Come on guys
Scarecrow
Posts: 170
I know the sexy girl stuff must sell really well, but come on, make some cool stuff for the male characters too...
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I agree. There is an obvious lack of male model oriented products. It seams to me that what's available doesn't have the same level of detail and quality as the female product. There are a few gems, but on the whole the male side is lacking.
At least what the guys do get is usable in a wider range of images.
For example, compare Basicwear for Michael 4 (running shoes, shorts, socks, speedos, tank-top, and T-shirt) with Basicwear for Victoria 4 (bikini and underwear). These are products that are supposed to fill the same niche, and you can use both for beach or bedroom scenes, but only the guys get to go to the gym or go out jogging.
I totally agree. More options for G2M's wardrobe would be very much appreciated by this buyer. And while practical wear is always cool to have, I actually wouldn't mind if there were more male options as skimpy as some of the female stuff out there too. ;-)
Old argument.
No new responses.
Life ain't fair.
I think I'll just go eat worms. :-(
workin' on it..
:0
I'm doing it... :-P
*cheers Fisty on*
I'm going to drop this here again because I can :P
I'm doing it... :-P
Haha. I was just about to place both those quotes side by side. :)
We appreciate it very much, Fisty, and will definitely look forward to seeing what you come up with.
---
As for male stuff not selling, I note that the Ragnarok set, along with the characters, by MortemVetus over at RDNA were listed not long ago over at RDNA as their top selling items this year. Not among their top selling items, hidden somewhere at the bottom of the page. But as THE first thumbnails on the top sellers page.
I've noticed that the PC does seem to offer more male clothing, on average, than the PAs -- at least, it offers more Poser compatible stuff. And it's basically the main reason that I decided to start using Genesis. There's plenty of product out there for the various female figures. But it's the stuff for the men that brings me here. That and the amazing quality of the props. Oh, and the hair. :) And the poses. :) And the sales. :) And... and... They fixed the bug really quickly that was stopping me from knowing which products I owned. So, happy again, I am! And pleased to hear that Fisty's making something for the guys. :)
My last male outfit sold only 4 less copies then my last sleeveless mini dress.. and that dress was in a bundle which always do better. /shrug
It's a round and round situation. DAZ can't sell male products because there's not enough demand for them, but the products that ARE made tend to be the male equivalent of skimpwear. Which really isn't what a lot of people want male characters for. The Gianni Bundles were a great case in point, with the entire Pro bundle containing only one (1) outfit that even had a shirt, and that shirt had no sleeves. I thought the figure itself looked great, but I only just finally picked up the starter bundle last week when I was able to get it for $15 bucks.
Fortunately, there's a much better selection of male outfits out there once you go back to Gen 3 and Gen 4 and those usually auto-fit quite well. Of course, that moves more and more of my spending away from DAZ, of course, and there's no way they can see that to track it.
I'm doing it... :-P
for a moment there I thought you meant eating worms :snake:
You'll be happy to know the project I'm working on has two shirts, and they both have sleeves. LOL
That is interesting. I really don't have much use for male items, but always look for versatile, quality ones that I can use for future use. i find that kang1hyun at rendo has some great male items and has started making female ones also.
I have hardly bought any female skimpwear lately either as the quality just isn't there. Not alot of effort was put into the mental process of how the clothing should react/fit/cling, etc based on physics and just plain common sense. maybe some vendors should head out to a club to see how real cloth reacts when on the body, LOL.
I too will say my thoughts on this endless war. As much as i like making scenes with strong ladies as the lead role, i am not into having them in thongs and bras to save/destroy the day. and i don't want them in 200 inch high heels. Just give me nice armor sets, medevil, sci-fi, military, ect...... just make it reasonable! Skimpwear is getting old in my book. The sci-fi sniper outfit would have been great if it covered more, and maybe the lady wouldn't be so cut up! every item these days has the word "Sexy" in it. Not what i am looking for. I shop here because some 4 years ago when i stumbled upon daz, they said they were sticking to a family friendly site............... i guess that was then and not now.
