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  • cafedeliccafedelic Posts: 10
    edited April 2015

    Thank you Saiyaness- I have the AoA lights but haven't really learned how to use them well enough yet. This is a great idea for a product update!

    One of the most frustrating and time-consuming elements of setting up scenes in DAZ Studio for me has been getting rim lights adjusted using Spot-Light cameras. Guess I was spoiled by the Runtime DNA Render Studio light kits for Poser.

    Anyway, RLR has knocked about 20 minutes per scene off my workflow!

    Best of all, RLR DOES work with both the AoA-Ambient and Distant lights -- as long as the AoA lights are placed in the scene BEFORE the Rim Light Rig and the RLR Uber-Environment light is deleted.

    I get the best results combining AoA and RLR if I reduce the intensity of each of the RLR lights to 100 Percent, and reduce the intensity of the Ray-Traced Shadows to 50 percent. I also reduce the key light (Distant Light) to about 30 percent and flag any trans-mapped props to Ray-Traced Shadows to OFF. The fill light (Ambient Light) is at about 50 percent, and I leave the Ray-Traced Shadows on to capture some of the Diffuse color.


    I tried changing Shadow Type to NONE for the RLR Spot Lights--which should increase render speed--but it also produced some very odd color shifts in the skin tones.

    A nice upgrade to RLR (::hint, hint::) would be the ability to flag surfaces so that transmapped props such as hair can be excluded from Ray Tracing.

    I find I can render a figure in about 10 mins at 2500 dpi with Ray Tracing flagged to off for the AoA Distant Lights, but turned on for the AoA Ambient. I'm sure it would be even faster if I could flag Ray Tracing off in the RLR Lights as well.

    The image below was rendered at 5000 dpi and took about 30 minutes. It was then painted in PS and Studio Artist 4.

    Happy Rendering.

    Harlequin-Hoop.jpg
    2000 x 1674 - 496K
    Post edited by cafedelic on
  • Sfariah DSfariah D Posts: 25,783
    edited December 1969

    Forgot I got this. I need to figure out how to use it asap

  • MarshianMarshian Posts: 1,460
    edited December 1969

    Marcius said:
    Hi, I think is a great product you have, but I'm having the same problem as Luci45, when I try to delete the lights from scene DS crashes. Also when I use the hair shaders, it increases dramaticaly the render time.

    Hi Marcius,

    Thank you!
    Sorry it's taken so long to respond here. I keep getting disconnected from these threads I've subscribed to.

    I'm still not sure what the crashing is about, I never experienced this in creating the product and the tester didn't encounter it. It's going to take some one-on-one to figure it out. Have you uninstalled/reinstalled using DIM with D|S turned off?

    The hair shaders do take more rendering time, that is a normal function. The shader converts materials to Ubersurface and there are a lot more calculations to generate the effects. Mainly to have light travel through it from behind and light it up, otherwise it would be a dark silhouette.

  • MarshianMarshian Posts: 1,460
    edited December 1969

    alken said:
    I really like this product, it saves a lot of light positioning time. Here's a test render using your rim light rig combined with my own lighting.

    FYI, DS crashes on me if I delete the target ball. It does not crash when I delete the light rig.

    alken- thanks! very nice render btw.
    Crashing due to deleting the light target is a bit more information towards a diagnosis. Since all of the lights are pointed at that prop it makes sense that it would cause a problem.

    I just tried to recreate the crash and could not. Deleting the target just changed the spotlights to point at nothing

    I would say don't delete this target, it doesn't render. It can be hidden or if you want to move lights individually select all the lights and change the (Parameters/misc) point at to nothing.

    Any more crash details posted here will help.

  • MarshianMarshian Posts: 1,460
    edited December 1969

    Luci45 said:
    Here is one I was working on when my electricity went out last night, and it wasn't saved. It needs light from the doorway to make it believable but looks very promising. I turned off the specular lights and the 6, 4 and 8 o'clock ones. This has a UE light with a map and and overhead AoA Spotlight. I did a second render with just the rim lights on the walking figure only and added the layer in Photoshop. So the second render shows it without the rim lights.

