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Hi roger,
First I’m very happy to see that you manage to have the results you expect in terms of skin look. I’m a bit disappointed that you have an issue with the Genitalia. Indeed, normally, it should be straight forward, and here is the normal procedure :
Please note that I also noticed that a function that I thought non case sensitive may be now case sensitive, and in this case the wet base bump map transfer will fail it you use map 1 for the wet look, the wet base bump map will not transfer properly on the genitalia wet base bump map (it is I think the only fail, and I'm gonna patch it, while trying to make it also compatible with daz connect installations in the patch to come).
I just had a look with Michale 8.1, applied points 1 to 3 of the procedure, and it works perfectly. If it does not work for you, can you tell me if you are using a Genesis 8 or 8.1 material (look if your torso surface is named body or torso, it should not be linked to that but one never knows)? Can you tell me what figure you are using?
If it does not work, and only in this case while I try to figure out what is happening for you, another simple procedure you can do is:
a. select your figure body/torso and make : file/save as/shader preset, and in the "three lines of the right" of the shader preset save options popup, choose unchek, uncheck all images.
b. select the genitalia surface and apply the shader you just saved
c. back on the body/torso click on the little image icon of the "Base Color" (the icon of the base color map in the surfaces editor tab), then choose "image editor". Note the image gamma use.
d. the same way, apply the gamma you saw to the "Base Color" map of the genitalia.
e. finally have a look at the maps used for the wet look, and pick the corresponding maps (they have the same name first letters) for the genitalia.
Normally you should not have to do all this, because the script for the genitalia transfer copy the properties, the gamma, and load the images corresponding to the wet look of the figure (except the map 1, for which I must patch the script because of the lower case issue I mentioned before).
Did using the method described points 1 to 3 solve your issue? If not can you tell me if it works using method "a. to e."? For now I had several feedbacks where the genitalia transfer worked as is should, but maybe there is a particular case of figure that I did not saw and which will require that I specifically include it in the transfer, this is why it is important for me to know if using the method described point 1 to 3 works for you.
Thanks for getting back to me! I always use DIM for installations. I tried what you suggested (1-3) but with no success. So I deleted the gens, re-installed them and applied the mats, then the G81WT!!!! but it went black again. I'm using PBR skins (G8M DD Aerys but it doesn't seem to make any difference) and it's a G8.1M character that I'm working on (originally Feng Erwin) although I have had the same problem with many other characters. I had a go at a to e but couldn't find the 'three lines of the right'. So, back to first principles....I loaded a standard G8.1M character (without gens), DD Aerys PBR skins and applied your W&TS G81WT!!!! and a random tan (actually Option 11 level 4 base D). To keep it simple, I installed the gens and their mats and applied the 'transfer to genitalia'....and the same result...blackout. I attach a screen grap but best delete it before the puritans see it!
OK I saw your image. I'm going to buy the figure you mentioned, DD Aerys, to see if I have the same issue. I never saw that even during my development stages, so I'm really curious...
Perfect, I manage to reproduce your issue and I have a clue where it comes from : In my script, when the figure uses a Genesis 8 UV set (as in your case), I am looking for the values on the "torso" surface and not on the "body" surface (for compatibility). On all the figures with a Genesis 8 UV set I had tested, even 8.1 figures, it worked, but it seems that for this and a few other figures, this is not the case (anymore? Never been the case?). I found a way to solve this, instead of analyzing UV sets, I work on figure names, but what is annoying me is that there was necessarily a reason that I used UVset instead of figure names to determine the surface to copy the properties from (but I don’t remember this reason, and this annoys me a lot!).
Well anyway, try this new script for the genitalia transfer, this is patched with another way to determine from which surface the properties must be copied, for me, it solved the black surface issue, I hope it will solve it for you too, let me know if it works, on my side I'm gonna try to remember why I used the UVset instead of the figure name but it was probably important...
This script is the new transfer to gentalia which should solve your problem, you can in theory place it in any content library you want.
