Why so many high heels

[email protected]

I recently bought this product https://www.daz3d.com/dforce-ember-skies-outfit-for-genesis-8-and-81-females, and like so many other medieval themed outfits it comes with high heels, how can I request or suggest to the content creators to start including an option for heeled and not heeled, it's getting really annoying now.

Leana

That's a debate which comes around regularly. Basically the answer is "Because it sells". 

lou_harper

It's idiotic but it's the status quo and the vendors are sticking with it. The top part of the outfit is stupid too. The weapons are nice; I'd pick it up for those if they went on a $1.99 sale. Otherwise, I just browse right past.

[email protected]

Leana said:

That's a debate which comes around regularly. Basically the answer is "Because it sells". 

I get that but why not release it without heels as well...do both, that way everyone is happy, you get more sales... 

margrave

Leana said:

That's a debate which comes around regularly. Basically the answer is "Because it sells". 

How do they know people don't just kitbash with another pair of boots, though? 

lou_harper

margrave said:

Leana said:

That's a debate which comes around regularly. Basically the answer is "Because it sells". 

How do they know people don't just kitbash with another pair of boots, though? 

1. Good luck finding decent boots without heels.

2. Good luck finding decent boots without heels that look like they could be from the same set.

3. Have fun fixing all the poke-throughs from the pants.

 

margrave

lou_harper said:

margrave said:

Leana said:

That's a debate which comes around regularly. Basically the answer is "Because it sells". 

How do they know people don't just kitbash with another pair of boots, though? 

1. Good luck finding decent boots without heels.

2. Good luck finding decent boots without heels that look like they could be from the same set.

3. Have fun fixing all the poke-throughs from the pants.

You don't need to tell me twice. But I still do it, because the high heels look really, really stupid. 

FSMCDesigns

margrave said:

Leana said:

That's a debate which comes around regularly. Basically the answer is "Because it sells". 

How do they know people don't just kitbash with another pair of boots, though? 

it's what I do all the time and frankly an essential part of creating scenes in 3D IMO.

these 3 are gotos when I don't feel like high heels are needed in a scene

https://www.daz3d.com/flat-boots-2-for-genesis-8-female-s

https://www.daz3d.com/cog-jackboots-for-genesis-8-female

https://www.daz3d.com/s3d-fc-boots-for-genesis-3-and-8-females

margrave

I've gotten a lot of mileage out of these:

https://www.daz3d.com/dforce-protector-outfit-for-genesis-8-females

But really, PAs should just be making sensible shoes for fantasy adventurers.

[email protected]

FSMCDesigns said:

margrave said:

Leana said:

That's a debate which comes around regularly. Basically the answer is "Because it sells". 

How do they know people don't just kitbash with another pair of boots, though? 

it's what I do all the time and frankly an essential part of creating scenes in 3D IMO.

these 3 are gotos when I don't feel like high heels are needed in a scene

https://www.daz3d.com/flat-boots-2-for-genesis-8-female-s

https://www.daz3d.com/cog-jackboots-for-genesis-8-female

https://www.daz3d.com/s3d-fc-boots-for-genesis-3-and-8-females

WOW, thank you, I have never seen these before... these will be very useful. Can't believe there are still items on Daz I have never seen.

[email protected]

margrave said:

I've gotten a lot of mileage out of these:

https://www.daz3d.com/dforce-protector-outfit-for-genesis-8-females

But really, PAs should just be making sensible shoes for fantasy adventurers.

100% agree with this, annoyed that i'm buying clothing sets that look great but have to be throwing out the boots and it wouldn't be difficult for them to just simply do both a heeled and none heeled. 

[email protected]

I wonder if I keep this post going and keep listing clothing items artist will start caring enough to fix it? 
https://www.daz3d.com/woodland-rogue-outfit-for-genesis-8-females

Leana

ShadowSkillz said:

I wonder if I keep this post going and keep listing clothing items artist will start caring enough to fix it? 
https://www.daz3d.com/woodland-rogue-outfit-for-genesis-8-females

Judging from past discussions on this topic, I highly doubt it.

