Is it proper that I market myself as a 3D illustrator or animator?
Joepingleton
Posts: 746
Is it proper for someone who uses DAZ products to market themselves as a 3D illustrator or animator?
I have been on a quest to create a 3d image or animation per day for the last year and just reached my initial goal. This was just a hobby I did in my spare time. The only guidelines where that I only spend a few hours and that I create them on what ever comes to mind. A friend suggested that I try to market myself as a 3d illustrator or animator based on those results. I redesigned my website with this goal in mind [ http://www.joepingleton.com ]
I posted a link to my site on "LinkedIn" to get some feedback on my work. I got a reply from another 3D illustrator and animator frustrated with me for calling myself a 3D illustrator or animator, because I purchased my models from DAZ and used DAZ software. His point is that using a package that provides you with 90% of the real work done already by someone else means I shouldn't market myself that way.
I am a DAZ user and have bought most of the 3D assets. They provided me with a quick way to create 3d images since I am not a good modeler. I was thinking that I could pass that time saving along to my customers. That way people with smaller budgets could get high budget looking projects. A lot of my clients use clip art and stock photos because there budgets are small and the deadlines are tight.
I learned a lot doing these experiments. I learned how to use the tools to get the characters to look different than the base products by experimenting with custom materials, lighting and basic modeling. I also got experience in applying free and custom motion capture of myself to create animations quickly. Additionally I learned to create simple lip sync using a range of tools that are not standard with these products.
I didn't realize that would offend people. I see the point as it is like someone that uses clip art isn't technically an illustrator or someone using stock photos isn't a photographer. Maybe I need to keep this as a hobby and leave it at that.
Am I deluding myself thinking of myself as a 3d Illustrator and animator?
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Comments
Market yourself as whatever the hell you want.
You make animations and illustrations then you're an animator and an illustrator. It's the results that matter not how you get there.
Thanks ghastlycomic,
That's what I thought, but now I am worried people in the industry won't take me seriously. Maybe I am just taking one comment with too much weight. =)
Hi Joe!
I just checked out your website and wanted to let you know that in my opinion, you're not only an animator/illustrator, but a good one to boot!
The person who contacted you is just upset that he has to compete with you for business.
Keep up the good work!
~B.
Thanks for the very kind words.
I definitely will keep at it, as there is so much more to learn. :)
Haters gonna hate.
You're as much an artist as the people working in collage are artists - there are those who think collage isn't an art form, too.
This is an ongoing debate on DA. "Is what we do considered art" A bunch of BS if you ask me.
Love to see that other person's website- they're probably surfing into yours to learn how to do one, lol!
Seriously though, I can't give a comment regarding theirs, as I don't know their background. To THEM, if they are a high end modeler, texturer, the entire package type person, they probably will dislike the "already done" aspect of DAZ and other sites. But it's just their opinion, and these products are made to USE.
Respond with these three words.
"GET OVER IT."
Thanks the feedback.
I need (and appreciate) the blunt feedback to show me the realities of the business. Art is so subjective that you really can't label it.
I was just wondering what the industry thought. Maybe I am jumping the gun by focusing my business marketing on this type of work at my current skill level.
Basically, using pre-made art assets just makes it a collaborative piece of work (with the original artists) and therefore makes it no less of a 3D illustration than any other - there's no rule that says an illustration can't have more than one contributing artist. You just already paid those artists for their contribution. You're combining your knowledge, art skills, and style, to make art that is uniquely you. And you're doing so fantastically. :-)
The thing you have to remember is that he's your competition. Sometimes there's comradery between competitors, but sadly not always. The person who emailed you is not only a competitor in the same market, it sounds like he's not getting much work since he seems to have a lot of free time on his hands.
One more thing to consider - It's not about what competing artists think, it's about whether your client is happy with your work. They just want a nice product that they can legally use, that's what you're giving them.
...very nice work. Never ever base how you see yourself on others. People will prejudice this and that to makje themselves feel better. Who made them the judge and jury?
ONLY thing that matters is what you ad your clients think. You`ve made great strides s keep going.