Thanks a lot for letting me know about this bug, it was important to solve that!
Edit : for everybody, I'll submit the update in a reasonable delay, yet I'll have to make the same on the female transfer version too, and make sure the choice I made will not impact other cases of figure.
Many thanks....it worked perfectly!
Glad to know! Thanks again for the bug report!
I wonder if it's possible for WTN81 to work alongside Breast Utilities 2? As far as I know BU2 is using a customised Uber shader.
I used this one one of my favorite characters for Genesis 8.1. It wokred well, except for one problem. It made my character semi-transparent. I tried to find the setting that was making him transparent, but couldn't. After serveral tries, I managed to re-appy the skin texture and render a second image and then I was able to layer the two. But why does it make my character semi-transparent and how do I fix.
It makes the character semi-transparent on the first steop, when you apply the :Applier." I tried it on a new scene.
I also noticed that my character is Genesis 8,1 but uses the Iray Uber shader. Perhaps that has something to do with it. But is there some setting I can change so he won't be transparent? I tried adjusting the cutout. But that seemed to make no difference.
Thanks.
Wow after so many years quiet on this project, you're the first one to report an issue, and this is such a weird phenomenon !
First, in theory, there was a rule for ALL genesis 8.1 figures which is that : PA MUST use PBRSkin as their main shader. Now, I am surprised that Daz accepted an IrayUber shader on a Genesis 8.1 figure. Maybe you bought it from another store? (if it is on Daz Store, can you tell me what figure it is?)
Since Daz Studio software updates can put some handmade shaders in danger (and since I cannot check ALL my products as soon as a Daz Studio update is released), I took the time to check that it went fine on Rosa Maria 8.1, and on the 8.1 base female. I realised that my product had an update I was not aware of (I don't know why, maybe metadata because it's the only thing I'm not involved in). So I tried them before the update, and they worked fine for the tan/tan lines/wet looks. It seems to be the same with the updated version of wet and tanned skins for 8.1.
What can happen from time to time is that a version of DS messes up hand made shaders (via shader mixer), and then in the next update or in another build this is fixed. I use none of the "classical" builds (there are other versions as mentioned in the changelog page), but if it comes from that, in my "future" version I have no issue.
It can come from the IrayUber you have at start. When you use the "apply", actually not only a new shader is applied, but also some maps are transferred from PBRSkin properties to WNT81 shader properties, and some properties values might be adjusted. I have the feeling your main issue is that you start from IrayUber, and this is not optimized for that. If your IrayUber was using furthermore "SSS amount" instead of "SSS color" to set up the SSS it might be even more problematic. If I were you I would try to change the volume settings using low translucency weight (0.5), low transmitted measurement distance (0.1), "brown" transmitted color (with NO component -RGB - at 255) low scattering measurement distance (0.015), and that the SSS mode is chromatic with a color NOT being black or white (mid pink?). Said differently make sure all volume properties are similar to what you have in PBRSkin. Make sure also that your translucency color property is mapped. I think, but I don't have a lot of details to be sure of this, that in your initial figure there is one setting in the translucency/transmission/SSS settings which either does not exist or is probably set up "not as usually" and that the applier cannot "translate" properly. Normally the applier can work on Genesis 8.1 user IrayUber, since it is the case of the "base" Genesis 8.1 males and females. And make aslo sure that the "Refraction Weight" is 0 in your initial shader (even if it should not matter in WNT81).
Eventually if you want to solve this with me, what you can do you can try on another 8.1 figure which would basically use the PBRSkin shader; If it is not transparent, it very probably comes from your IrayUber setting, if it is, it very probably comes from your Daz Studio version.
As far as I remember, Nothing in the WNT shader implied opacity, so there is not reason why the figure should become transparent, except if it comes from volume phenomena. So the first question is : does it work properply with other Genesis 8.1 figure (using PBRSkin, or even on Genesis 8.1 base female, which works for me tonight)?
Thank you for your very detailed response.