    I saved just the lights w/o the ball and torus. Not as handy but it doesn't crash DS.

    I think the firefly problem is caused by either displacement or bump maps catching the light. It was only on men's faces where maybe there was scruff texture. Not a problem on the female or gray with no texture.


    Glad your making progress here. Nice work!
    I might not be fully understanding the problem here with deleting parts of the rig. The light target ball and torus do not render so they can be left in your scene, or hide them if they are distracting.

  • MarshianMarshian Posts: 1,460
    edited December 1969

    Ameesa said:
    Just wanted to tell you how much I like this set and I also picked up the ALR set. Had to wait till payday to get them, then the weekend to do a test run. I also picked up Cara HD at the same time, put her together with your Rim Light Rig and LOVE the results. I think though, I picked the most demanding hair I possibly could have. Anyway here is my first test using your set. No postwork done on render.

    That's Amazing!

  • MarshianMarshian Posts: 1,460
    edited December 1969

    Kulay Wolf said:
    Forgot I got this. I need to figure out how to use it asap

    Hi Kulay Wolf!
    the rig and camera load at the scale and position for a standing figure (at default position). I made very effort to allow for quick set up, even the for light targets default position.

  • MarshianMarshian Posts: 1,460
    edited December 1969

    cafedelic said:
    Thank you Saiyaness- I have the AoA lights but haven't really learned how to use them well enough yet. This is a great idea for a product update!

    One of the most frustrating and time-consuming elements of setting up scenes in DAZ Studio for me has been getting rim lights adjusted using Spot-Light cameras. Guess I was spoiled by the Runtime DNA Render Studio light kits for Poser.

    Anyway, RLR has knocked about 20 minutes per scene off my workflow!

    Best of all, RLR DOES work with both the AoA-Ambient and Distant lights -- as long as the AoA lights are placed in the scene BEFORE the Rim Light Rig and the RLR Uber-Environment light is deleted.

    I get the best results combining AoA and RLR if I reduce the intensity of each of the RLR lights to 100 Percent, and reduce the intensity of the Ray-Traced Shadows to 50 percent. I also reduce the key light (Distant Light) to about 30 percent and flag any trans-mapped props to Ray-Traced Shadows to OFF. The fill light (Ambient Light) is at about 50 percent, and I leave the Ray-Traced Shadows on to capture some of the Diffuse color.


    I tried changing Shadow Type to NONE for the RLR Spot Lights--which should increase render speed--but it also produced some very odd color shifts in the skin tones.

    A nice upgrade to RLR (::hint, hint::) would be the ability to flag surfaces so that transmapped props such as hair can be excluded from Ray Tracing.

    I find I can render a figure in about 10 mins at 2500 dpi with Ray Tracing flagged to off for the AoA Distant Lights, but turned on for the AoA Ambient. I'm sure it would be even faster if I could flag Ray Tracing off in the RLR Lights as well.

    The image below was rendered at 5000 dpi and took about 30 minutes. It was then painted in PS and Studio Artist 4.

    Happy Rendering.

    cafedelic,
    Thanks so much for posting your ideas and settings here. I have been experimenting with the AoA lights and have a good feel for them now. I don't know if there will be another version of RLR that includes these lights- there are many factors to consider when updating a product.

    At the very least your ideas will assist someone else using the product and I will be able to incorporate them into my personal copy of RLR!

  • SGattonSGatton Posts: 59
    edited December 1969

    marshian said:
    alken said:
    I really like this product, it saves a lot of light positioning time. Here's a test render using your rim light rig combined with my own lighting.

    FYI, DS crashes on me if I delete the target ball. It does not crash when I delete the light rig.

    alken- thanks! very nice render btw.
    Crashing due to deleting the light target is a bit more information towards a diagnosis. Since all of the lights are pointed at that prop it makes sense that it would cause a problem.

    I just tried to recreate the crash and could not. Deleting the target just changed the spotlights to point at nothing

    I would say don't delete this target, it doesn't render. It can be hidden or if you want to move lights individually select all the lights and change the (Parameters/misc) point at to nothing.

