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yeah i know but even that, the texture make then look to old, i means too much wrinkles, it's feels like they only scanned peoples which not a "young" skin" or somehow during the capture it become "too detailed" even the young peoples do looks like they skin don't looks smooth as it was supposed to look at last in average while we do have young peoples which too much wrinkles and stuffs like that you have peoples with a smooth skin too but somehow the scanned peoples don't look like that, as i told it's feel they choose only too specific peoples, let me put on that while overal characters in daz specially female looks like victorian secret models with super perfect body(still realistic) the meta human goes to the other side and get the most "not perfect body" and most possible in they eyes realistic human, which to be fair it really don't exist since you can find peoples of all bodies and skin types in the world making almost impossible to have a "type of person which you can call "realistic", the only non realistic peoples would really be fiction but in real life you can find peoples of all types but in meta human i only saw too complex skins.
Another thing which i realised, i was which i was a lot worried about the characters texture in daz because of the complexity, in daz only the eyes are considered too complex, skin is pretty "simple" but metam human when i changed the view to see the complexity texture it was red nightmare making the character full complex and high demanding in textures, indeed those characters are really for high ending.
Agreed. That said, I see much potential here, but mainly for Daz to improve tremendously, not vanish into thin air. How anyone could even draw that conclusion from this doesn't compute, but then again, some here chase doom-and-gloom for whatever reason. If anything, this will be a nice little subsitute from DAZ here and there, but DAZ will remain my go-to program for character content/creation.
I recently started using Unreal and in my opinion metahumans existence does not affect Daz Studio users or the average Daz3d consumers.
There are almost no clothing available at the moment, and most users cannot create their own 3d meshes to use with the character. There is not enough content for you to create a complex or simple render scene.
Also, Unreal is easy to use but not as easy as Daz Studio. You need to spend some time learning the basics of the engine to setup a scene, while in daz studio you can do everything with few clicks as soon as you launch the program. Of course, with time you improve your renders, but getting started with Daz Studio is super easy. On the other hand, to use Unreal, you will need to watch a training course or at least spend some hours watching youtube tutorials to get started.
I noticed in the daz to unreal discord channel that most users are not willing to make any effort to learn Unreal. They want to use Unreal the same way they use Daz Studio and this is not possible. In other words, I don't think metahumans are enough to make the average hobbyist move to Unreal Engine.
At the moment, you can only create metahumans that look like real contemporary people. If you want to create fantasy character or toons you will have no options, while with daz studio you can create any type of figure with the right assets.
I also noted that daz assets looks as good as meta-humans with proper shading while giving much more freedom to customize. What you don't get is auto lod, auto lod material, rig to epics skeleton, hair grooming and other optimization features for gaming. Those extra features of meta-human mean nothing for the average Daz user.
Another thing is that unless epic really commits to pleasing the average person, you can't expect the marketplace to fill the gap. The quality of the assets available at daz store is much better and cheaper than the ones you find in the unreal marketplace. I get a lot more for my bucks here.
I'm only worried about the daz user who want to start using unreal like me with daz assets. I'm already committed to genesis 8 because I build a library over the years, and I do want them to keep expanding their support for unreal engine.
I just hope they keep doing what they were doing and the release of the meta-human does not change their focus.
Skin tone is a little bit of personal preference, but in my opinion, both figures look really good.
lol i didn't know which daz to unreal bridge had a "discord", it's new for me
well about the part with quality x price, while i do agree about "daz being cheaper" in most cases, in some cases like animations unreal is mile ahead more cheap, when comes to "quality this is more based on the content, for exemple for characters i would say daz get a little ahead of unreal, since the unreal characters are optmized for game and in many cases to be used in mobiles, it's make many unreal market characters low quality compared with daz, you have some artists here and there like this one:
https://www.unrealengine.com/marketplace/en-US/profile/Andryuha1981?count=20&sortBy=effectiveDate&sortDir=DESC&start=0
wich do make awesome characters but overal most of the unreal characters going from low to middle quality compared with daz without any doubts daz can easy get the high ground, but when comes to props or ambients, i really can say which unreal can get high ground even with the stuffs not being high poly as some daz props, the props again for unreal are optmized for game they still a lot high quality in many cases on par with many high poly stuffs on daz, the thing is which they use a lot of material effects like tesselation and normal maps to count for the reduced poly count which give almost the same result as a high poly object in many cases, the only difference is if you doo a big zoom on the details and even withat, which the incoming unreal 5 and the new nanimite really high ending games gonna be able to use high poly stuffs in the scene which will make a huge game change for peoples want to render.
