may need to do an extra step or two, but you really didn't lose anything from the base figures being split. And from the sales and adoption rate of G2, I don't think it's been that big of an issue for the majority of customers.

    Then you haven't been listening. I mean, you're right, cross-figure fitting can be done. but it takes extra work. A lot of extra work in fact, if you want to do it right - the same amount of work it'd take the vendor to do it. Except a lot of end users don't have the requisite combination of skill, time and patience for that. And even if they did - multiply the extra time it would take vendor-side by the number of end users. That's a whole lot of wasted man-hours.

    That issue didn't exist with G1. I mean, yes, extra correctives and all that - but it took less work to create an article of clothing that gave an acceptable fit for both genders with G1 than it would take to create an identical article and provide fits for both G2 figures.


    Actually I seem to see about the same amount of G2 content that I used to see for G1... although I'm not exactly going to go back and count all the releases over the past three years, so I must admit that's a subjective observation.

    Off the top of my head I can think of exactly one noteworthy Poser vendor who more or less skipped G1 but picked up G2 - AlfaSeed, or AeonSoul or whatever they're calling themselves these days. And that's purely a matter of timing - AS started working on G1 stuff right before G2F came out, at which point it made sense to switch to the latest model. So that's hardly indicative of a general trend.

    Actually there's been a decent amount of clothing that's come out, though it's probably not unisex as in G1. And there's been quite a few vendors that have created G2 items, and a few new vendors that came over from other sites that are now PAs here that focus on G2 items.

    Emphasis mine. You want a loss of versatility? Right there.

    There's been lots of new G2 content, yes. Of course there has. But here's the thing - if G2 didn't exist, there'd be lots of new G1 content instead. About the same amount as there's been for G2, I'd hazard - the overall rate of new releases doesn't really seem to be any different now than it was a year ago. Unless you and RA and Sickle and the rest all picked exactly the same time to run out of ideas of course, and G2 proved to be the one thing that kept you from throwing yourselves from your local bridges. I rather doubt it though. :)

    As I said, for the masses, versatility was not important in the fact that no one wanted unisex clothing. Sales are much higher because gender specific clothing. You still have enough tools at your disposal to make anything unisex as you're working with genesis technology. I've used several female items in my promos for G2 using autofit or the crossfit tool, so as I said, I've don't believe there's been a loss where you can't use items on either figure.

  • greysgreys Posts: 335
    edited December 1969

    Male-M3dia said:
    Riggswolfe said:

    How does this work? I've never tried to save converted clothing but that would be awesome, even if it turned it into a two step process. Don't get me wrong, I quite like G2F and G2M, if nothing else I've noticed poses and facial expressions seem more natural but that is one thing that bugged me. If you can tell me how to save clothes like that it would be awesome! (There are clothes for M3 and Stephanie 3 especially that I quite like.))

    You would save clothing by selecting the clothing item then from the menu at the top select: File->Save As->Support->File Assets (I think that's it, not in front of DS). Then it will open a file dialog; type in the name of the garment.. .then you will get another dialog box with author, product name and item (I think).

    You can give it any author name (if you don't know the original vendor), a product name (so you can group your items together), then the name of the clothing.

    This will save the clothing item. And then you can load this to Genesis 2.

    When you save the item for genesis you would save it under People/Genesis/Clothing... I created a directory called !Converted so it's at the top of the tree and I can see what items I've added in.

    File > Save As > Support > Figure/Prop Assets :)

  • greysgreys Posts: 335
    edited December 1969

    Cenobite451 said:

    Emphasis mine. You want a loss of versatility? Right there.

    There's been lots of new G2 content, yes. Of course there has. But here's the thing - if G2 didn't exist, there'd be lots of new G1 content instead. About the same amount as there's been for G2, I'd hazard - the overall rate of new releases doesn't really seem to be any different now than it was a year ago. Unless you and RA and Sickle and the rest all picked exactly the same time to run out of ideas of course, and G2 proved to be the one thing that kept you from throwing yourselves from your local bridges. I rather doubt it though. :)

    There'd be lots of new G1 content instead. About the same as there's been for G2

    ....Except...not? Genesis really only had the DOs and some of the Daz store PAs behind it. It pretty much got avoided like the plague at other stores, and even here a lot of PAs never really stopped focusing on V4 instead. Gen2 though is getting support from a LOT of vendors and maybe that' because the gender combination just didn't WORK. There's definitely been more new releases coming out as well overall than there was last year.