    Any more crash details posted here will help.

    If you don't mind my asking, are you using Windows? I'm on a Mac, using OS X Yosemite and DS definitely crashes (4.7 and 4.8 Beta) if the ball target is removed from a scene. I specify removed because using File>New also will crash DS. I remember awhile ago, LAMH had a similar problem limited to Mac's only.

  • MarshianMarshian Posts: 1,460
    edited December 1969

    I'm on a MAC too. You don't need to delete the target ball, it does not render. You can turn the eye off if you don't want to see it in working view. Let me know if this doesn't work for you.

  • SGattonSGatton Posts: 59
    edited December 1969

    You missed the reason I specified removed: If I create a new scene, DS crashes, same as if I were to delete the ball.

  • MarshianMarshian Posts: 1,460
    edited April 2015

    SGatton said:
    You missed the reason I specified removed: If I create a new scene, DS crashes, same as if I were to delete the ball.

    Sorry SGatton. I do want to help and get you back into your work flow.

    So here's the deal with the target ball- All of the spotlights set to ON are pointed at The target Ball (Parameters tab/Misc/Point At). So I can see why in deleting it would use cause DS to hiccup. You could try setting all of the "ON" Spotlights to point at: nothing instead before you talk any action that would normally cause DS to crash.

    The testers and I did not encounter any crashing. I use this product myself all the time and I have been using it longer than anyone. I cant reproduce the problem. A few people have mentioned it and I've experimented with the steps mentioned leading up to the crashes.

    I see you are using DS 4.7 or 4.8. Thats good

    Two Immediate ideas to proceed:
    1. I'd like to explore this with you and maybe the posts will help others. If you can give me a step by tep leading up to the crash I will follow the same actions.

    2. Uninstall and reinstall RLR with DS closed and see if the problem(s) persist.

    I'm watching this thread today and can respond within and hour or two.

    Edit 12:18 : could you try clear the scene instead of file new? see screen cap below.

    clear_scene.png
    179 x 182 - 19K
    Post edited by Marshian on
  • SGattonSGatton Posts: 59
    edited December 1969

    Thanks for the reply. I'll have to work on your suggestions in a few hours. I have class shortly. I can, however, tell you that I have tried it in both 4.7 and 4.8, with the same results. I've also disabled every 3rd party plugin I have running (LAMH, Garibaldi, Reality, etc.) and still the event occurs. The only thing that I find questionable, is that even when I disable Reality, it still shows as loading when I look at the crash log for DS.

  • MarshianMarshian Posts: 1,460
    edited April 2015

    SGatton said:
    Thanks for the reply. I'll have to work on your suggestions in a few hours. I have class shortly. I can, however, tell you that I have tried it in both 4.7 and 4.8, with the same results. I've also disabled every 3rd party plugin I have running (LAMH, Garibaldi, Reality, etc.) and still the event occurs. The only thing that I find questionable, is that even when I disable Reality, it still shows as loading when I look at the crash log for DS.

    It's strange for sure. There are no exotic elements/plugins for this product. The main idea and fine tuning the rig was where the real time went in development. The actual construction- lights, objects and surfaces are fairly basic.

    standing by.

    Post edited by Marshian on
  • SGattonSGatton Posts: 59
    edited December 1969

    marshian said:
    SGatton said:
    Thanks for the reply. I'll have to work on your suggestions in a few hours. I have class shortly. I can, however, tell you that I have tried it in both 4.7 and 4.8, with the same results. I've also disabled every 3rd party plugin I have running (LAMH, Garibaldi, Reality, etc.) and still the event occurs. The only thing that I find questionable, is that even when I disable Reality, it still shows as loading when I look at the crash log for DS.

    It's strange for sure. There are no exotic elements/plugins for this product. The main idea and fine tuning the rig was were the real time went in development. The actual construction- lights, objects and surfaces are fairly basic.

    standing by.

    Aaaaaaand home from class...

    Clear the Scene is the same as File>New, in they both use command-N as their shortcut. As to step-by-step, here we go...

