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Well, the season pass says you get a character one day before it's released. So I presume the dollar value is the same as the store, only adjusted for whatever percentage the season pass discount is.
My thoughts on it:
Probably going to pass on the pass *ba-dum-tsss*. Main reasons:
1) I'm still on the fence about 8.1. While I like the new face pose controls, I wish you hadn't removed the old ones. Even though the new ones give a very natural look, I also wanted to keep the finer control the old ones have without having to use PowerPose. It's maybe kind of minor but it really screws up my workflow while I don't really see the benefits of using 8.1. Having said that, I haven't done really in-depth tests so that could change. But then we get to:
2) Even if I was totally on board with 8.1... I'll put it this way: If the season pass had been the past 5 characters I would have considered it a waste of money. I got Vicky 8.1 due to hype and I do like her but other than that one.... Torment 8.1 is the only one I'll probably get later if I do jump on the 8.1 wagon. Not having any idea what the characters will be except that the first one will be female is too little information. I'm going to guess the next characters will be something like 3 females and 2 males, or maybe even 4/1. And personally, that kinda works for me because that is about the same ratio I buy characters. But I already have a ton of "normal" female/male characters. For example, I couldn't care less about Cleopatra 8.1 because I really don't feel like it was too long ago since you released Tworset 8 and Khemsit 8 back to back. Honestly, I was expecting a female demon to go with Torment 8.1, in fact, the chance that she might be one of the characters on the season pass is one reason I might want to get it. But I really can't think of any other themed character you might release as part of that pass that I might want, because as someone pointed out on this thread, you don't really release that many monsters characters lately (I think he said since G2, but iirc Bullwarg was a core character for G8 and a proper monster character). And if you do, I'm fairly sure you won't do it as part of the season pass because monsters probably aren't very popular and you will get more people angry. Still... let's say I still get it and hope for the best...
3) Yes, I know it was already said we would get a discount on the bundles... but as many also pointed out, the discounts for owning parts of recent bundles haven't been worth it. Considering that in this case it would be the, let's say, "main dish" of the bundle, I'd hope the discount would be higher, but I don't know... another leap of faith.
4) And lastly, the two extra free items. Yet another big leap of faith. As you probably already noticed with people pretty much ignoring the rest of the contents and dividing the price between the characters and the HD morphs, we are not really expecting anything good there. Maybe don't say exactly what they are, but at least some hint that let us know it's not just a... I don't know... a cowbell...and another similarly useless prop. Because, if that's what they are... yeah... you are going to upset some people. might as well dodge that one already. Honestly, more than props, clothes or whatever, I would love if those 2 free items were some nice QoL scripts already on the store or soon to be released.
I think those would be the main reasons against me getting it. The price seems fine to me. I have no idea why people keep saying "900$!" nonsense when you already said that so far it's a one time thing and it depends on how it's received if we get more like it. And even if we get more season passes, it's not paying 150$ for 2 months, it's for 5 characters. If there wasn't a season pass and you bought the next 5 core characters at release you would still spend about the same.
The webinar, I always like watching tutorials even if they cover something I already know, I still might get something out of it. So I think it's a nice extra, especially since it seems we would get a recording of it (it says silver pass only gets the recording so I'm assuming it's available to all tiers). Even if I get the platinum, my internet is quite bad so I might not be able to watch it live. Would be nice to get a confirmation on that @Daz_Jessica
The contests...I don't hate the idea but I doubt I get the time to participate anyway, at least not with a render that would be worth entering. Even if I don't win, these things usually help with getting better and so on.