[email protected]

Maybe if we collectively lobbied under one post we could see a change, afterall if 80% are ok but 20% are not, why risk losing 20% of sales for no reason. These are the ones I find annoying, because I also like the boots, just wish there was a flat option:

https://www.daz3d.com/orlean-s-armor-for-genesis-8-female-s

https://www.daz3d.com/dforce-nkea-outfit-for-genesis-8-females

https://www.daz3d.com/draculita-for-genesis-8-females

https://www.daz3d.com/blood-oath-outfit-for-genesis-8-females

https://www.daz3d.com/dforce-sergeant-master-outfit-for-genesis-8-females

https://www.daz3d.com/dark-wolf-outfit-for-genesis-8-females

https://www.daz3d.com/dforce-sparrows-mage-outfit-for-genesis-8-females

https://www.daz3d.com/dforce-shadow-guard-outfit-for-genesis-8-females

https://www.daz3d.com/dforce-immortals-outfit-for-genesis-8-females

https://www.daz3d.com/shadow-walker-outfit-for-genesis-8-females

https://www.daz3d.com/dforce-bang-bang-jackie-outfit-for-genesis-8-females

https://www.daz3d.com/rogue-element-outfit-for-for-genesis-8-female-s

https://www.daz3d.com/fire-soul-outfit-for-genesis-8-females

https://www.daz3d.com/dforce-ruby-siege-outfit-for-genesis-8-female

https://www.daz3d.com/willow-night-outfit-for-genesis-8-females

https://www.daz3d.com/dforce-greenborough-adventure-outfit-for-genesis-8-female-s

https://www.daz3d.com/dforce-spidertech-outfit-for-genesis-8-females

https://www.daz3d.com/dragonette-outfit-for-genesis-8-females

https://www.daz3d.com/advent-outfit-for-genesis-8-females

https://www.daz3d.com/chosen-outfit-for-genesis-8-female-s

https://www.daz3d.com/dforce-cerian-nobility-outfit-for-genesis-8-females

https://www.daz3d.com/dforce-elven-archer-outfit-for-genesis-8-females

https://www.daz3d.com/asteris-outfit-for-genesis-8-females

https://www.daz3d.com/hounds-guard-outfit-for-genesis-8-females

https://www.daz3d.com/soul-keeper-outfit-for-genesis-8-females

https://www.daz3d.com/blackdawn-outfit-for-genesis-8-females

https://www.daz3d.com/goddess-minerva-outfit-for-genesis-8-female-s

https://www.daz3d.com/eleia-outfit-for-genesis-8-females

watchdog79

ShadowSkillz said:

I recently bought this product https://www.daz3d.com/dforce-ember-skies-outfit-for-genesis-8-and-81-females, and like so many other medieval themed outfits it comes with high heels, how can I request or suggest to the content creators to start including an option for heeled and not heeled, it's getting really annoying now.

You may want to check this thread. It contains some useful information on bone positions, and it also contains links to some items you may find useful. I posted a long list on page 2 of that thread:

https://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/415826/stop-putting-heels-on-everything/p1 ;

[email protected]

watchdog79 said:

ShadowSkillz said:

I recently bought this product https://www.daz3d.com/dforce-ember-skies-outfit-for-genesis-8-and-81-females, and like so many other medieval themed outfits it comes with high heels, how can I request or suggest to the content creators to start including an option for heeled and not heeled, it's getting really annoying now.

You may want to check this thread. It contains some useful information on bone positions, and it also contains links to some items you may find useful. I posted a long list on page 2 of that thread:

https://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/415826/stop-putting-heels-on-everything/p1 ;

Thanks for the link, glad to see this is an on going complaint, one that I hope never stops. Hopefully one day the PA's will care about the 20% of sales they aren't getting for a product because it doesn't have both a heeled and not heeled version. I have a lot of those options from your list. For outfits that have heels, the shoe looks good so I would prefer being able to use those rather than always switching them out, they look good enough to be used on other outfits as well it's a shame to see them wasted. 

Richard Haseltine

ShadowSkillz said:

watchdog79 said:

ShadowSkillz said:

I recently bought this product https://www.daz3d.com/dforce-ember-skies-outfit-for-genesis-8-and-81-females, and like so many other medieval themed outfits it comes with high heels, how can I request or suggest to the content creators to start including an option for heeled and not heeled, it's getting really annoying now.

You may want to check this thread. It contains some useful information on bone positions, and it also contains links to some items you may find useful. I posted a long list on page 2 of that thread:

https://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/415826/stop-putting-heels-on-everything/p1 ;

Thanks for the link, glad to see this is an on going complaint, one that I hope never stops. Hopefully one day the PA's will care about the 20% of sales they aren't getting for a product because it doesn't have both a heeled and not heeled version. I have a lot of those options from your list. For outfits that have heels, the shoe looks good so I would prefer being able to use those rather than always switching them out, they look good enough to be used on other outfits as well it's a shame to see them wasted. 

I have to point out that 20% is a wild guess, not a fact. In any event, an extra 20% of sales would be persuasive only if it was more than 80% of the proportion of another high-heeled product that could have been made while working on the low heel additional part - and shoe rigging is fiddly, so time consuming.

