My wish: Genesis 3! (please read before shaking head)
XoechZ
Posts: 1,102
Hello!
As the title says, my wish is a Genesis 3 figure.
But wait a second, NO "Generation 7" figure, definitely NOT!
Genesis 3 should simply be Genesis 1 + 2, which makes 3 :-)
That means, a figure that combines everything that Genesis 1 and Genesis 2 (M and F) have to offer, and that lets you use everything (morphs, clothes, shoes, textures, skins...) that has ever been made and ever will be made for the Genesis 1 and 2 generations on that one single figure without any limitaions and problems.
I know that this is a dream that will never come true, but it would make everything so easy. And you do not have to install tons of products that make them compatible in some ways, but not all ways (there are still a lot of restrictions and limitations).
I would pay a lot of money for such a universal figure :-)
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Comments
Well, considering Genesis 1 and 2 don't use the same mesh there's just no way you could have one single figure that would use all their morphs without a convertor like GenX....
agree; that would be great... even when it is really full combatible with 4. and 3. Generation Items.
This figure need something like a universal converter for the Items and morphs that is already build in the new figure and do all the work an additional plug in would do
I would like that. Gen 2 males have never been up to snuff for me with the faces. The bodies are good, but genesis handled the heads better I thought since a wider variety of shapes were available.
Doubt DAZ will return to the single mesh Genesis format. They tried it and for various reasons I've heard over the past year, it just didn't work as well as they expected it to.
So, it was back to the gender split. Seems like there has been more produced for the Genesis 2 line in a little over a year than in the 2 or so years Genesis was at the top. And I don't just mean products sold here at DAZ.
I at first was skeptical when G2F/G2M came out. My first products for G2F were the Perfect 10 pose sets, which is fairly intimate work. It took about one half of one day to fall in love with the fantastic improvements! A bit later, while working on the Lofn product, I found the change superb when making items over the mesh it was intended to fit. (I have a ton of stuff on my hard drive that were done on Genesis... the learning process)
Perhaps a best example is something that fits over the female breasts. Trying to do that on a male figure requires a lot of guesswork. Then you are left with UV mapping that is too small in the wrong areas and suddenly on a lot of textures there is obvious warping. Think of a woman wearing a tight fitting man's spandex shirt with vertical striping! Yuck! Well, maybe this might look really good on some females?
To me, there is good reason for Men's Departments and Women's Departments in 'Real Clothing Stores'. Most 'one size fits all' items in real life don't fit that great. How many women wear men's jeans? How many men wear women's jeans? You can say that it is 'easier' for PAs to make clothing for the new figures, but I think it really should be stated as it allows for better products. The world of 3D is improving rapidly, mostly due to processing power of our computers. I'm enjoying what has been done and looking forward to even more realism in the future. :)
All of that said, I have had decent success with using the included 'fit to' to interchange G2M and G2F items.
If Genesis 2 had an androgynous base mesh which you could use for making morphs which would then transfer to both G2M and G2F the same way they do for Genesis 1 then I'd start using Genesis 2. I'd be able to make gender specific clothes when needed and be able to create figure morphs without having to do all the work over again when I wanted to make it male or female.
While Genesis 2 may be handy for clothes makers it's a pain in the ass for morphs. Although it does have the benefit for morph makers because now they get to sell the exact same morph twice. Not to mention that Genesis 2 comes with absolutely nothing in the way of universal morphs so it's pretty much useless unless you buy a bunch of morphs.
I think that's the real reason Daz has gone with Genesis 2 and is scrapping Genesis 1. The ability to sell more morphs and sell the same products twice, once for male and once for female. I think that more than anything else is why they won't go with a universal morphing system in Genesis 3.
And that's pretty much why I only support Genesis 1.
Both G2F and G2M have an "androgynous" FBM in their body morph pack.
i like using gn1 for high elves and fey, and g2m/f for full Humans.
hoping for a male couterpart to Giselle bfor going g2 fey.
I'm Agree with you, that could be a great idea :)
Actually, if I recall correctly, MallenLane said that G2F & G2M are updated versions of the G1 mesh. The only difference between them is different rigging and higher polygon count, allowing each gender-specific figure to handle higher detail technology (like the HD add-ons).
THIS, is why they had to differ away from G1's unisex technology, G1's weight mapping and rigging was too general, so finer detail was highly compromised. At first I didn't understand this, but now that I work with all three figures, I can see the distinct differences.
Though, I will say, in all honesty, that the only reason that I'm cool with G2 now is because of support like that from Katey's tutorials, Zev0's morph sets, SickleYeild's Auto-fit add-ons, Slosh's Legacy Shapes and UVs and Dimension3D's GenX... It still had to take MallenLane and Slosh's generosity for us just to have continued V4 & M4 support for the G2 figures...
I still don't understand why DAZ has never released a version of Genesis that is native Poser (9/10/2012/2014)... or just call her Victoria 6 for Poser.
At this point, I've come to see the gender split in the Genesis 2 figures as a neccisary evil.
Would I be happier if it were still a base unisex figure? Of course.
Do I understand why vendors (and many artists) prefer the split? Yes.
With Auto-fit and all the assorted add ons and modifiers for both Genesis 1 and Genesis 2, I can (mostly) use the figure that will best suit the need of the art, rather than figuring out which figures I have the "right" stuff for the art for. (Though G2F could use some more long flowy fantasy stuff, rather than the short, skimpy fantasy stuff.)
Tech marches on, and I'd rather keep pace than try to catch up.
With a certain other figure going that route you are getting e.g. clothing and morphs that do not work in DAZ Studio at all. I certainly would not like to see that - from my point of view that experiment failed. Had been bad enough for DAZ Studio users with V4 to be honest.