Another point which i do like more unreal market than daz is when comes to "free stuffs", they are really free, i means if you are trying to go for "use outside daz" or render you still have to pay the "licenses" for daz while unreal if something is "free" it's really free, you don't have to pay if its game or render, it's free, the only exception is some "epic exclusive" free stuffs, which are only free aslong you use with unreal engine, if you try to use "outside unreal" then you have to pay some stuffs, but since you can render, animate or make game all inside unreal basically almost everything (probably even make programs) then no issue it's free, another problem is the 'quality" of the free stuffs, daz normally give you as free stuffs only really old stuffs, like v4 or old stuffs, some g1 stuffs and in really rare cases g2 to g3 and in even more rare cases of special sales you get 1 g8 stuff, for daz pc members you get some extra free stuffs but those stuffs are normally "props" you don't get stuffs like outfits or characters for free in the platinum membership, and you end getting a lot of repeat old stuffs in the generic free stuffs, which means at one point you ending taking a long time to ge more free stuffs, where in unreal you get at last 5 free stuffs each month, without count the permanent free, the epic only stuffs, also stuffs like mega scan and bla bla bla and on those stuffs, while sometimes you get bad stuffs another you get really good like characters or animations and good props, even really high expensive stuffs already become "free" in unreal, you can easy get a huge free library of good quality stuffs in unreal market where in daz normally you get stuffs from "average" to low or cheap and old stuffs(none animations).
each market have they strength for me.
I disagree because even high-end computers can't deal with what MetaHuman has to offer at full detail. The same is true for what Daz has to offer but Daz is primarily used for still renders, whereas MetaHumans need to be integrated in a framework that must run at 30+ fps otherwise their value is void. What MetaHumans are for is to create a rough and quick mock-up of a realistic character which will later be optimized to fit whatever project is being developed. This is what the MetaHuman devs have said in interviews: MetaHuman is to be used as a starting point and not as a final product. Quite frankly it is a godsend for indy game studios but for Daz's customer base it doesn't offer nearly the same value.
this is why i feel which epic is betting on unreal 5, nanites and "more advanced SSDs" instead of old hds, they are betting in the next generation to have "high poly stuffs" and let the SSD speed handle it.
I have agtx 1080ti, 32gig of ram and an 7 3770k. Not really high end. but I can run metahuman characters as 3rd person character no problem. The cloud creator is still in beta so no where near the final product as far as tools go. But as long as its only for creating humans, Daz will still have a place in the hig end field with their aliens, animals etc..As long as they get their finger out and make the bridges work seamlessly. Have animations for everything...Not just still poses. Otherwize they will be trapped in the hobby market forever.
I'm not sure where this statement is coming from. Maybe you should define "high-end" computer. There are examples all over the internet of people doing interesting things with their MetaHumans. Also, remember this is just a preview and not the final product. It will get more optimized as the technology matures. Rest assured, there is a LOT more coming.
MetaHuman Creator is web based so all you need is a browser. No need for a "high-end" hardware at all. After creating your MetaHuman you can export it to Unreal or Maya (at this moment) and you can chose the Level Of Detail (LOD) in case your hardware can't handle the high rez level. You can even make your animation using a low rez version and then render with the high rez version. This is the future!
Good point. Nobody should be animating at LOD 0 anyways.
10 characters in a scene at <30fps is unacceptable for a game. Hence MH is meant as a starting point, not a final product.
Just to be clear, Unreal Engine is a game-engine meaning its purpose is for game development. Expecting to just drag and drop MH in a project and have it run smoothly in real-time is unrealistic.
some stuffs must be take in account:
1 - hair is strand based and as the dev told today in live they are really high demanding need more optmization and work to be done for game.
2 - the textures in general are insane 8k which also for game currently is a lot overkill,
3 - the test was using the lod 0 which the lod 0 of meta humans is indeed insane high, i meta human have more polygons than a daz character on hd level 1 which already is a lot high poly
4 - using unreal engine 4 - remember we still don't know how unreal 5 will run those big numbers, we know next generation unreal is coming and it's means to deal with high poly with the nanites, then we need to see it in action to see if lod 0 can be handled for games
5 - he is recording, which means more processing, if him was only playing the editor and nothing more maybe the numbers would be a little more high.
here my own test using 20 daz characters on a gtx 1070 i7 7700, and 16 giga ram memory and hd
i could not take a picture of the fps because whenever i tried to take it the fps just fall down to 4, but the scene alond the fps was around 38 to 40
here now with 30 characters
the fps display is wrong this one is when i use the tool to capture the image, the normal fps on that 30.