I make less male scenes because i have no product to use! If more product was there, maybe more would sell. very little is being put out for them, and the few that are put out, well i think it was really made for ladies. which comes to the men again, alot of them are too girly looking for me. Like the artist took a g2f and then shaped it into a guy.......... i just want some guys that look like guys.
but in the end, i just say thank you to all the artist out there making stuff because i sure can't. My modeling skills stink. So i will just kit bash as best as i can and keep hoping. I don't really want to head to those other sites, i do like the community here, but the skimp wear is a bit much. nothing like having my kids at the computer with me so we can pick out some items together and see a page full of women 75% naked. Thanks Fisty, by the way, for what project you are working on. Can't wait to see it.
For me it's nothing to do with it being male - I've done more male than female content - it's that full outfits are a risk. I've done them and had them massively succeed, and I've done them and had them massively fail. Both of those are incredibly time consuming to get finished to my satisfaction and DAZ's.
This is why I've tended to move away from clothes lately. Not that I have a problem with other artists doing that - go for it, Fisty, I'll probably buy it. ;) But I'm done with spending a month on an outfit and taking the massive personal hit of having it fail. My current rule for clothing is that if it can't get done in a week, it's not getting done.
My bigger projects usually take me 2 to 3 weeks if I'm left to work on them uninterrupted.. unfortunately that rarely happens. (As I make matfiles and render thumbnails for a female character that needs to get done OMG right now)
I've been passing by skimp wear no matter what figure it's for. I hope it doesn't take as long to outfit G2M as it did Michael 4 who currently has tons of great stuff available.
I'm thoroughly annoyed by stiletto heels on dragonslayer-type outfits. I checked out some Frazetta and discovered (at least from the Bing images I perused) he didn't seem to like painting feet so it was impossible to tell if his gals boots were flat or heeled. :lol:
And any outfit an elf or drow or whatever might wear while tramping through the woods surely wouldn't have high heels either. Which means, of course, these ensembles are not meant for telling non-fetish stories.
I've actually purchased outfits I didn't like just because the boots were flat. Don't ask me which ones, I don't remember.
I just wanted to tell you that I absolutely love your no-textures, but shading-domain-coded promo images! It's such a useful view to have! Thank you!
You know I'm all about some shader love.. =)
Yes, Many thanks to people like Fisty and FWArt along with several other clothing and texture artists here at Daz who bring much needed additions to our male runtimes. It is very much appreciated. :kiss:
This topic regarding the lack of male items available, generally always crops up from time to time, and one I always feel compelled to respond to.
I think it very interesting that this thread and topic has been picked upon by NEW members. For me it confirms how much the lack of male orientated items is evident.
However, as I always comment, it doesn't matter if you are looking to clothe your Sims 1, Sims 2 or Sims 3 characters or clothe your 3D creations....if they are male characters, you are onto a hiding for nothing.
The real world revolves mostly around female fashion, and you only have to compare mens clothing stores with womens to see this in action. The lack of colours and design in mens clothing makes me feel that's true, and sadly this theme continues into online worlds and 3D design.
As a 3D artist who does a lot of male orientated artworks, I too find this to be very frustrating. However, this is the way the world turns, so be thankful for all the great artists we have here, and give them your full support.
Maybe some of our new members will become male texture and clothing artists. Who knows ? Amazing things happen when a gap in the market is spotted ;-P
Cheers :-)
I've made four male outfits, the platinum club "mean streets" (not my name for it or promos), Vandals, Jaunty and Loose...
And yeah, I don't think I'll ever make male clothing again. The time/sales reltation... they were a waste of time.
The debate over the profitability of male vs female does come up quite a bit, as do posts about how poor the sales are.
I guess for me, I do feel saturated with women's bikini skimp wear especially this last month, where there were many consecutive releases. There are a lot of boiler plate outfits which are released which seem cut from the same cloth and quite similar one to another. I don't even look anymore, really since unless I can layer it to look sci-fi, usually over a bodysuit, I don't have much use for it.
I admit my needs are mostly in the male, or unisex contemporary military/sci-fi/futuristic outfits.
Lots of people love Skimpwear and female outfits. They sell, and that's fine. I do wish DAZ would mix it up though.