The character is Jaimie from Renderosity. He comes as Genesis 8 and 8,1. When you click on the main icon provided, he loads as 8,1 but with the Iray Uber texture. But after reading your response, I went back to check if there was an icon perhaps to load a PBR texture. Turns out there is. It was in a sub-folder marked PBR. Somehow I always over-looked that folder. Until now, I wouldn't have known that I might want to use it. He looked so good as he loads, that I never looked any further.
But I went and applied it and then I ran the applier and did a spot render and he wasn't semi-transparent. Hurray! I'll do a full scene tonight or tomorrow to have a better look. But it looks like loading the PBR texture solves the problem.
Thanks again.
I actually experienced this problem quite a few times but I think it is not a bug or even a problem in itself but it comes down to the used materials. Put the Translucency Weight slider down to zero and the problem should be solved. I guess (but never tried it actually) that the phenomenon won't occur if you use a dedicated translucency map.
@KevinH : I'm happy this solved your problem!
@Laurita : Yes there is obviously something in the volume settings that leads to this behavior when IrayUber shader is basically used (which should in theory not happen). Cutting the translucency weight to 0 will remove all volume phenomena and is a way to get rid off this issue, but will limit the effects of tan and tan lines options. Adding a map (or copying the base color to the translucency if there is no map) could help, but other volume properties should also be checked. If this becomes really problematic I will have a look at how/if I can solve this in the applier script. Thanks for these details.
I apologize if this is dumb question but is it possible to disable the wet map for specific body parts? Like if I wanted a character whose just got out of a pool but never submerged their head?
I've tried zeroing values in the wet and drop layers under head and face. That kind of works but there is still clearly some glistening on the head/face that is there just from the applier.
Sorry for the delay, there is no more notifications... In theory you should be able to disable totally the head and face wet layer. The only modifications made on the wet look come from the two wet layers (the other gloss settings, initially existing in the figure shader are not, if I remember well, modified when you apply the new wet and tanned shader, except maybe if your initial shader is not PBRSkin). If the face is still too shiny after zeroing the strength of two wet layers, then the glistering aspect comes from the other "gloss" settings (already existing in PBRSkin initial shader). In this case, the solutions are very easy (first make sure that the two wet layers of the wet skin shader are zeroed) :
- select head and face surfaces on the figure and go in the surfaces editor tab.
- in the surfaces editor tab, in the "enter text to filter by..." line above all the properties, enter "rough" so that you can see all the "roughness" properties at once. Increase them until the head and face skin is not glistenning. (To be safer you can try then to enter "gloss" and make sure to lower any existing glossiness, but this is rather a general recommendation since I think there is no more glossiness property in the wet shader)
- if it worked, great, if not, come back here, we'll have a deeper look.
I’m having a problem with Wet & Tanned for G8.1 that looks similar to what rogerjhardy100 reported, but the updated material copy script is not working for me. Worse, the problem does not reproduce every time. If I get a successful figure and save the geograft as a wearable, though, it consistently reloads with the problem.
So to reproduce:
1. Load a Genesis 8.1 female figure with an Iray skin that has been converted already to use the WNT81 shader.
2. Attempt a geograft on that figure that overlays existing body parts. (I have not tested geografts that add additional body parts, e.g. horns or tails.)
The geograft shader will look correct in the surface properties, but will render as extremely dark. Even if all textures are removed, all channels disabled except diffuse, it stays near-black.
I think I have never tested on a geograft overlaying body parts, because I think I don't own such a geograft.
I know I always managed to have it working on geograft "adding body parts", such as genitalia, horns, tails, but indeed, I had no idea geograft would also "overlay" on body parts. Well let's try to see if/how we can solve this. I will have several questions for you (it may take several questions/answers sessions to see what can or cannot be done, because I've never been asked that, so this is the first time I'll be studying this case of figure):
1) Could you try on a geograft which adds a geometry such as a genitalia? It would allow me to check that you are doing the right procedure : if it workst the problem comes from the type of the geograft you use, if it doesn't it will probably be a methodology issue.
