Skin Builder 8 for Genesis 8 Male
andreretogasser
Posts: 256
Dear 3d artists, first of all many thanks for the good work.
Skin Builder 8 for Genesis 8 Female is a very useful product. Why isn't there one for men? I would have used it 100 times this year, which means that I would have bought it a hundred times ....
Post edited by Chohole on
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Apparently there isn't one for men because it wouldn't sell enough to recoup the development time.
On the surface (no pun intended), that seems like a little bit of a cop-out, but I don’t know what’s going on under the hood of Skin Builder, so I don’t know exactly how much work would be required to make it compatible with male figures.
that's really a shame - especially when you consider that a large part of the work has already been done. I am in no way an expert but I think a lot could be taken directly from the product for women ...
A male version could probably reuse a good part of the code from the female version for the scripts, but all the base maps and overlays would have to be redone for males, even if it used the same types of options. For one thing UVs are not the same, but it would not just require converting them to the male UVs: base skins would have to be different as the current ones include basic female genitalia, anatomical elements textures would of course be too, things like tan lines or makeup would probably not be the same as the female ones either, and so on.
So there's actually quite a lot of work involved (For the record, I just checked, there are around 450 texture files provided with SB for G8F)
And all that is assuming you want the same kind of options for the male version and not things like facial hair instead of blush for example, which would mean changing the UI to handle the new options.
I doubt that compatibility would be the main problem. The scripting should be very similar. The issue is that people expect different things with the skins of male characters vs the skins of female characters, and if making skins for male characters isn't your thing, then that's a lot of time spent learning and trial and error that could be spent on projects which have a better payoff.
If you check out @Zev0 's commercial threads, you will see that he's already got a lot on his plate.
I can no longer have a say in this, I don't know enough about it. Neanderthal user.......
For the record, I'd definitely buy a male version, even though I don't use male figures much. Unfortunately I don't think it will happen.
I'm surprised Zev0 hasn't made one for the the guys. I'd sure like him to make Skin Builder G8M. I'd buy it in a heart beat. It can't be that hard. I bet he could reuse alot of the code and interface arrange in G8F.
Totally agree except for the "it can't be that hard" bit lol because I'm sure it might be rather hard!
i would throw my money at Zev until he begged me to stop if he made Skin Builder for G8M! However, It's a huge product and, more so, just take one look at the Skin Builder for G8 Female thread and you'll see the huge amount of customer support Zev is still kindly giving people almost every day, and it's coming up on 2 years after its release! I can imagine the idea of adding to that with a G8M product doesn't fill him with joy, lol.
As already mentioned, there's way more to it than simply the script and UI parts.
It's funny, Kyocera Wireless was given a working prototype of a Smart Phone from Qualcomm, and they dropped it because "it wouldn't sell enough to recoup the development time" years before that other company realized it might.
Except that Zev0 sells many products for male and female figures and has a pretty good idea of how much each of them sells, especially the various versions of Skin Builder for Genesis females.
For the record, on average here male products sell 2 to 3 times less copies compared to their female equivalents.
I wish the customer base was more into male content.
First, I want to emphasize that this comment is not intended to denounce or insult anyone.
Look, I earn my income by writing (let me reassure you - it's not in English). For a long time, I made very good money by writing boring letters and reports for even more boring people - first for a police department, later for a government. At some point I realized that I was wasting my time and my life. Since then I've been writing scenarios and YES, I no longer make good money! It is a fact that the quality of my life is better - at least that's how I feel - despite the cheaper apartment and stuff. Because today I write things I want to write. Because I am proud that I do it well and some people understand and appreciate it.
Now, I think I am well placed to understand quite well that an artist has to consider his income.... But if you really see yourself as an artist, there must be more important criteria for your work than the thought what sells well and how much money the effort brings in!
No offense, just sayin!
It is a bit of a circle here.
Female content is easier to get with so much bigger choice, hence people buy more female content, making everyone think that make content doesn't sell all that well.
It's not just that female products sell more as a whole, individual products for females sell more copies than individual products for males. That has been particularly observed by PAs who sell matching items for both male and female, like for example utilities with versions for both.
Well, from my point of view, even though I do want to create more scenes with males, I cannot find the male equivalents for many female products, limiting me to mostly use female figures.
The assumption being that creating content for male 3D characters intrinsically feeds the soul more than creating content for female 3D characters. If there is any data to back that up assumption, I'd be all ears.
I don't think anyone should be guilted into making content that not only provides them no greater satisfaction, but also reduces their income. There's something to be said for feeding, clothing and housing yourself and your family.
If I have a choice between making a cool shirt for G8M and a cool shirt for G8F... all things being equal, I'll make it for G8F. Validation is nice, but it's very validating to get more money (and pay off more bills).
THAT SAID there are always exceptions, and people clearly do buck the trend sometimes. We do, in fact, have a fair amount of male content. And some people find, in certain niches, it will be more even, or even male sells better.
It's a valid point, but if you are creating to pay the bills, you become less of an artist and more of a PA. Along the same lines though, maybe as a PA they have no interest in creating clothing for one specific gender or the other. If I was a PA I would get much more satisfaction creating for a female figure than a male figure.
The main goal to fix all of this is to get more users into Daz Studio. With a bigger customer base, PAs can focus more on creating what they want over what actually sales more.
Catch 22.
No, it isn't.
But people never believe the vendors.
And I've seen some stuff put up for sale for G8M that I wouldn't want to download it it was free.
Frankly, the demand for Skin Builder is insane and while yes, they'd have to make some maps, the core plugin is done. All the hardest work is complete. All they'd need to do is make the male maps and change the branding and it would probably be one of the best selling assets for G8M period.
Your premise only works if
1) the hard work was making the core and not the maps; the product creator has said otherwise,
2) it is worth it for the creator to make 350 odd maps of male textures; the product creator has said otherwise,
and, 3) the economics make it all worthwhile economically since male products tend to self 1/2 or 1/3 of the female counterparts; the product creator has said otherwise. I am not sure the female product was so profitable that it is worth the effort. I think it would be more convincing if you presented actual sales numbers and estimates of the work hours needed if you want to argue that the person who actually did the work is incorrect.
Many vendors do this for their livelihood. They go by what the marketplace dictates. They're not motivated by validation from a vocal few on the forums.
You might want to read this article by Sickleyield for context.
Why It's All Skimpwear.
I know. The simple fact is, no matter how hard Daz might stick their fingers in their ears and pretend otherwise, Daz, much like the internet, is for Porn.
Or at least cheescake. Either way skimpy girl pics are the rule of the day.
I never thought that my question would go this way .....
If you Google "skin builder male", you see this sort of question to always goes this way. I suspect that Zev0 has loads of experience making products both for the male and female figures and that this would be a project that would require way too much work for such little payoff.
Also, people who insist that something will be a huge seller, that there's a lot of demand for something, or that something would be easy to make, pretty consistently don't know what they're talking about and aren't basing those statements on facts or experience.
Where did you get that from exactly? Because a few posts from time to time in forums where only a tiny fraction of the customer base post is very far from "insane demand", no matter how vocal those few posters are.