[email protected]

Richard Haseltine said:

ShadowSkillz said:

watchdog79 said:

ShadowSkillz said:

I recently bought this product https://www.daz3d.com/dforce-ember-skies-outfit-for-genesis-8-and-81-females, and like so many other medieval themed outfits it comes with high heels, how can I request or suggest to the content creators to start including an option for heeled and not heeled, it's getting really annoying now.

You may want to check this thread. It contains some useful information on bone positions, and it also contains links to some items you may find useful. I posted a long list on page 2 of that thread:

https://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/415826/stop-putting-heels-on-everything/p1 ;

Thanks for the link, glad to see this is an on going complaint, one that I hope never stops. Hopefully one day the PA's will care about the 20% of sales they aren't getting for a product because it doesn't have both a heeled and not heeled version. I have a lot of those options from your list. For outfits that have heels, the shoe looks good so I would prefer being able to use those rather than always switching them out, they look good enough to be used on other outfits as well it's a shame to see them wasted. 

I have to point out that 20% is a wild guess, not a fact. In any event, an extra 20% of sales would be persuasive only if it was more than 80% of the proportion of another high-heeled product that could have been made while working on the low heel additional part - and shoe rigging is fiddly, so time consuming.

20% is a wild guess, but why leave money on the table and potentially unhappy customers, just looking at this post, it seems there are already quite a few unhappy customers https://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/415826/stop-putting-heels-on-everything/p3 , which really doesn't need to be the case.

You aren't recreating anything, you are modifying something you already created to get maximum profits. Rigging can be time consuming however in this case, you are modifying a completed product, and based on the content it shouldn't be fiddly just repetitive for a PA, high heel or no heel, the work should be repetitive not something brand new each time. 

Richard Haseltine

ShadowSkillz said:

Richard Haseltine said:

ShadowSkillz said:

watchdog79 said:

ShadowSkillz said:

I recently bought this product https://www.daz3d.com/dforce-ember-skies-outfit-for-genesis-8-and-81-females, and like so many other medieval themed outfits it comes with high heels, how can I request or suggest to the content creators to start including an option for heeled and not heeled, it's getting really annoying now.

You may want to check this thread. It contains some useful information on bone positions, and it also contains links to some items you may find useful. I posted a long list on page 2 of that thread:

https://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/415826/stop-putting-heels-on-everything/p1 ;

Thanks for the link, glad to see this is an on going complaint, one that I hope never stops. Hopefully one day the PA's will care about the 20% of sales they aren't getting for a product because it doesn't have both a heeled and not heeled version. I have a lot of those options from your list. For outfits that have heels, the shoe looks good so I would prefer being able to use those rather than always switching them out, they look good enough to be used on other outfits as well it's a shame to see them wasted. 

I have to point out that 20% is a wild guess, not a fact. In any event, an extra 20% of sales would be persuasive only if it was more than 80% of the proportion of another high-heeled product that could have been made while working on the low heel additional part - and shoe rigging is fiddly, so time consuming.

20% is a wild guess, but why leave money on the table and potentially unhappy customers, just looking at this post, it seems there are already quite a few unhappy customers https://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/415826/stop-putting-heels-on-everything/p3 , which really doesn't need to be the case.

You aren't recreating anything, you are modifying something you already created to get maximum profits. Rigging can be time consuming however in this case, you are modifying a completed product, and based on the content it shouldn't be fiddly just repetitive for a PA, high heel or no heel, the work should be repetitive not something brand new each time. 

If the sum of missed sales isn't greater than the reduced number of products then more money would be left on the table by doing both than by not - the PAs have plenty of experience on which to judge, we don't

[email protected]

I'm not buying that excuse sorry, this is repetitive work, it can't possibly take that much time to edit a product where it would drastically affect the timelines to create new products.

Richard Haseltine

ShadowSkillz said:

I'm not buying that excuse sorry, this is repetitive work, it can't possibly take that much time to edit a product where it would drastically affect the timelines to create new products.

Changed rigging, changed JCMS, almost certainly changed UVs, all needing to be tested - and it is still an assumption that the flats would substantially increase sales anyway.

kervala

I wanted to create a new complaint topic against high heels, but I noticed this one.

I planned to purchase the "Brooke 8.1 Gold Marksman Bundle" until I saw this nice medieval outfit had high heels :(

So I won't purchase it...

There are less and less sexy outfits (compared to Genesis 1 or 2 ones), but almost always high heels boots or shoes :( I don't understand the logic behind...

I have a lot of friends on DA who agree with me, they don't like high heels for medieval products and don't purchase them.