And finally, the Forum Flair... to be honest... not interested at all, I don't use the forums that much anyway: too much grief. Case in point... this thread... NFT thread...and so on... in fact, the reason I'm posting here is because I saw the banner for the season pass and the first thing that crossed my mind was "oooh, boy, I'm sure the forums are on fire over this". Curiosity got the better of me, and here I am (about to get roasted, most likely)
Summary: do I think the season pass is bad? For me... maybe? I'll probably try to do some more 8.1 testing before the platinum chance is over and if I get convinced enough about working with it, I might get it. Why? Because, despite the possibility of getting stuff I might not like, like I said it is a leap of faith, and I do want to support the people at Daz, hoping they will keep improving the software itself. The bottomline is, despite it's shortcomings Daz has allowed me to do stuff I never thought I'd be able to do as easily. I don't really like the assets available for Poser, I prefer Iray (or free Octane) and I would still be learning how to model stuff if I just used Blender. So yeah, I'm still hoping to get decent animation tools and things like soft body physics, among other improvements.
And even if I don't get the pass... it simply wasn't for me, no need to make a big deal about it. As a mod pointed out on this thread, not every deal (or feature I would add) is for everyone. And IMHO, not understanding that is probably the main reason for the grief around here.
PD. Though I understand it's probably too soon to show pics for all the characters on the pass, maybe at least give all the names? So everyone could have at least some idea what is coming.
I personally think this is a terrible deal and would never spend that much money for base characters. Since we don't know anything abouth the rest of the deal (except that contest that I am not interested in) I will consider this a deal for just the base charaters + HD and a bad deal at that. Especially if the last few ones are any indication of what is to follow.
However, what I want to say is that, if Daz wants to make this work, they will make this the best deal possible, to make people sorry they didn't buy this pass and incetivize them to buy future season passes (which will probably be worse).
That could mean including good free items in the deal (like OOT Hair or something) and makeing some nice tutorials.
Of course, if they added some more information around the offer instead of question marks all around, that would be so much better.
I mean, they could at least release the name of all the base figures, so we knew if they are male or female. They could also give minor descriptions of age/ethnicity .
They could also let us know what kind of free items (either category or artist).
Some indication about the webinars/tutorials would alsoo be good.
Of course, this is Daz we are talking about. I don't remember the last well thought out promotion beforehand.
The lack of information (although I think it's just lack of planning on their part) could make some believe that the content will not be that great.
However, I don't really mind, as I learned lately, after being addicted and buying a lot of things for a long time, that I don't miss on anything if I don't log in daily or buy whatever daz is selling new. As I already have more than enough bought content for whatever I would want to render.
And that's ok, I admit I was guilty of this as well when I started building my own library. With all the deals going on in the 2nd half of the year and the huge range of assets it's easy to get lost in it. I spent maybe more time collecting stuff that I "might" need in the future and buy them now because they are on sale than actually rendering. And yeah, it was fun, in a way.
But last year I cleaned up my entire library- initially I just wanted to reorganize the library folders so I could find it easier. And this was when I realized that I have a lot of environmental sets that I never used. I loaded up some and rendered some and found that while I do love all the sets they looked kinda repetitive to me ... and this was when I realized I own too much.
So for the people who like the DAZ characters this is probably a good deal. Honestly I'm not surprised there are so many of them- I was always under the impression there are a lot of people who buy all the pro bundles so this step seems logical to me. For everyone else though... as someone else said, season passes for an entire year is the price of ZBrush. I'm definitively not in the DAZ demographic any longer as I mainly use the Genesis bases and do everything else in other apps. I'm happy that DAZ still accommodates customers like me, although I rarely spend anything these days.
There's no order number and no dollar value attached to the individual assets. There's more in the bundle than the base characters. There's the inside track at the contest! There's mystery stuff! There's webinars and tutorials! There's the bitchin forum badge! All those things have value. Daz could say "You don't like? We're sorry to hear that. Here's 10 bucks store credit".
You don't get money back if you skip dinner on a cruise. Unless Daz addresses this specifically, I wouldn't assume anything. Besides, differen't people play different dollar amounts for the package.
I am not sure if I am allowed to write this or not.
But I will try my luck.
Have you guys noticed that the exact (with the funny typo not corrected) phrasing is:
"Tutorial/webinair Access: Given once per season utilizing one of the revealed characters"?