I don't get why people get so flustered over using pre-made content. There's no difference between using pre-made content, and working for a company with separate modeling and animation departments.
Thanks for the feedback and encouragement
Maybe it's just insecurity on my part as my current clients couldn't care less about my 3d art. =)
We are funny creatures, always so ready to think the worst about ourselves....always with a short memory for good things and a long memory for the bad. Remind yourself often and don't let the storms reach to your heart. :)
Great words to remember.
I sees a distinction between graphic arts and artist. graphic artist gets the job done. artist expresses, by any means necessary :)
Good Point
Very professional site. I certainly consider you an artist! And as long as your customers are happy, what do you care what some whiner thinks?
Customers should rightly be concerned about intellectual rights, so you may need to certify to them that you have a license to use the models--you might want to include something to that effect in any agreement you have with them. I don't know that you need to get down to the level of listing the models you use for a piece of art in your agreement, but you might want to keep track for your own records, in case it ever comes up.
Thanks for the advice
I was concerned as I just started marketing the services and didn't know what the industry thought. It could be that I don't understand the audience, because there are 3d generalist, modelers, animators, ect. and I was just considering the services like I handle graphic design.
I hadn't even considered the licensing issues for illustrations and animation. I knew there would be fees if they where used in a game. Is there fees to use them in artwork. (He asks nervously)
No, you can use them in personal and commercial renders according to the terms of the Daz license, so you are golden. My point was that if it comes up, you need to reassure the customers that you are using stuff you are licensed to use.
Cool, I'll have to think about adding that to my estimates
I'll be honest, I personally don't like to consider myself a "3D artist" because I use pre-made/purchased content. I prefer to call myself an "assembler", although that just makes people think I build stuff or work in a factory. ;)
I still think a good final image should be how any 3D render is ultimately judged, but I kind of understand why 'elite' 3D artists look down on Poser and Studio art. If you spent a lot of time practicing and eventually finishing a difficult video game and then someone else came along and used a cheat code to breeze through it, you probably would feel like that other person shouldn't be able to say he legitimately finished it. I think that's the basic idea of why it bothers them; they feel like we're 'cheating' and not skilled enough to be considered on their level as "3D artists". It's easy for all of us to dismiss it as jealousy or elitism, but being limited to using whatever 3D products I purchase has actually bothered me for a very long time.
I wouldn't worry about what one person says, but just be aware that professional modelers and animators are highly unlikely to consider you an equal as long as you use pre-made content. That's a whole different business though, and by using DAZ content and your own creativity, you can offer your clients much better prices than any of them could.
Your site looks good and I hope you're successful!
SnowS
Well put SnowSultan,
I didn't mean to imply that I thought the initial reply to my post was wrong or being elitist. It's seems to be the brutal truth.
I agree that calling myself a 3d illustrator may not be the right way to market my work and I can see people not liking it. It kind of slights the effort of the great people at DAZ who create the models we use. They are the real stars of what we do and without them I wouldn't be able to create what I create. We seem to be in a new Renaissance of art now. Companies like DAZ have made high quality results available to everyone. Just look at all the great work everyone here on these forums are creating, there is nothing that makes my work stand out.
Also it's a wake up call to transitioning from personal work to working in the industry. If we don't bring anything unique to the table in a real world production environment, then there are many skilled individuals that can. Another responder (he was the head of a CGI firm) on LinkedIn was very encouraging to me to keep learning, but also stated I need to improve to be considered for a job with them. Since they don't use DAZ Studio or Carrara, I would be like any other applicant with out any practical experience in the software that they actually use. And there tons of those.
I also see this with my current clients. They couldn't care less about my 3D work. Most are large corporations that I do website, FLASH and After Effects work. This is mainly stock photos and clip art artwork because of time and budget. Or they have in house designers and they only need me for programming work. Flash is pretty much dead except for e-learning applications. That's why I was hoping 3D would pick up the slack. The market for low to mid-level 3d work seems very scarce. Price doesn't seem to be the issue. I am unsure what I need to do to take the next step. Plus the people who do need the work aren't interested in images of dragons, cute girls and aliens, no matter how fun they are to create.