    If you honestly think PAs not wanting to do twice as much work - or more given how many correction morphs Genesis had to have for every freaking little thing - for the same or less (given that it has been stated multiple times that Gen2 products sell far better) is them being lazy then uh, you need a reality check. They're running businesses. If they can get out two products in the time they'd otherwise only be able to do one, and if both of those products are going to do better than the ONE product they'd otherwise be able to release in that timeframe on their own? Then it's not laziness to not decide to do the one product, it's freaking good business sense.

    Easier to create for and higher sales are a good basis for a business decision. Someone having a tantrum in the forum because but THEY don't like the gender split is not. If people bought for genesis at the level vendors are saying they buy for gen2, people would still be making for it. Pretty much every PA who's spoken up on the topic has said the same thing: Gen2 sells, Genesis doesn't. They're making their living at this, i doubt they'd be turning down Genesis products if they were making enough money to justify their hours. It's not laziness, and I doubt most of them have cut their hours overall, but if they can produce more products in the same time or products that sell better, why the hell WOULDN'T they do that?

    And on the matter of providing G2M/G2F cross-figure fits, it's not just a matter of the fit in the workflow stage for the PA. If they include a fit for G2M on a G2F product or vice versa, then they have to support that figure as well, after the release point. They can't just put in the crossfigure fit and go 'well it's not really for G2M but this is just a little bonus, it's not really part of the product' unless they, for example, distribute the fit files not in the product itself or something.

    As I said, a PA is making business decisions. That's not laziness. It's common sense. It's common sense that they're going to support the product that lets them make more overall, because they're a business. They're living on that money and expecting them to instead do more work for less pay is the same thing as someone suggesting that you start working twenty hours more a week in exchange for a salary cut.

    You don't like the gender split. We got it. We got it two pages ago. So keep using genesis. That's your choice. But the PAs are going to do what's best for their business and expecting otherwise is selfish.

  • Male-M3diaMale-M3dia Posts: 3,581
    edited December 1969

    Some of the Wildenlander items converted using the crossfit tool.

    RayneRefit.jpg
    1000 x 1300 - 179K
  • CypherFOXCypherFOX Posts: 3,401
    edited May 2014

    Greetings,
    I might not have been quite as harsh as @temporal.ranger, but that's pretty much the heart of the argument. The PA's can make more product for the consumers, and do it without many of the problems that plagued Genesis content.

    And yes, at 'rosity, the number of G2[FM] items and PA's supporting them is a LOT more than it was for Genesis. I remember searching and finding...well, SickleYield, who is wonderful, but a single flavor does not a meal make. Now there are many PA's on other stores supporting G2F/M, and it's good.

    It's brought more folks into the Genesis fold, and made more folks willing to work with the weight-mapping models. This is all good for the consumer.

    Folks get attached to their favorite models. (Look for the A3 folks all over these forums!) There's nothing wrong with that. What is wrong is not recognizing that progress moves on, or rejecting the idea that it's even progress. That is what I don't entirely understand, but I don't need to.

    Best of luck with your rendering!

    -- Morgan

    [Edit: And WOW, that looks nice @Male-M3dia... I can see a few spots that I imagine @Luthbel would probably want to tweak, but the best part is that folks can decide for themselves if the fit is 'good enough' that they don't need/want to wait for an official Wildenlander version.]

    Post edited by CypherFOX on
  • FSMCDesignsFSMCDesigns Posts: 12,754
    edited December 1969

    temporal.ranger said:
    .

    You don't like the gender split. We got it. We got it two pages ago. So keep using genesis. That's your choice. But the PAs are going to do what's best for their business and expecting otherwise is selfish.

    Wow nice attitude, I assume also you are a budding PA, remind me to place you on the "no buy from" list 8-I.. Pretty sure most customers don't see the business end and just look at the product and what works for them and genesis 1 was/is pretty revolutionary in that aspect regardless of the amount of work involved. Every customer is selfish since they are buying for "their" needs. I am a modeler and make lots of content for myself, so I have an understanding of what most vendors go thru.