Given ONCE PER SEASON!
I could be mistaken, but for me, as a non-native, this means you only get one tutorial/webinar per season pass!
UTILIZING one of the revealed characters.
This sounds very ... (I lack the correct English word that would not be an accusation.)
When I think of this and look at the already existing tutorials from DAZ 3D, I can only ask myself,
"Tutorials from DAZ 3D? The same guys who made ("make" is the wrong tense) the documentation of DAZ Studio or all those outdated tutorial videos that border hard on empty content? Do I really am interested in a tutorial/webinar from that source in exchange for hard cash?"
Sorry, but, "NO!"
For me, it sounds as if this is only a video of a newly released character, so to say, a "gameplay" where someone shows off the base character, playing around with morphs and expressions, and so.
I've read 7 pages now of this thread and then stopped reading, I am sorry if I repeat stuff, and I will not repeat the obvious ones.
For me, it was just a matter of time Daz was starting to do this. It is comparable to (and really, only comparable!) to subscription models every other company is doing. You want Adobe Photoshop? Or Marvelous Designer? Or 3D Studio? Then you pay a subscription fee. The difference is that you know what you get and you get it as soon as it is released. I am asking myself is this season pass is a first try to offer Daz Studio in a subscription model going forward? The season pass itself is nothing for me - I am picky with stuff, I am not buying mysteries I might not like. A way better season pass would have been the following: You pay e.g. $149 for platinum, $99 for gold and $49 for silver, and you get a certain amount of characters in the next x months you can get for free, maybe even a few days earlier in case you are into that. The platinum will offer bigger discounts than the silver of course, and should be higher than the 20% gift card sales, otherwise I'd just go for store credit.
Last, I don't get the forum badges. Yes, there are people out there who love these, but this just sounds like showing off to me. Do you remember the "I am rich" app which was in the Apple app store for a few days, priced at $999? It just showed a diamond, doing nothing else and was absolutely useless, but at least you could tell that you are rich. Apple quickly decided to remove it from the store, but it has been bought several times until then. Not interested...
I've been a Daz customer since Mike and Vicky 2. So yeah, I go back. And I probably have an Daz addiction problem. But not enough of a problem to get sucked in by this pig in a poke pass.
I'm also getting fed up with all the little sloppy stuff. Now, I write books -- more than fifty of them. (I've used Daz to do the covers for a lot of them.) I'm also an editor. We spend a lot of time proofing and checking our books to make sure we don't have so much as missing commas. Professionals do that.
Lately with Daz, I'm getting products that don't work, products I have to download multiple times, products with no library icons to tell me what they are. If you're charging me $25 for an outfit, how about taking the time to make sure it works? You used to do that.
Now, Daz has always had fractious customers. I've raised heck many times. (Michael 3's bowling ball shoulders... ugh.) But you guys really are pushing it the last year or two.
And why the heck would I want to buy a sprite of somebody I've never heard of? NFTs? I know I'm old, but that makes absolutely no sense to me. Why spend money for a gif that's all over the Internet, for God's sake?
Not going to argue about it since that would just be derailing the topic, only going to say that I never said you couldn't, just that it's the main reason I rarely post around here, hence me not caring about the forum flair. So, by all means, grief all you want. Nice day to you too
You forgot the cyperpunk and steampunk stuff, plus the leftovers from the last Egypt bundle...
Yes, Daz Studio is free, I totally get that and I am very happy for this. But the new season pass looks like they are exploring options to convert that model, not to the studio itself, but to the content. Something like "pay us $100 a month and get xyz for free". The season pass looks just like the first step into that direction.
You are making a very good point, this might result in why everyone is not buying so much and Daz has to look into different directions now. I am pretty much the same, my library is huge, and I just don't need character 159. Not saying this is the direction I like, in case someone reads that in my lines...
Still thinking about the value of that season pass thing.