2) Could you tell me which type of geograft you use (give me a product name - and if you prefer or if it comes from another store, you can send me the product name by MP)
We are going to start with only those two questions now, but don't worry I have many other questions if those two ones don't allow us to solve this.
The product I initially identified is Breastacular by Meipe on Renderotica. However, the problem reproduces for other grafts wich add body parts, but only for this character. I can add the same items to another character in the same scene without a problem.
New data point. I restored the figure to the PBRSkin material and re-applied Wet and Tanned. All WNT81 surfaces became excessively dark when rendered. If I then reapply a saved material preset with WNT81 shaders, they remain excessively dark.
My process for creating the figure's skin:
Start from SASE Islaya from Renderosity (for G8). Convert shaders to PBRSkin; re-enable Transmission, Dual Lobe Specular, Bump, SSS, etc. Apply detail from HS Skin Detail Resources. Everything up to this point is normal; I'm able to apply the geografts and copy shaders from them as expected.
Ok don't worry right now about the skin being too dark if you restore and reapply the WNT81. It can happen if you had a mistake before or if a property has been set to undefined or null - Daz Studio hates that and can go crazy. There is no way to "break" the shader since it is built from the shader mixer (and as long as Daz does not break the bricks in Daz Studio this is fine, and be sure I'll have tons of messages if it happened one day). In this case you must: close your Daz Studio, restart Daz Studio, reload your figure, apply your PBRSkin, save, render (or Iray Preview). If the render is fine, apply the WNT81 converter, even if it is made for 8.1, it has a huge compatibility with 8 figures. So, now it is converted, do an Iray Preview or render. If you have a super dark skin - black - after applying and not before applying, try to apply one of the full tan presets (one as pale as possible preferentially) to see if it is a shader "core" issue or a shader "properties configuration" issue.
For the rest :
So let's sumarize, and tell me if anything I write here is wrong, it is important for me to know where I must investigate (You can answer for instance : 1.yes, 2.no "only Genesis 8", 3. yes, etc..) :
1. You already managed to have the WNT81 working on your figures Genesis 8 or 8.1, WITHOUT geograft.
2. You already managed to have this specific geograft you mention working with some WNT81 Genesis 8 or 8.1 after script conversion on the geograft, and you can save and reload the scene without issue (but not save the geograft as wearable)
3. You have a specific figure for which the geograft conversion fails, and this is a Genesis 8 figure, starting with an Iray Uber Skin
4. if yes at question 3.) : This figure can be converted properly to WNT81 if you start from a new scene (with DS restarted) THEN applying Wet and tanned skins on the figure. And everything begins to work weirdly as soon as you apply the geograft and the conversion script.
So depending on your answers : if you never managed to convert your specific geograft, it comes from the geograft conversion script and I will ask you a shader preset (just the file, not the images) of your geograft so that I can see how I can patch the converter. If the problem happens with a specific figure, I'll have to determine what is different in this figure to try to include this specific case in the conversion(s).
In the meantime, what you can do if the geograft conversion fails : you undo, remove the geograft, save your scene, close and reopen DS, and reload your scene (fundamental to get rid of any "undefined" value which could be kept otherwise). You save the WNT81 figure torso or body (depending on the generation) as a shader preset. You load your geograft and apply the shader saved to the surface of your geograft, and you change manually the maps for your geograft (never remove maps, just replace the torso ones with the geograft ones). This is basically what the script does : apply the same shader and preserve the original maps. You also must, manually, change the gamma of the base color of the geograft so that it is the same one as the torso (surface editor, base color, image property). If once you do this, the geograft goes too dark, this is a Daz Studio geograft/figure issue, and I won't be able to solve it. It the geograft does not get too dark, then I'll have to patch the geograft conversion script for this specific case of figure (and I'll need more inputs from you). But remember that the geograft UVs will not be the same as the UVs made for the genitialia, so the best option is to take the torso wet maps to use them on your geograft, instead of the genitalia wet maps the script applies.