 

DKrieger

Yep, just was thinking of the Brooke 8.1 Marksman bundle, but again the high heels have stopped me. 

Honestly, any sales stats that show that high heels sell is like a snake eating its tail... if that's all you have for sale, that's all you will sell.  I have bought lots of fantasy and sci-fi stuff in the past thinking, 'well, I'll just kit bash some sensible shoes on', but like a previous person said, it's a fight with poke-through and so on.  I change the shoes, then I change the pants and then the top doesn't fit and I end up not using the product I purchased.  I'm done and have told myself to stop buying oufits I can't use.

And, don't get me wrong - in cases where I want to do a fashion or cheesecake render, I might like some heels.  And I have some great options for that - but it's hardly ever going to be heels from a fantasy outfit.

Sorry for the rant - just needed to add my voice to the chorus.

Chumly

Kinda Curious.

Is there some sort of "add on" that would make the high heel boots more of a "platform" and less stilletto?  Like something that would wrap aound and convert any spike heel to a wedge shoe?  Yeah, I know it is still a high heel, but its easier to justify mentally

Leana

Chumly said:

Kinda Curious.

Is there some sort of "add on" that would make the high heel boots more of a "platform" and less stilletto?  Like something that would wrap aound and convert any spike heel to a wedge shoe?  Yeah, I know it is still a high heel, but its easier to justify mentally

No, and I really don't see how one could build a tool which would work for all shoes.

Leana

kervala said:

I planned to purchase the "Brooke 8.1 Gold Marksman Bundle" until I saw this nice medieval outfit had high heels :(

High heels on fantasy outfits I find annoying but I more or less expect them here.

The boots on the Winter Splendor Outfit made me laugh/cry though. Seriously, who thought that wearing platform boots with spike heels in the snow would be a good idea? The coat itself looks great so I'll probably get it anyway, but the shoes... *shakes head*

FSMCDesigns

kervala said:

I wanted to create a new complaint topic against high heels, but I noticed this one.

I planned to purchase the "Brooke 8.1 Gold Marksman Bundle" until I saw this nice medieval outfit had high heels :(

So I won't purchase it...

There are less and less sexy outfits (compared to Genesis 1 or 2 ones), but almost always high heels boots or shoes :( I don't understand the logic behind...

I have a lot of friends on DA who agree with me, they don't like high heels for medieval products and don't purchase them.

 

Thanks for pointing out that outfit, i hadn't seen it and just just picked it up. As pointed out earlier in this thread I have plenty of none heeled boots I can use if needed and I can see a use for the boots that come with the outfit, win - win for me.

Funny, I figured there would be more of an uproar over the The Drow Mercenary Boots since the first 2 promos show her wearing them in a swamp, LOL. Then i read the description that they were modeled after a fantasy game character which made sense to me as a gamer. One of my fav games is TERA and every female outfit in the game has heels

kervala

FSMCDesigns said:

kervala said:

I wanted to create a new complaint topic against high heels, but I noticed this one.

I planned to purchase the "Brooke 8.1 Gold Marksman Bundle" until I saw this nice medieval outfit had high heels :(

So I won't purchase it...

There are less and less sexy outfits (compared to Genesis 1 or 2 ones), but almost always high heels boots or shoes :( I don't understand the logic behind...

I have a lot of friends on DA who agree with me, they don't like high heels for medieval products and don't purchase them.

 

Thanks for pointing out that outfit, i hadn't seen it and just just picked it up. As pointed out earlier in this thread I have plenty of none heeled boots I can use if needed and I can see a use for the boots that come with the outfit, win - win for me.

Funny, I figured there would be more of an uproar over the The Drow Mercenary Boots since the first 2 promos show her wearing them in a swamp, LOL. Then i read the description that they were modeled after a fantasy game character which made sense to me as a gamer. One of my fav games is TERA and every female outfit in the game has heels

Haha yes :D I wonder if artists already tried to walk with high heels shoes on sand, dirt, etc... ;p

I also usually try to replace them by more adapted ones, but sometimes the textures are just too different and we loose homogeneity :(

 

kervala

Ah and I just noticed some artists like Barbara Brundon are commissionned by DAZ to create outfits, so I wonder if it's DAZ that request high heels... Since I'm used to ask commissions to artists, I suppose these artists are paid upfront by DAZ and have an idea about the outfit they commission.

 

Leana

The fact that an outfit is a Daz Originals means that Daz bought it for a fixed sum rather than brokering it and getting a cut of the sales, not that Daz commissioned the artist to create that outfit. 

kervala

Ah ok, because I read Barbara Brundon description saying she was commissionned by DAZ to create some outfits on her ArtStation : https://www.artstation.com/brbrundon