    I doubt there was enough time between genesis 1 and genesis 2 to really gauge the rate of new releases and the amount of outfits released. I know i was still waiting for more assets for genesis 1 when GF2 was released.

    i use both and also find genesis 1 to still be a time saver and prefer it over genesis 2 in most cases regardless of what vendors feel. If it hadn't been for some clients and commissions, I don't know if I would have ever jumped on the GF2 bandwagon (still don't have GM2 installed). I do know that after trying GF2 and her morphs out it was GenX2 that made the figure viable for my projects. What I see is DAZ pushing the genesis 2 bandwagon, not vendors, same as they did with Genesis1. I still welcome more clothing for genesis 1. While I do see a bit more GF2 clothing at rendo than genesis 1, it is still a long ways off from "LOTS". BTW I had my "tantrum" when GF2 was released, now just calling it as I see it

  • Muon QuarkMuon Quark Posts: 562
    edited December 1969

    temporal.ranger said:
    Male-M3dia said:
    Riggswolfe said:

    How does this work? I've never tried to save converted clothing but that would be awesome, even if it turned it into a two step process. Don't get me wrong, I quite like G2F and G2M, if nothing else I've noticed poses and facial expressions seem more natural but that is one thing that bugged me. If you can tell me how to save clothes like that it would be awesome! (There are clothes for M3 and Stephanie 3 especially that I quite like.))

    You would save clothing by selecting the clothing item then from the menu at the top select: File->Save As->Support->File Assets (I think that's it, not in front of DS). Then it will open a file dialog; type in the name of the garment.. .then you will get another dialog box with author, product name and item (I think).

    You can give it any author name (if you don't know the original vendor), a product name (so you can group your items together), then the name of the clothing.

    This will save the clothing item. And then you can load this to Genesis 2.

    When you save the item for genesis you would save it under People/Genesis/Clothing... I created a directory called !Converted so it's at the top of the tree and I can see what items I've added in.

    File > Save As > Support > Figure/Prop Assets :)


    Thanks for that guys. I didn't know you could do that. Good information.

  • Male-M3diaMale-M3dia Posts: 3,581
    edited May 2014

    FSMCDesigns said:
    temporal.ranger said:
    .

    You don't like the gender split. We got it. We got it two pages ago. So keep using genesis. That's your choice. But the PAs are going to do what's best for their business and expecting otherwise is selfish.

    Wow nice attitude, I assume also you are a budding PA, remind me to place you on the "no buy from" list 8-I.. Pretty sure most customers don't see the business end and just look at the product and what works for them and genesis 1 was/is pretty revolutionary in that aspect regardless of the amount of work involved. Every customer is selfish since they are buying for "their" needs. I am a modeler and make lots of content for myself, so I have an understanding of what most vendors go thru.


    Actually you're referring to a customer so I doubt placing a customer on a no-buy list will work ;)

    I doubt there was enough time between genesis 1 and genesis 2 to really gauge the rate of new releases and the amount of outfits released. I know i was still waiting for more assets for genesis 1 when GF2 was released.

    i use both and also find genesis 1 to still be a time saver and prefer it over genesis 2 in most cases regardless of what vendors feel. If it hadn't been for some clients and commissions, I don't know if I would have ever jumped on the GF2 bandwagon (still don't have GM2 installed). I do know that after trying GF2 and her morphs out it was GenX2 that made the figure viable for my projects. What I see is DAZ pushing the genesis 2 bandwagon, not vendors, same as they did with Genesis1.

    So is DAZ pushing vendors over at rendo to Genesis 2 as well? There's a few outfits that was released yesterday and some last week. This doesn't make sense and isn't true. It's the customers that want more and are buying Genesis 2 items. DAZ can put a figure out, but if no one buys content, then vendors won't make anything for it. Remember we live in a free market that's determined by what customers want. If they wanted more genesis 1 items, then they wouldn't have demanded more.. but they didn't when genesis 2 came out. That's what's driving things. DAZ has no control over vendors or customers.