Base figure: Those have usually a list price of $44,95, which is ridiculous but anyhow: 5x $44,95 would make it a value of $224.75.
HD. Those have usually a list price of $39.95, also quite high but anyhow: 5x 39.95 would make it a value of $199.75.
So that would sum up to the $425 listet on the promo page.
Now the "But's":
1) But that $425 savings is listed for PC+ members only who usually pay less on release day.
Yep, there is the intro discount of 30% plus the PC+ member discount which give you 51% on new DAZ originals. I.e. August 8.1 is still listed for $22.03.
If I total 5x $22.03 plus 5x 19,58 I get $110,15 + $97.90 or a total of 208,05. So if I put those other "benefits" aside it is pay $149 now compared to $208,05 later so an extra 59,05 off or an additional discount of approx 28% for the drawbacks of not being able to skip one of the base figures not really needed.
2) But one will get an additional discount on the bundles.
Unfortunately I was quite often not that happy with the additional bundle discounts in the past although I purchased all but some (skipped Michael 8.1, only recently got one of the two Juan Carlos, skipped the 2nd White Priestress bundles). The additional discount on bundles for owning the base figure was often 15%. Not much considering the base figure is often the most expensive single item plus given that recently bundles often containted < 10 items. Also the discount for owning older items (which is the new normal for recent bundles) was often just 10%. Finally nobody knows if DAZ will treat a seasonpass holder any different then a bundle 1-buyer (considering the 2-bundle-strategy will continue). So quite a lot of "If's".
3) But what is the value of the HD's
That is a biggie for me. First I do not always buy the HD's. I use them not quite often, so I often get them late in the game or only if included with the bundle. Recent base figures/bundles also sometimes came without the HD (like Cleopatra 8.1 or the War Goblin 8.1) or had the HD combined with the base figure (like the White Priestess 8.1). So I wonder what the future strategy with HD will be. Finally I wonder why HD is still not an integrated part of a base figure. I mean those figures often come even without a second character built upon it. So why are there more "base" then good PA figures which often include HD or hair and are still cheaper.
That are just some thoughts. I am basically open to new sales promos but I wonder whether that season pass will cut it for me. If it would include the bundles (all two), it would be a no-brainer. But as it is I am not sure about it.
For folks worried about the long-term implications of this pass: while I have been very critical of Daz the past few days, from a microtransaction/premium content design standpoint, this is a totally realistic explanation.
I don't think the way it's presented is fantastic. It's not exciting to not know what you're buying for $150, and if the actual reason for not telling people up front is that it would lock Daz to a release schedule when they usually choose strategically or something I'd rather just be told that.
The part that actually puts me off the most is the contest where getting your art on Daz advertisements is part of the prize. I'm often first in line telling artists on other sites that no, the big company running an art contest to design ingame items or whatever isn't actually asking for spec work because they have people they pay for that and adapting player designs is considerably more work. But Daz actually does use customer artwork as advertisements all the time, and they should be paying people the same rate they would pay any artist on contract.
I'm just waiting for Daz3D to get into Pachinko-machines. Hey, it worked for Konami!
Yep, and if this is something they want to sell every 2 months, it's way overpriced for what's essentially a gacha.
half-hearted infrastructure for me is the keyword for lots of attempts in the past:
animation timeline
dforce
slow loading characters
slow viewports
not so good bridges
a shop with lots of flaws
and i am sure you can add this and that
all half-hearted; not thoughtout to the end
thats my impression
therefor trying to go the hard agressive advertising way to distract from the flaws inside
Either my computer or Daz ate the novel I wrote, so the super short version is: it pisses me off, it makes me worry Daz Studio is no longer the core business of this company and it's going to go the way of Carrara, Hexagon, and Bryce.
Key things that rub me the wrong way: paying for the privilege of marketing for Daz, "flair" so I can feel special while making anyone who didn't buy in feel as if their business/dollars don't matter. (If I buy it, should I print it out and wear it on my sleeve? Or just count how many pieces I have ala Office Space?)