Another detail which i forget to say, all the characters have on they main body(skin) set to resolution 1 which means 133k tri, the outfits and hairs are all 0 only the base skin is on 1 which means each character must be around 200k tris +
this is with a 1070gtx, a old card, now imagine with a 2080ti or even a 3080 or 3090, probably i could run with at last 5x to 10x or more characters.
You seem to think MetaHumans are meant only for games? You will soon see this is far from truth. It is the perfect companion for indie filmmakers and large film studios alike, the very people Epic is trying to woo. Also, V-tubers and anything needing a human Avatar. UE4 is a game engine, but it isn't just for games. Many directors are seeing that, including myself. I will be shifting a lot of my production from Maya to Unreal Engine because of MetaHumans. I suspect a lot of people will.
BTW, this guy (my personal hero) dropped a MetaHuman in an FPS, unoptimized (LOD0) with facial animation and body mocap running smoothly on a RTX2070 (he says). I'm not into games, but this is cool.
***correction: obviously his game is a 3rd person shooter, not first person as I originally wrote.
So, I have to ask... (trust me I tried to find answer on Google to no avail)... but, er, umm, does MetaHuman have nude bodies that are realistic too? I've only seen awesome realistic faces and clothed bodies. Any insight here?
i've tried to ask that in the last Q&A and unreal forum but no answer so far, until they announce a proper Q&A release we don't know for now, it's really sad.
today i've checked the forum again and while they answered some questions they did see to have avoided my question about it, then i'm feeling which probably they will be family friendly since its "epic", they probably keep it family friend and you have to work yourself to add those stuffs.
At present, there's no nudity - removing the clothes reveals basic underwear. I presume it will stay this way, as that's how (most) games keep their character models.
However, the most annoying part is that there is no option to remove shoes.
Epic's business case for MH is aimed at indie game programmers and filmmakers and there's not really a market for nudity there. For that kind of stuff, you'd best stick with Daz.
THIS ^
From what I can see, the Meta-humans look to be targeting corporate clients needing realistic virtual hosts/spokespeople, virtual newscasters ,social media "influencers"
and of course NATIVE UE 4 users making, Blur studios level, cinematics and feature films.
to be fair is on the "indie market" which you see the "naught games", subverse game which was a success started by a indie "3d hentai animations sort of studio", which used kickstart to fund the game, then indie is the best place to find those stuffs.
you don't see triple A game companies specially now with too much PC culture doing that.
Unreal Engine is a game engine and game engines can do a lot of things... if you know how to code. If you're using a game engine for movie-making it's because of resources not functionality. Something like Clarisse or Houdini far exceeds what Unreal has to offer in this regard. For me the time resource involved in getting Unreal to do what a professional movie software does is better spent in actually learning the professional software instead.
People who are not influencers seem to be underwhelmed about MetaHuman particularly its lack of customization. The faces are indeed highly realistic but there's not much room for customization. Most characters end up looking very similar to one another. This is part due to their decission to add limits in their customization so as not to break the rig underneath, and part to their premade faces which all have almost identical facial skeletal proportions. You can look at all the faces created with MH then compare that with the level of customization a game like Black Desert Online offers. Or you can look at 3dscanstore to see what I'm talking about: MH doesn't create a realistic life-like face, it creates a plausible realistic face.
I want to point out that I'm not against MetaHuman. I'm again just repeating what the developers themselves said MetaHuman is for: getting a baseline for a realistic character to later be customized accordingly. Each project has a mock-up phase which is where MH will prove to be an invaluable resource. Plus the level of realism of MH is the highest I've ever seen which means they've essentially set a new standard in the industry. A mediocre 3D artist today was a top-tier professional 3D artist 10 years ago. Because MH is free they've essentially turned every realistic character artists from a pro-level to a medium-level in less than a year. These people are all concerned across the board.
While I can see a lot of the points you're making, they are only true if you're looking at yesterday's pipeline. Tomorrow's pipeline is centered on content sharing seamlessly between platforms using USD and alembic files. It involves server-based products that unite artists using multiple platforms so I don't have to choose between Clarisse or Unreal Engine (these are not comparable products anyways). I can have both and many. Nobody ever said anything about replacing a whole animation pipeline with Unreal Engine. That would be a ridiculous proposition for some. What Epic offers is a powerful character creation engine that is unrivaled and a very competent raytracer to render. So I am free to animate my character in Maya, watch it update in real-time in Unreal Engine, do scene layout and lighting in Clarisse or Katana or whatever and final compositing in Nuke, AE or whatever floats my boat. The new pipeline means every piece of software is just a tool available to all and there is no reason to be fanboyish about one over another.
Btw, I don't know where you get your news from, but I have yet to see a single "underwhelming" review of MetaHumans from anyone. Sure, it has some compromises - as all such generic character creators do - but every review I've seen has been glowing. People in the industry of Epic's target market are overwhelmed, including myself.