    I still welcome more clothing for genesis 1. While I do see a bit more GF2 clothing at rendo than genesis 1, it is still a long ways off from "LOTS". BTW I had my "tantrum" when GF2 was released, now just calling it as I see it

    It is a lot when you consider there was none (other than sickleyield and dzheng... and SAV did one M5) for Genesis 1, especially when you have several genesis 2 outfits in the first page of the what's hot list there. With Genesis 2, just about every major vendor at rendo did at least one genesis 2 product. There were bundles with Genesis 2 items, and a special sale with M6 characters and clothing... none of that happened with genesis 1.

    Post edited by Male-M3dia on
  • greysgreys Posts: 335
    edited December 1969

    FSMCDesigns said:
    temporal.ranger said:
    .

    You don't like the gender split. We got it. We got it two pages ago. So keep using genesis. That's your choice. But the PAs are going to do what's best for their business and expecting otherwise is selfish.

    Wow nice attitude, I assume also you are a budding PA, remind me to place you on the "no buy from" list 8-I.. Pretty sure most customers don't see the business end and just look at the product and what works for them and genesis 1 was/is pretty revolutionary in that aspect regardless of the amount of work involved. Every customer is selfish since they are buying for "their" needs. I am a modeler and make lots of content for myself, so I have an understanding of what most vendors go thru.

    I doubt there was enough time between genesis 1 and genesis 2 to really gauge the rate of new releases and the amount of outfits released. I know i was still waiting for more assets for genesis 1 when GF2 was released.

    i use both and also find genesis 1 to still be a time saver and prefer it over genesis 2 in most cases regardless of what vendors feel. If it hadn't been for some clients and commissions, I don't know if I would have ever jumped on the GF2 bandwagon (still don't have GM2 installed). I do know that after trying GF2 and her morphs out it was GenX2 that made the figure viable for my projects. What I see is DAZ pushing the genesis 2 bandwagon, not vendors, same as they did with Genesis1. I still welcome more clothing for genesis 1. While I do see a bit more GF2 clothing at rendo than genesis 1, it is still a long ways off from "LOTS". BTW I had my "tantrum" when GF2 was released, now just calling it as I see it

    Actually, no, I'm not looking at being a PA. And I wasn't addressing every person ever who says they don't like the gender split or prefers Genesis over Gen 2 - I was very specifically addressing the person who came into a thread about a Gen 2 product ONLY to complain about the change. I was specifically addressing the person who I quoted who completely ignored people's responses or any view not their own for the two pages of the thread that was supposed to be about something else. I was addressing the person who outright stated that PAs were being 'lazy' by making products for Genesis 2 instead of Genesis. That was the person I was addressing my comments to. The person who came in specifically to make self-proclaimed 'bitter' comments about it. If they'd made the comments and moved on, it would have been no harm no foul. I only commented after multiple posts on the topic by them and I only did it after I felt they were being ridiculous in their expectation and unfair to think that someone should have to take a paycut in exchange for doing more work to suit them.

    Personally I think everyone should use the figure they prefer. No one's harming anyone by liking Genesis over Gen 2 or Dawn over V4 or whatever ridiculous figure war is currently going on. I was annoyed at this specific person who deliberately dragged their dislike of a figure over into a thread about that figure and since they'd demonstrated in their other replies that they weren't listening to diplomacy, I was blunt. From the other responses, I get the feeling I came off a lot harsher than I intended - I was aiming for blunt, not harsh - and if so I apologise - I have Asperger's and tone is very difficult for me to parse.

    However, I think the main point of my argument - that PAs are a business making business decisions and they are going to support the figure that lets them do the most work - and thus make the most money - in a period of time - stands.

  • Male-M3diaMale-M3dia Posts: 3,581
    edited December 1969

    temporal.ranger said:
    FSMCDesigns said:
    temporal.ranger said:
    .

    You don't like the gender split. We got it. We got it two pages ago. So keep using genesis. That's your choice. But the PAs are going to do what's best for their business and expecting otherwise is selfish.