If I remember well, G2F and G2M use the same base mesh BUT not the same weight-map.
that's why there is Genesis 2 Cross-Figure Resource Kit
I hope G3M fixes the messed up chest.
DS uses the proprietary Triax weight mapping. Poser uses the more generic vertex weight mapping. Similar is some respects, different in others.
It's fairly easy to port the base mesh from DS to Poser. That's essentially what HW3D did. After modeling, they took the mesh into DS and then ported to Poser. Only problem is, you get a load of internal errors that need to be cleaned up for the figure to work properly. Something they didn't do. Before anyone gets upset, I'm not finger pointing or blaming DAZ or DS for the internal errors. I put it down to two different apps having a communication problem.
If we only had to deal with the base mesh, it wouldn't be all that big a problem. But it isn't. Every morph set, every item of conforming clothing, every hair conformer requires the two separate items. One for DS and one for Poser. Again, you can do the work in DS and port to Poser but you still end up with internal errors.
DAZ opted for the best compromise they could come up with. The DSON importer. They're trying. It's a pretty good bet they have been watching to see if offering two separate sets of products for two separate apps proves to be viable.
It's a pretty good bet it won't happen. If you been watching Dawn, you'll see the issues of customers getting content for their platform. Anytime the burden falls to the vendors to work twice for a single profit, it's a safe bet dual support isn't going to happen. This why the DSON spec was created. This question comes up so many times, but the answer is always the same,
Hmmm... Interesting idea, but as has been pointed out in several earlier replies, it's an idea that was tried and abandoned. One mesh, everything in one ball of wax, has issues. :-(
In fact, if you think about it, biology itself tried it and abandoned the idea. For billions of years there was the basic cell, one mesh (body type) and life was stuck in a very slow rut. But then diversification came along and zip, pow that led to sex, and life blossomed like never before and everybody was happy except for the amoebas, who, without a brain still just ooze along fat, dumb, and unable to appreciate "happy". 8-0
It's a pretty good bet it won't happen. If you been watching Dawn, you'll see the issues of customers getting content for their platform. Anytime the burden falls to the vendors to work twice for a single profit, it's a safe bet dual support isn't going to happen. This why the DSON spec was created. This question comes up so many times, but the answer is always the same,
I agree with you. I don't see it being viable for DAZ. The concept is good but the execution is another matter entirely. Especially in when you get into the area of humans and everything that goes with them. I found porting the Horse 2 to Poser was a better choice for me rather than go the DSON route. But that's what works for me. It won't work for everyone.
Yes, the question comes up and the answer is always the same. Problem is, they keep asking in the hopes they will get a different answer.
I don't see a need for a G3 for that. The more likely scenario would be an update to G2 to handle stuff like that.
better transfer tools the answer maybe a collaboration by Daz with Evilinoccence and their Crossdresser system as a plugin integrated with the transfer utility.
It doesn't have to be an effort to mirror Genesis and it doesn't have to be named Victoria.... I just think DAZ could create a new figure for the later versions of Poser.... with a Pro bundle that includes morphs and gens etc..... and see what happens. I think DAWN would have done better if they had released a more complete set of morphs with her.
I don't see a need for a G3 for that. The more likely scenario would be an update to G2 to handle stuff like that.
I honestly don't see Daz making an effort to do that, especially on a male figure.
Maybe there would be a better development if there would be more competition. But in the current situation we have 2 applications and basically 2 big markets. There is Poser on one side and DAZ Studio on the other side. And we have the "old" geneation of figures (V3, V4) and the new Genesis (1+2), both developed by the DAZ team. So they can do whatever they want and I see no changes to that on the horizon until there is a real competition.
DAZ is really a small company with limited resources; splitting theses resources isn't viable, because the vendors are still handling the burden of support.
I don't think it's a competition between companies; but DAZ is a content company and they have been developing their products, such as auto fit and HD, and the DSON importer. But those advancements are done because they only have one product line to support. I don't think there aren't any viable reasons to make an additional line that doesn't do the same thing. That's why DSON was created so at least both platforms can have most of the same features.
Hm, my thoughts went in a different direction. All the base figures we use were developed by DAZ, same for DAZ Studio. So the DAZ team has it in their hands in which direction to develop and how fast. Will there be a Genesis 3? What features will it have? Well, it really does not matter because there are no competing products on the market. We will have to take whatever DAZ will give us. Same for DAZ Studio 5.
But if other companies would develop 3D applications for rendering and content for it, then DAZ would loose its monopoly position and the customers would get faster and better development on this sector.
First off, neither the Generation 5 or 6 Pro Bundles come with the head and body morph packages. They come with some character morphs but not the morph packs. Those are a separate purchase. The V5 and M5 Pro Suites had them at a significantly higher price tag.
Creating a new figure is not done in a matter of days or even weeks. You can't even begin to have vendors start to create textures, clothing and props for the figure until it is done or nearly done. I don't know how the figures are handled in-house but if it's in any way how in-house figure creation and what not is handled where I work, it's a major production in and of itself. Buyers get used to seeing the DAZ name on items and calling them DAZ Originals but in truth they are buy outs. Vendors create them and DAZ buys the product and the copyright to it. Not an inexpensive proposition when you get down to it.
DAZ is a business. They don't make things and release them to see what happens.
HW3D is a different company. What they do and how they do it is up to them.
...I would rather see the body/head morphs included in the starter bundle instead of just more character, hair, poses, and clothing content (of the four only the poses and hair I usually find useful). After all these are DOs just like the base figure.