I think another problem lies in the fact that in the real world men's clothing is more tailored while women's clothing is more draped. Men's clothing (not all the time but often), is both looser and more angular; both make it harder for a mesh to realistically deform for both shaping and posing.
Even where both real-world clothes are tailored, lets take jeans as an example, the differences make it IMO easier to model women's clothes. Women's jeans have significantly more spandex, even if they're not skinny jeans. They tend to not form strong wrinkles, whereas men's jeans tend to form strong wrinkles as the body moves, which in 3D requires either dynamic clothing or a lot of JCMs
To further back this up, even if we just stick to women's clothes, the number of sweaters and knit tops dwarf the number of blouses, my guess is that this is for the same reason: things that are smooth/less wrinkly are easier to make and easier to make look good.
Couple that with the fact that female stuff reportedly sells better, and I really don't blame the vendors.
I think this - that Men's clothing is more demanding combined with it appealing to a smaller market (that otherwise is just as divided as the female market (Goth vs. Fantasy vs. Sci-Fi. vs. Contemporary vs. Historical vs....)) does make Men's clothing at least a higher risk market than female skimpwear.
I have every item JoeQuick listed off on my wish list (except the PC release, which I own) but various factors have kept me from getting them (the only one I can be specific with is Jaunty, which is similar to an outfit released by Out of Touch. With OOT's version being closer to what I needed at the time. I do still plan to get Jaunty, though.) If I could get every male outfit that I wanted, I would. But there's only so much money to go around which also has to cover other hobbies and the occasional female non-skimpwear, as well as sets and critters, and quite often, there isn't enough of it available when the stuff I want to encourage is released, and it doesn't seem to matter if I buy it later, since I've missed "voting with my wallet" in that "sweet spot" of the first few days... which makes me feel awful that I couldn't do more to support the stuff I want. (There are vendors, though none that have posted in this thread, who do a great job of making me feel like it is *my* fault that their latest attempt at male clothing failed because I couldn't afford buy it the first day it was released.)
I have something in testing that is sci fi and has both a male and female version. They are alike in that they look like they belong to the same world/theme/time, but they are both different outfits. And my next project is male, sports related but sexy (I think so anyway). I may start to drift toward more male clothing, but as you've read, the time spent making an entire outfit does not always make the sales worth it. One could spend that same 3 weeks to a month and produce something that actually earns enough to pay for the month's work
It really depends I think on what is being sold and the quality. I can't afford to buy it just because it is a male outfit. I'd love to, but can't.
I don't like tights on the guys but a lot of pants look doughy or painted on They are soft and doughy looking, or have wrinkles but no pockets, or fly and look strange. I'd love for example a male version of Stonemason's Rogue Sci-fi outfit v6. . I use that on both genders, and the detail is stunning.
I like a lot of older M4 outfits because the modeling and details seem more realistic. Genesis clothing can be doughy, especially when belts and buckles and such around the middle of the waist become easily distorted.
Good points Spit and Kamion99.
Shoes, well I have simply resorted to using shaders to make others footwear match the outfits. It can be a drag at times when you just want to render a scene rather then fuss with cloth colors.
Angular geometry and pose morphing. It is indeed a major baine for all involved, ranging from Skirt-flower to Balloon-knee skirts, and buckles that wont keep there shape when posed.
As for another funny name for that other site I guess, "Skimp-wear" (Skimp-erosity, lol). With allot of outfits, you still need a good pair of undergarments, just to be safe around reflective floors and such. The past week or so, I have picked up a few sets I've yet to download.
P.S.
I don't have anything against 'Renderosity', I just find it funny how many different puns people have made for the sight. That cute little ArchaeopteryxDR in most of my renders at this point, came from there. The little fella is perfect for adding a tad of funny to most of my renders. Or as some put it, the audience in the image.
DaWaterRat, that is exactly my situation as well. I wanted (and still do) to get Lee6, David6 and Michael6. And the funds I set aside for the three Pro packs, ended up going to other items. Perhaps in the next couple of months I can rectify that, not for the next two weeks tho. I kind of just spent the last of what I can get away with.