    Wow nice attitude, I assume also you are a budding PA, remind me to place you on the "no buy from" list 8-I.. Pretty sure most customers don't see the business end and just look at the product and what works for them and genesis 1 was/is pretty revolutionary in that aspect regardless of the amount of work involved. Every customer is selfish since they are buying for "their" needs. I am a modeler and make lots of content for myself, so I have an understanding of what most vendors go thru.

    I doubt there was enough time between genesis 1 and genesis 2 to really gauge the rate of new releases and the amount of outfits released. I know i was still waiting for more assets for genesis 1 when GF2 was released.

    i use both and also find genesis 1 to still be a time saver and prefer it over genesis 2 in most cases regardless of what vendors feel. If it hadn't been for some clients and commissions, I don't know if I would have ever jumped on the GF2 bandwagon (still don't have GM2 installed). I do know that after trying GF2 and her morphs out it was GenX2 that made the figure viable for my projects. What I see is DAZ pushing the genesis 2 bandwagon, not vendors, same as they did with Genesis1. I still welcome more clothing for genesis 1. While I do see a bit more GF2 clothing at rendo than genesis 1, it is still a long ways off from "LOTS". BTW I had my "tantrum" when GF2 was released, now just calling it as I see it

    Actually, no, I'm not looking at being a PA. And I wasn't addressing every person ever who says they don't like the gender split or prefers Genesis over Gen 2 - I was very specifically addressing the person who came into a thread about a Gen 2 product ONLY to complain about the change. I was specifically addressing the person who I quoted who completely ignored people's responses or any view not their own for the two pages of the thread that was supposed to be about something else. I was addressing the person who outright stated that PAs were being 'lazy' by making products for Genesis 2 instead of Genesis. That was the person I was addressing my comments to. The person who came in specifically to make self-proclaimed 'bitter' comments about it. If they'd made the comments and moved on, it would have been no harm no foul. I only commented after multiple posts on the topic by them and I only did it after I felt they were being ridiculous in their expectation and unfair to think that someone should have to take a paycut in exchange for doing more work to suit them.

    Personally I think everyone should use the figure they prefer. No one's harming anyone by liking Genesis over Gen 2 or Dawn over V4 or whatever ridiculous figure war is currently going on. I was annoyed at this specific person who deliberately dragged their dislike of a figure over into a thread about that figure and since they'd demonstrated in their other replies that they weren't listening to diplomacy, I was blunt. From the other responses, I get the feeling I came off a lot harsher than I intended - I was aiming for blunt, not harsh - and if so I apologise - I have Asperger's and tone is very difficult for me to parse.

    However, I think the main point of my argument - that PAs are a business making business decisions and they are going to support the figure that lets them do the most work - and thus make the most money - in a period of time - stands.

    +1

  • Richard HaseltineRichard Haseltine Posts: 100,765
    edited December 1969

    /me Plonks a couple of buckets of cold water on the mod table, just because....

  • HeraHera Posts: 1,957
    edited December 1969

    Taking the chanse to ask for some clearification - For G2F I have a plugin which lets me autofit V4's clothes to V6 and her sisters. But I'm lacking one for G2M. So what am I missing for the lads?

  • greysgreys Posts: 335
    edited December 1969

    Herakleia said:
    Taking the chanse to ask for some clearification - For G2F I have a plugin which lets me autofit V4's clothes to V6 and her sisters. But I'm lacking one for G2M. So what am I missing for the lads?

    Michael 4 for G2M - http://www.daz3d.com/michael-4-for-genesis-2-male

    Let's you use the M4 UV textures and provides an autofit clone that lets you fit M4 clothing to G2M.

  • HeraHera Posts: 1,957
    edited December 1969

    temporal.ranger said:
    Herakleia said:
    Taking the chanse to ask for some clearification - For G2F I have a plugin which lets me autofit V4's clothes to V6 and her sisters. But I'm lacking one for G2M. So what am I missing for the lads?

    Michael 4 for G2M - http://www.daz3d.com/michael-4-for-genesis-2-male

    Let's you use the M4 UV textures and provides an autofit clone that lets you fit M4 clothing to G2M. Thanks dear! That one is essentially a must-have, and I have the Vickie one, I can't believe I missed that one!!