It's beyond my budget for sure. I've not even bought Genesis 8.0 Chinese , Indian, & Latin Pro Bundles my budget is so broke. I'm sure DAZ will make it a great deal for those that do buy membership and want 3D models out of it though. It sounds like it might be a bit more fun too to get Mystery products.
Congratulations daz you just discovered the wonderful world of lot boxes! $149 for a TWO MONTH season pass??!! I have thought you were out of touch crom your customers for a while now, but I had no ikdea just how out of touch you were until now. Between the NFT debacle and now this season pass nightmare... Why don't you guys spend some effort to fix your QA department or all of the outstanding fixit tickets you have pending? That would go a lot further at restoring your customer base than these half baked scemes you are pitching now.
The whole early release of characters thing makes me think they want us to pay to beta test their characters.
I will not pay money for a loot box type of deal. When I do my shopping, I only pay for stuff of what I at least know how it looks like. This deal is a bit like gambling - buying stuff one might or not like. Considering most of the named/core (or whatever one calls them) figures, I am not inclined to bet my money that I might those promised figures. And they are 8.1 which - right now - is a big no-deal.
Luckily nobody is forced to spend their money for this.
What would be the difference to now? We are already beta-testing quite some of the products released as "new". There have only been very few bundles lately where I did not open at least one service ticket.
I go back and forth on this. I often do buy DAZ's base characters, so a season pass might be a money saver for me. And lately I've had the feeling that the base characters are often the best thing in the Pro bundles and that the rest of it isn't really worth buying. So a cheaper way to get "just the good bits" could make sense.
At the same time, the 'sight unseen' aspect of the promotion isn't too appealing. The little voice in the back of my head says "Yeah, but what if the base figure is Cutesyboo Toodles the Magic Toon Hugz Pixie 8.1? That's $30 down the tubes right there." And even if it's not Cutesyboo Toodles, what if we just get a run of new characters who are almost but not quite indistinguishable from the ones we've had before? With due respect to the artists, not all of the base characters that DAZ has put out are truly distinctive or unique. How many more 20- to 30-something white girls do I really need?
The tutorials and the free items suffer from the same "sight unseen" problem. Maybe they'll be life-changing must-haves, maybe they won't. No way to know in advance.
The contest-related perks might be compelling for people who have the time or the talent to compete, but I've seen the standard of art here and I know when I'm outclassed. I will not be taking home any prizes. So that isn't much of a selling point either.
'Flair' holds no interest whatsoever. And I have to admit that when I see something that seems utterly worthless (to me, anyway) being pitched as a significant selling point, it does make me tend to question the value of the whole thing. But that's just my perception; others may see things differently.
I do appreciate that the DAZ staff and mods have taken time to explain clearly the reasoning behind this promotion and to answer people's questions. That's certainly helpful in assessing the merits of the promotion.
To me it looks as if the Season Pass is simply another development in DAZ's long history of playing on people's fear of missing out (FOMO): "What if I don't buy the Season Pass now, and it's really cool?" As such, it's not the end of the world but just another marketing tactic that you can ignore or not as you choose.
My one concern would be that they'll change their pricing models to make the Season Pass seem like more of a bargain, so it'll be harder for anyone who doesn't have a Season Pass to get the kind of discounts we've seen in the past. We'll probably get some hint of what their plans are when the first of the base models drops. However, that may not be until after the Early Bird pricing on the Pass expires so, once again, it's hard to make an informed decision.
Based on how many sales have broken calculations I bet there will be one or more sales days where it would be mathamatically more adventageous to non-season pass holders because something or other will only work with the new figure in the cart or the store software fail to understand the season pass characters as a "purchase".
Regarding the term 'loot boxes,' I think they'll be very careful to keep calling them 'Season Passes' considering Epic have recently been sued for violating state law with loot boxes and a recent study has linked loot boxes with problem gambling.