NVIDIA Appears to be apsiring to what you have described
Also AFAIK We have only seen the free tier of MH
Epic has a paid tier for UE 4 itself
what will the paid tier of the Meta-humans offer
certainly some other home software users are finding them useful even without iPhones,
I am saving up for this software
i think what is making unreal stands soo much even outside game developing asside the "resources" is without any doubts "it's price", the fact which you can go from the ge to go without pay a single peny and only have to worrie about 'paying something" later after you make your first "million" even for movies make it's really worth off, in the worst case possible if you movie get's lets say only 100M you only have to pay 5M of it and only with the movie itself any merchandise will be yours it's really attractive,because while somehow maybe buy others tools and learning how to work with then could "less expensive" in the long run, in the short run it means which you already start to have to pay for those stuffs before you have to start to work on the movie, which compared with unreal where you can pay it "later" and even if you actually gains anything if the movie ending being a huge flop like for exemple the movie productions cost without count unreal was let's say 500M and the movie only give u in the worst scene let's say 10M you gonna ending only having to pay unreal 500K, the "unreal cost side" will be much smaller than the others cost of the production, this speaks a lot for many productions nowadays the "risk cost" in unreal is much smaller than going with others tools.
i do agree which the current level of customization of MH is really poor i even told that in one post, it's really limited in his current state and i'm not even talking about the "body" where it's near 0 you only have 3 type of bodies with 3 sizes and 0 customization for then.but indeed the face customization for exemple compared with daz is much poor, what i feel which make MH stands is the level of "customization of the skin with a lot of detials to be added and for basically 0 where in daz to achieve the same level you have to expend some $$, they really need to improve a lot.
The people responsible for MetaHumans have stated repeatedly that Metahumans will remain free for artists who render them in Unreal Engine. It is unclear whether they will offer a paid tier that allows users to take them outside of Unreal but they have no immediate plans to offer MetaHuman assets to be available to any other DCC than Maya. Here is a very informative interview with the creators on the topic:
The experiments my colleagues have done with MH reveal a fantastic feature that offers almost unlimited customization: When applying a morph to a MetaHuman, the joints/bones adjust to the new shape. This means is an artist need only to approximate the proportions of their desired character and then apply a blendshape in Maya to get the exact shape they need without breaking the rig. Combined with the industry-standard UV configuration, we have all the tools we need to "sculpt" or own unique characters outside of the Creator app. When I found out about this, I was all in. Most people are overlooking the real value in Metahumans is the fantastic facial and body rig. It's not the realistic faces that got me to commit to MH, it's the multi-thousand dollar facial rig and body with 700 corrective joints! As someone who personally paid for FACS facial scans and a Snapper's rig, I can tell you that rigging is by far the most costly part of the character development pipeline.
Personally i think DAZ3D has a better layout and understanding to the product then Unreal, while i have registered for a look at the new meta human i don't see much difference in some of the highly detailed models in daz3d iray, really comes down to how you render something and the scale you have the textures set to, upclose with zero back ground most of the daz3d collection models are highly detailed but lose that detail as more is added to the scene, i see this meta human creator as new gimmick which pretty much does the samething as Face Transfer which works fine when using normal Iphones, the better the iphone the better quality picture the editior has to copy onto the model, these metahumans look like people that have had pictures taken of there bodies from all angles in a studio, seen it on BBC news documentry along with that Lavic guy that designs a few things here at DAZ3D, They basical do a face transer but take a picture from every angle of your body then composite it in 3d making a super realistic version of the skin and shape too mold onto a blank model. the setup i have seen had quite alot of cameras setup to take rapid shots of the body like slow motion capture frame by frame, you may want to add how the skin ripples with movement in more detailed models by taking a series of shots as the body moves rather then try and shape it manually to a bodies movement.
I agree about the pipeline completely. It's simply not feasible anymore to have everyone under the same roof in a studio, content sharing/selling is the future. However MetaHuman is not part of that. I watched their most recent stream on it and they explicitly said they have no plans whatsoever to let artists submit their own work to the MH database. A huge missed opportunity in my opinion. This means MH is by no means a competitor to Daz and other places like it. The purpose of MH seems to be to persuade as many people as possible to use Unreal Engine.
I wasn't talking about reviews (which are just a form of paid advertisement). I was talking about what people said on different forums such as this one. As a character artist I fail to see what's so impressive about it. I can see why artists who make realistic humans are sweating but from a technical standpoint it's nothing I haven't seen before. To be fair, if I wasn't into visual asset production I can see why devs are really excited about it.