  • Cenobite451Cenobite451 Posts: 0
    edited May 2014

    temporal.ranger said:

    If you honestly think PAs not wanting to do twice as much work - or more given how many correction morphs Genesis had to have for every freaking little thing - for the same or less (given that it has been stated multiple times that Gen2 products sell far better) is them being lazy then uh, you need a reality check.

    I was about ready to leave this thread alone but... Christ on a bike. Add another one to the list for remedial reading-comprehension classes... 8-/

    (There's more in there, but why pick a post apart piece-by-piece? The quoted segment was the bit that jumped out at me. And since some people are apparently going to read whatever the hell they feel like into any response I make anyway...)


    EDIT: Okay, just for the sake of giving this post some actual substance:

    temporal.ranger said:

    They're running businesses. If they can get out two products in the time they'd otherwise only be able to do one, and if both of those products are going to do better than the ONE product they'd otherwise be able to release in that timeframe on their own? Then it's not laziness to not decide to do the one product, it's freaking good business sense.

    Well... yeah. No shit.

    Cenobite451 said:
    And if you're selling more G2 stuff than you were for G1 when it was... what, eight months old? Then I guess it was a good business decision.

    Who's ignoring what everyone who disagrees with them is saying again?

    The implication of laziness was tongue-in-cheek - but if the vendors actually are doing half as much work and charging the same prices, then yeah, I'd call that lazy. Well, not so much lazy as disgustingly mercenary I guess. But it's academic, since I don't believe for one second that it's really the case.

    temporal.ranger said:

    Pretty much every PA who's spoken up on the topic has said the same thing: Gen2 sells, Genesis doesn't.

    I've heard from exactly *one* PA on this subject. And hey, I'll take MM's word for it; I'm sure G1 sale do suck now, although I still don't have a clear idea of how G2's sales compare with G1's eight months into its life. The impression I'm getting is that, for MM at least, G2 does a lot better. Which is fine. I don't think the difference is quite night-and-day though.


    And on the matter of providing G2M/G2F cross-figure fits, it's not just a matter of the fit in the workflow stage for the PA. If they include a fit for G2M on a G2F product or vice versa, then they have to support that figure as well, after the release point. They can't just put in the crossfigure fit and go 'well it's not really for G2M but this is just a little bonus, it's not really part of the product' unless they, for example, distribute the fit files not in the product itself or something.

    Didn't I say something like...


    it took less work to create an article of clothing that gave an acceptable fit for both genders with G1 than it would take to create an identical article and provide fits for both G2 figures.

    Oh look, there it is. But I kind of get the sense by this point that you just wanted to yell at me. Which I get - I mean, I do have a need to defend my viewpoint that borders on the pathological. %-P

    Also to correct people, to which end:


    It is a lot when you consider there was none (other than sickleyield and dzheng... and SAV did one M5) for Genesis 1, especially when you have several genesis 2 outfits in the first page of the what's hot list there.

    Point the first: you skipped HFS, which is a pretty major oversight in my opinion. Point the second: all the vendors now doing V4/V6 character packages over there, were doing V4/V5 packages before.

    I did check the What's Hot page, and you're right - there are three G2F items there as of this writing. (I don't think I've ever actually visited the What's Hot page before, so I'll take your word that this sort of thing never happened with G1.) I do sort of feel compelled to point out that two of them are articles of lingerie, and the other one is a set of pinup poses. I'm not surprised these things sell well, but I'm also not sure I'm entirely sanguine about what that implies about the greater Poser/DS community...

    Which I guess is the crux of my problem with G2. In short - what's best for business, isn't necessarily what's best for the community.

    Post edited by Cenobite451 on
  • subluminalsubluminal Posts: 15
    edited December 1969

    FSMCDesigns said:

    the new Wildenlander does look great, but I can see it on a female also, especially the way the breast plate is. I remember when the V4 version came out and many "purists" had a hissy fit because it was open below the neck, that is what made me want to buy it, it looked feminine and not masculine.

    By "purists," do you mean people sick of sexism? With the Wildenlander series, there is no reason to give the male figure the "practical" outfit, and the female figure the "ridiculous but sexy" one. It should either be both sexy or neither sexy.

    If the V6 version is like the V3, I'll be fine. The V4 chest plunge was redic.

