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Hey I don't judge, we all do what we need to deal with those long, lonely lockdown nights.
Ok, so it has been a long time. I keep seeing this hair pop up in all sorts of various sales, so I took another look at the promo pics once again. And there is no question these pics are very...altered.
I mentioned deep fake tech in my first post in this thread. While deep fakes can be extremely convincing, I have found one key element that gives even the better deep fakes away are the irises. The iris and pupil are not always round with deep fakes. With that in mind, take a hard look at this promo. Look at the right iris. It is NOT round. It blends in to the eyelash on its top left corner. You can even see the outline of the iris 3 times in that one spot, as if the AI was unsure of where to place these pixels. The pupils also look strange. But there is more, and I am surprised nobody ever mentioned this before now because it you cannot unsee it once you do! We all spent so much time looking at this girl's face that no one paid attention to her HANDS. Her hands have melted together! What on earth is going on there??? Not just that, but the elbow has...ate her arm.
That stuff is pretty abnormal to say the least. While it is certainly possible to have your character intersect with itself from posing, it will not result in an image like this. I also find it difficult to believe that the artist would do this manually in post. That leaves one conclusion....there was an AI behind the result of this image. I am sure that image started out with a Daz character posed this way, perhaps even Alisa as was suggested before. But I believe that image was sent through some kind of AI program like Face Swap or similar to create this end result, which blended the original Genesis character with the face of an AI created human. Of course this is simply my speculation. And I will again point out that this is not a problem, at least with this product. This product is for hair, so however the promos come up with a face makes no impact on the hair product itself, it is not false advertising. It did achieve one thing for sure, the promo pics instantly captured many people's attention, which is what promo pics are meant to do. I believe that the artist used this method with a number of promos in this and other products like the pose collection mentioned previously. All of the smiles we have been admiring have this same sort of quality to them in every one. The very first promo pic for this hair has her hand holding a brush, and it doesn't look right.
Regardless of what method was used to create these promo images, I do believe we can come to the conclusion that the character seen in the various promo images for the hair is not a "true" Genesis character as they are presented, it has been altered in post processing in a way that no Genesis character can match currently. It is certainly admirable to try, though. I would hope that these kinds of smiles would be the ultimate goal of Daz users who seek realism. I think we will get there.
oh wow great catch outrider42
Reckon you're right @outrider42, there was so much buzz around the original Judy Love that if she did exist as a morph it would make no sense not to release her.
I gave up on trying to recreate her and after some more tweaking now have this 'inspired by RS' character. Not the same but still quite pretty I think.
Yours is actually prettier :)
To my eye, Kharia is a lot more attractive - Stylized, not creepy.
Very pretty. Well done.
I see Rarestone girls in Renders all over the Internet. If you look at the 'rotica website they're featured in product ads and comic books. I see them in art on Japanese websites. I see them in Deviantart artwork by various artists. WHY is 3D content such a mystery? I worked on a TV series, and if sombody watched an episode and liked the sweater one ofthe actors was wearing and wrote and asked where to buy it, we'd just tell them the brand or designer and anything else we knew about it. 3D content is like TOP SECRET intelligence information that can't be disclosed to the public. There's NOTHING more frustrating about DAZ3D than not being able to identify or buy content pictured on the site. And it's not just ME. Every day there are threads and threads and more threads in the Forums with CUSTOMERS pleading, "Please help me identify this product or tell me where I can get it." I often get so fed up with the lack of transparency about content that I just leave the site and don't return - and the periods I don't return are getting longer and longer. On ANOTHER content site I wrote and asked a vendor what character she used in a particular promo image, and she told me what three characters she combined, and the percentage of each character dialed in, and the character the skin came from. If it's DAZ's deal with content creators to do customer service, then DAZ should be answering the questions about identifying content used in the images on their site.
some artists are very protective of their original characters
I personally knew a few who really disliked people asking them for the dial and skin etc details on their DeviantArt gallery
DAZ promos are a bit different to that I will admit as they are actually selling a product
Ikea you can get everything shown in the store in their catalogue and this is what consumers expect
And did your TV seris feature other series on competing channels, and give the scheduling of their episodes?