Thanks for the feedback.
Does a photographer grind his/her own lenses? Do they style the models hair and apply makeup themselves? Do they cut and stitch every item of clothing? No. You get my point...
I like to think of what we do as "virtual photography". As long as you're not actively deceiving clients that you are a modeler (only at mater of time doing so before that would would bite you in the ass anyway), then I don't see any problem. It's your vision. The software's just a tool, and you'll have haters no matter what. Just have a read of some of Daz's user stories: http://www.daz3d.com/explore/user-stories/explore-shannon-maer
Good points Atticus
I always tried to look at it that way too. We are closer to photographers than painters. I spent several years as a photo-retoucher and use those skills in my 3d artwork. So there is also some painter skills required. :)
Maybe I need to be more clear on my site that I use pre-made content. I am very upfront about it when I communicate directly.
The daz user stories are very inspiring, and clear examples that I have a lot more to learn.
...I've been at this for about seven years now and wish I had a portfolio like yours to show.
As to those who look down on us, it has been going on for years and probably will continue to do so. You can't let them get you down. I did once and it was a big mistake.
Recently I made a presentation of my work in front of a group of graphics professionals and told them up front what they were about to see was done without any of the top end pro grade software. They were very impressed and I was extremely and pleasantly surprised. They were also quite impressed that I had taught (and am continuing to teach) myself not only the software, but working with the different concepts involved (most of which are pretty much the same whether you are using Daz Studio, Poser, Carrara, or 3DS Max).
After seeing my work a couple fo the mentioned that that I would fit in very well in character design (something I spend a lot of time on) for animation and/or games. On top of that, a couple of them said they were going to talk with other associates they knew in the field to try and get me interviews.
Would be really nice if I could do something creative for a change.
All I can say is what others her have already done, Keep doing what you are doing, and don't let others discourage you.
Thanks for the inspirational advice and the best of luck on the interviews :)
Maybe its my limited view of the world, but I think a lot of the stigma arises from how easy the software is to pick up and use. It means that a lot more people get on board and use it, but it also means that many of those users won't know how to get the best effect out of it, so the end results vary quite widely in quality.
Travel back in time a few years and the typical 'Poser nude' was about as attractive as a toilets U-Bend after a particularly vicious chilli. Because they were so rife, it coloured a lot of opinions against the software in general. Recently though, there have been some incredible works arising from the Daz and Poser community, some of which breathtakingly lifelike. It may take a while to shake off the shackles of its early origins, but there's plenty of evidence to show off what true artists can do with it.
Incidentally, your work is pretty impressive as well. You've got a great portfolio on the website, so I don't think you have anything to worry about. I'd even commission you myself!
that's it
art has nothing to do with being complicated or easy
In the end, with every artist it all boils down to the "style" of their final art.
For all the different types of artists out there, there will be people who like and appreciate there style, and there will be those who dont.
Those who dont will always find countless reasons for why they dont like it. But that doesnt matter, because you are obviously not making art for them anyway.
Think about how much flack "expressionists" must have originally had, or even "abstract" artists when they first came on the scene.....heck, even now those styles still take abuse.
Even changes in medium has produced controversy, working with acrylics was like "kids paints" to traditional oil painters, and computer art in general is considered lesser of a medium by traditional painters.
So just work your style in the medium of your choice, and foster those people who can appreciate your art and not worry about those who do not. As long as you have more who do appreciate it, then you are doing well.
I personally wouldnt even bother mentioning what software you use...because in the end it is your art that you are selling, not the software that made it. If someone is sincerely interested, then by all means tell them if you want....but that is entirely up to you if you decide to share your process.
Rawn
Hi Joe, I'm a cranky old fart that speaks his mind so you may not like what I say. Your still images are very good but your videos lack polish. For instance the space craft is moving through a hazy atmosphere but doesn't disrupt that atmosphere at all. Or take the 'furbies', there is no movement to their hair. These are the things a professional working with high end (and expensive) software could have and most likely would have done.