    1: Open Daz Studio 4.7
    2: Add !RLR Main (or any of the RLR) to scene by double-clicking on image.
    3: Clear scene/New/Delete Rim Light Target (don't save on New/Clear Scene -- though it still happens when selecting save)
    4: Crash

    Repeat same for Daz Studio 4.8.

    I'll try to uninstall, reinstall next, and let you know what happens. The next step after that, I'll uninstall DS 4.8 Beta (since it happens there as well), then reinstall it, without any additional plugins, and see if RMR works there.

  • SGattonSGatton Posts: 59
    edited December 1969

    I'll be honest with you though, I don't think it is indicative to RLR specifically because I have a vague memory that I have another lighting set that has target lighting (or something) that when it is deleted, it crashes DS also. I want to say it is Dreamlight's Studio Light Pro 4.6 presets.

    (Yep, that crashes it also -- so it has something to do with the light target specifically, which truly leads me to believe there is an issue with a plugin conflicting with that aspect)

  • SGattonSGatton Posts: 59
    edited December 1969

    Okay, uninstalling RLR and reinstalling did not work. However (and I'll be honest), I didn't think it would. I've just removed and deleted DS 4.8, and reinstalling it now.

  • SGattonSGatton Posts: 59
    edited December 1969

    Good news is, a clean install of DS 4.8 cleared the problem right up, which lends support to a plugin as being the cause of the problem. I'll install one at a time, then test, to troubleshoot which one is causing the problem. I have a feeling I know which one it is, however...

  • MarshianMarshian Posts: 1,460
    edited December 1969

    SGatton said:
    I'll be honest with you though, I don't think it is indicative to RLR specifically because I have a vague memory that I have another lighting set that has target lighting (or something) that when it is deleted, it crashes DS also. I want to say it is Dreamlight's Studio Light Pro 4.6 presets.

    (Yep, that crashes it also -- so it has something to do with the light target specifically, which truly leads me to believe there is an issue with a plugin conflicting with that aspect)

    Found this thread to back up your story: http://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/50573/

    Your answer must be, however inconvenient, Un-Pointing-At the spotlights. Let me know what you find out.

  • SGattonSGatton Posts: 59
    edited December 1969

    I'll try un-pointing the light in a second. I will let you know (granted, I have not checked any other plugins yet) the first plugin I installed (Reality 4) and suddenly, crashing of DS upon deletion again.

  • SGattonSGatton Posts: 59
    edited April 2015

    LOL -- un-pointing the light crashed it immediately. I didn't even have a chance to command-N or delete.

    So, the problem seems to be a conflict between Reality and light targets.

    edit: However, that only occurs when pointing at None. If I have the lights point at anything else, e.g.: RimLight UE2, no crash on the change, but still crashes when the target is ultimately deleted.

    Post edited by SGatton on
  • SGattonSGatton Posts: 59
    edited December 1969

    Yeah -- the problem is a conflict with Reality 4. Verified by deleting the Reality plugin folder from the plugin folder on my DS 4.7 install, and the crashing stopped -- even with other plugins running fine. I'll send a note over to Paolo (creator of Reality) to let him know. I don't use Reality all the time, but there are points where I need the unbiased render capability for realism.

  • MarshianMarshian Posts: 1,460
    edited December 1969

    Ah, It's so good to finally have an answer. Thank you for all the detective work.
    Please let me know how Paolo responds. I have at least one more product in mind that uses the Point At feature.

  • SGattonSGatton Posts: 59
    edited December 1969

    Hey, an update for this -- well, that would be stretching it -- I submitted the note on his forums, and in over a month, received no answer from him on this. I posted a reply to my original post asking if it's been looked at.

  • MarshianMarshian Posts: 1,460
    edited December 1969

    Sorry you haven't heard back- it stinks- I know. I wondered what he might be going through now that ray is out.
    Thanks for following up here.

  • SGattonSGatton Posts: 59
    edited December 1969

    Well, I know he is working on a pretty substantial update to Reality, which is fine. I just wish he would at least acknowledge the original bug report and say something even if it is, "Hey, I'll see what I can do about squashing it in the upcoming new release."

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