What? TV series on competing channels and the scheduling of episodes - of every TV series, were public knowledge, published in TV Guide and in most daily newspapers. I don't know what you're talking about.
Since the Academy Awards are tonight, I'll thow in this personal anecdote about generating good will with consumers of your products. When I saw the trailer and publicity photos for the movie MEMOIRS OF A GEISHA, I wrote to the movie's set decorator Gretchen Rau (I DIDN'T TELL HER I WAS A SET DECORATOR TOO) and told her how much I loved the look of the movie and asked her where she sourced the antique Japanese paper lanterns in the film. She SENT me one of the lanterns. Then she won the Oscar for Art Direction.
I was asking if you actively promoted rivals. That is what you are asking Daz to do - it is not the equivalent of your example because there the things being linked to were in a different field from your own business.
I'm not asking anyone to PROMOTE anything. I'm saying that not identifying products in DAZ3D promo images causes a huge amount of frustration for DAZ shoppers that is evidenced by the number of threads in the Commons Forum every day from customers begging someone to identify products they see used on the DAZ site as promotion for DAZ products. It's NOT fun spending hours searching through thousands of products on multiple websites to find something. I see what's happening from your post - you regard other content sellers as "rivals". I don't see them as rivals - I see them as complimentary to the DAZ3D business. If DAZ posted the credits for resourses used in the promo images on its site, and the other sites posted the credits for DAZ products used in the promo images on their sites - DAZ and the other sites would EARN A TON MORE MONEY SELLING A TON MORE PRODUCTS. You all have an ALREADY built-in customer base of people desperate to BUY MORE PRODUCTS AND SPEND MORE MONEY MORE OFTEN. The 3D content sites aren't taking advantage of the biggest FREE advertising opertunity staring everybody in the face. The other sites aren't RIVALS because you all sell products that are (mostly) unique to your own sites. If the other content sites sold EXACTLY THE SAME conent, THEN they would be rivals - like department stores that ALL sell exactly the same model refrigerators and the exact same designer underwear and the exact same everything - THOSE are rival companies. Or manufacturers that sell basically ONE product, like computer companies, or cell phone companies, or car companies - THOSE are rival companies. But the 3D content sites are complimentary because NOBODY is going to buy content from ONE site - EVER - like, "I only buy Apple computers" or "I only drive General MOTORS cars." A BATMAN movie and a WONDER WOMAN movie open on EXACTLY the same day - they would APPEAR to be rivals, but they aren't, because you see BATMAN this weekend and WONDER WOMAN next weekend. 3D content buyers relish the diversity of products unique to each site, and BUY content from MORE THAN ONE SITE - products they USE WITH products from other sites - THAT'S why they are complimentary businesses. Lose the CORPORATE mentality - you're selling to ARTISTS.
I obviously turned the spelling and grammar funcions off to type this - I'm obviously illiterate.
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or DAZ can insist on only DAZ store content being used in Promo images
thats not as ridiculous as it seems, might be unpopular with promo artists though but they need to realise this isn't an opportunity to show off their skills but rather the product being sold
the gallery is for the latter
Frankly I've wondered why they don't require that, it's not ridiculous. With the tens of thousands of products Daz has, not only use the products but list what was used. And get a REQUIRED STRUCTURE for where files go. We shouldn't have to look for products by going into ReadMes, things should be in a predictable place.
Because it is ridiculous. For a lot of vendors, their efforts barely break even, even before you add the massive amount of bookkeeping that would be required to make sure you don't use any morphs from anywhere else, and you'd also have to hope that nothing you used got withdrawn before product submission (and that happens relatively often).
You'd also get push back from vendors who want to use their own unique characters to establish a brand identity (assuming we're ruling out morph mixing because you end up with something that's not an available product, and because, frankly, if you require all of *that* to be listed, a used assets list would be ridiculous). Remember, Daz is in the position that they have to balance the interests of both the vendors and the customers, as they need both to run a marketplace. If Daz pushed that policy, they'd lose more vendors than the sales they lose from the comparatively few users who like to vent on the forums about not being able to identify products.