  • BarubaryBarubary Posts: 1,211
    edited December 1969

    Cenobite451 said:

    Which I guess is the crux of my problem with G2. In short - what's best for business, isn't necessarily what's best for the community.

    Since you seem to know, what would be best for the community?

  • Male-M3diaMale-M3dia Posts: 3,581
    edited May 2014

    Cenobite451 said:


    Male-M3dia said:

    It is a lot when you consider there was none (other than sickleyield and dzheng... and SAV did one M5) for Genesis 1, especially when you have several genesis 2 outfits in the first page of the what's hot list there.

    Point the first: you skipped HFS, which is a pretty major oversight in my opinion.

    Yes and no. That's all I'm going to say regarding that.

    Point the second: all the vendors now doing V4/V6 character packages over there, were doing V4/V5 packages before.

    Tempesta3d, for example, didn't not do a genesis 1 character, but did a V6 and poses for Genesis 2 female. OOT started off doing one or two genesis 1 items on DAZ but no products on Rendo until V6. Since then quite a few of his G2F and G2M clothing has made the hot list. Also the vendors did V4/Genesis characters using the V4 shape, not V4/V5. But those releases were less and done by a few vendors, much more vendors have came on board for Genesis 2.

    I did check the What's Hot page, and you're right - there are three G2F items there as of this writing. (I don't think I've ever actually visited the What's Hot page before, so I'll take your word that this sort of thing never happened with G1.) I do sort of feel compelled to point out that two of them are articles of lingerie, and the other one is a set of pinup poses. I'm not surprised these things sell well, but I'm also not sure I'm entirely sanguine about what that implies about the greater Poser/DS community...

    Which I guess is the crux of my problem with G2. In short - what's best for business, isn't necessarily what's best for the community.

    If you checked what's new, 5 more genesis 2 products entered the store today; I'm sure the OOT male item will hit the hot list. HFS did an outfit extremely close to the Mass Effect video game character and that's for genesis one.. G1 can be more suited for creatures than G2, though it could be for the G2 Female since it's marketed as a female suit.

    Also what you see in the hot list is what the community in general wants, which would be lingerie. ;)

    Post edited by Male-M3dia on
  • Cenobite451Cenobite451 Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    Barubary said:
    Cenobite451 said:

    Which I guess is the crux of my problem with G2. In short - what's best for business, isn't necessarily what's best for the community.

    Since you seem to know, what would be best for the community?

    Hell if I know. But the current paradigm damn sure isn't it.

    In my opinion, the unisex G1 did a better job of fostering creativity than the gender-split figures. What we're getting for G2 (mostly G2F) largely consists of 9000 kinds of slutwear, shot through with the occasional gem like the Wildenlander. Unfortunately, said gems tend to be male-only, even when the costume design itself is essentially unisex. Hence this thread.

    (Granted, G1 got a hell of a lot of slutwear as well. But the proportion didn't seem quite as overwhelming. And all the nifty more-or-less unisex gear worked quite well for both genders, straight out of the proverbial box.)

  • HeraHera Posts: 1,957
    edited May 2014

    Cenobite451 said:
    [In my opinion, the unisex G1 did a better job of fostering creativity than the gender-split figures. What we're getting for G2 (mostly G2F) largely consists of 9000 kinds of slutwear, shot through with the occasional gem like the Wildenlander. Unfortunately, said gems tend to be male-only, even when the costume design itself is essentially unisex.

    I agree - partly. I don't care much for the proverbial slutwear. So I don't buy it. End of story. On the other hand I've seen a lot of great stuff for both genders when it comes to the G2 population. Zackariah, XTech, Elven Grove outfit, just to mention a few of the latest. But what frustrates me is that there are so many things which come one gender only which could as well have been made for both of them. Like the Robot Armor and Wondrous Creatures which are only available for the girls (I mean really, why having a deamoness without a companion?) as well as said Wildenlander outfit being only for the boys. I'm not into rendering Conchita Wurst, but I'd really love to have more of the outfits fit for both genders, at least those who might as well be unisex to start with, like nano-suits or warrior's uniforms. OK I can tweak them, but there's always some awkward parts nevertheless.

    Post edited by Hera on
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