I generally try to be philosophical about this; It's alright to not be able to buy every character or outfit I like - I have a massive portion of my library unused.
Now, in the event it actually hinders the ability to use the product, I'll concede that unlisted products do represent an issue; a while back I ended up not buying a football (or "soccer", if you must) pose set because I couldn't find the uniform in it for sale, or *any other* realistic football kit for the current generation, so I really couldn't make much use out of the set. But that directly relates to the utility of the product as intended, so is a bit different to just "I like that character/hair/etc".
As I've said many times before when this topic came up, the one and only job of a promo render is to showcase the item for sale. Honestly, all I'm looking at when I see promo renders is how the item itself looks. While I would encourage vendors to list all the assets used in promos, I completely disagree that they should be required to.
I fully agree with this.
What I want to see is the item I might purchase, to understand how I can see it useful.
LOL !!!!
Love it, love it, love it... :)
Agreed. I try to keep up with products at most stores to see if there are new things I can use (I also work 50+ hrs a week), so I rarely need to ask what hair, dress or character is this in a promo. I never try to recreate a promo image. I might get inspiration from time to time, but that is it.
I am a commercial 3D creator in other areas and one of the main reasons I don't become a PA here is I hate the non creative part, readmes, packaing, promos, etc and the last thing I want to do is track down the items I used for the promo images and list them because someone doesn't want to do the work themselves. 7 times out of 10, when an item search question comes up here in the forums I actually go look for the item at the various stores and it usually takes less then 6 minutes to find it
A business is owned by its customers.
to a point, but when a customer becomes entitled and demanding, it's time to kick them out.
That's an oversimplified, metaphorical, and obviously false absolute.
If you owned a business and you had a tiny minority of customers who walked in everyday and yelled "TELL ME WHERE YOU BOUGHT YOUR SHELVING UNITS, OR I WALK!", you'd quickly wish they actually would take a hike rather than shouting that repeatedly (but occasionally buying something anyway).
As is, Daz - who, let's not forget, actually have the store traffic and sales conversion figures - are clearly willing to bet that the number of customers that will actually follow up on such an ultimatum is far less damaging than the number of vendors they'd lose by enacting policies about the listing of promo assets. You're not going to have happy customers if you don't have suppliers, because without suppliers, you have no products to sell.
This ^
I didn't say "a customer", I said "customers", collectively.
Have you ever looked at VOGUE Magazine? On it's editorial fashion pages (the non-advertising pages), when there is a page with a photo of a model in an outfit, they have credits for EVERYBODY and EVERYTHING that went into making that image - including the designer underwear the model is wearing which you can't see because it's covered by the outfit, and the PERFUME the model is supposedly wearing which you can't smell, and the dog groomer who brushed the poodle. Or take a look at the hundreds of credits that roll at the end of a feature film. Even on non-union films made in states or countries where there's no mandate for union crews. Crediting contributors to an image or moving image is important for everyone involved. You've got the most famous actress in the world at your microphone on the red carpet and you have time to ask her ONE question, more often than not, the question is "who designed your dress."
For Vogue, the magazine is the only product. The magazine exists to provide that sort of information, to be the hype train, the taste-maker, whatever you want to call it. PAs have enough to do to create and sell their own products. If a PA chooses to provide extra info about assets used in promo renders, that's great! We all appreciate that. If the PA chooses not to do that, that's just how it goes. The PA surely has other, more important things to do.
and again, the stuff Vocue links to is not another fashion magaziine - it is not promoting its competitors.
You can literally see the neural filter box around each head in the promos, so yeah...definitely FaceApp or something similar.
There are a few gallery pics that have amazing smiles that people gawk and fawn over and I'm unconvinced those aren't postwork smiles either. That's fine for doing art...I've used neural filters to help with wonky mouths too, but I would never try and pass it off as a "yup, this definitely in daz!" smile.