I'm waiting for your answer and inputs to see how I can go further. Depending on your answers, if necessary, I'll write and share a debug script which will analyze your figures and surfaces to give me more clues.
1. Correct.
2. Correct.
3. The figure is a Genesis 8.1 Female figure. It starts with an IRay Uber skin, is converted to a PBRSkin (to add detail), and then converted to WNT81. it is using the Genesis 8 compatible UVs, and the skin was originally for Genesis 8, not 8.1.
4. Correct. Except.
I tried to work around things by completely recreating the scene. The scene contains an environment and three figures, A, B, and C. Figure C is our problem. Figure B has WNT81 shaders saved; Figure A is IRay Uber.
Figure C shows as all black.
In this workflow, everything works as expected.
Also, the UV for the geograft is intended to use the torso (or body) & arm textures from the figure. So is it necessary to adjust the gamma, since it is using the same texture used on the rest of the figure?
Ok the question I can easily answer is : no, it is not necessary to adjust the gamma since the maps are used on the rest of the figure.
The black shader can occur when a property is "undefined", which would mean that the conversion script could not read this property on the figure before conversion (and this property is supposed to exist). I know sometimes artists can do strange things on their figures such as renaming the bones or surfaces, and this can be critical for conversions. For instance, if, in this figure, the "Torso" was renamed "torso", it would be enough for the conversion to fail (no reference surface found for conversion).
OK, so the real initial problem is first on the figure itself. Normally 8.1 figures are supposed to automatically come with PBRSkins, but on some stores testers might have "more cool" rules. Can you try this :
1. in a fresh Daz Studio session (close DS, reopen DS)
1. in a scene using ONLY the figure which is problematic, with no outfit, no other figure, etc,
2. try to apply directly the WNT81 converter on the initial Iray Uber skin, without your PBRSkin conversion. I'd just like to remove your conversion and add detail step from the process to see if it could come from that, and normally my conversion script supports Iray Uber as a starter shader (but this may require a bit more ajdustments after conversion).
If the figure turns black, can you, for the initial shader screen capture the surfaces editor pane (so that I see the list of surfaces of the figure). Just to be sure : this is a "8.1" figure using "8" SASE Islaya materials that's it?
edit : I think remember, in the conversion, I check if the UV used is genesis 8.1 or genesis 8 uv, so that I can determine if I use the torso or the body as the reference surface. If the UV is not a standard UV it can also be an issue. When the skin is black, you can also eventually screen capture me the properties (colors, values) of the "Body" or "Torso" surface after the conversion, so that I can see if somewhere there is a NaN or something like that...
edit : Gee... Sorry I just see that you have a procedure that works (I thought both failed), and when I see the procedure that works and the procedure that does not I don't understand what can be the issue. I'll make test on my side, but the way it is scripted, it should be impossible that the other figures interfere... Maybe it is linked to Daz Studio itself... The good news it that you found a procedure, so, somehow the problem is solved, the bad news is that I feel a bit clueless now... On my side I generally work on the figure standalone, eventually in its environment, and I add all the rest at the end, but I'll give new tests (I have to finish my next project first).
The figure hasn't been edited at all; I understand how that can break things. Everything seems to work properly as long as the figure is the only thing in the scene at the time the shaders are applied. My normal workflow is for sequential images, reposing as I go. I'd add the geografts when they become relevant (in this case, when someone removes their top). I have not yet tested whether I can save the grafted figure as a scene subset and have it reload properly, or whether I can reload the grafts as a wearable. I'll let you know what I find.
Thanks a lot for your patience and thanks a lot for let me know. I'll make some tests with several dressed figures in a full environment to see if I manage to replicate this. If I manage, this will be fixed if it comes from me, but not if it comes from Studio...
There is a small typo in the window that'll pop-up when someone who shall not be named is trying to use the G8M script with a G8F figure:
(I checked the window which will pop-up if someone is trying to launch the G8F script on a G8M figure and as far as I can see, there isn't a typo here)
Wow, I had not seen this one!!! Thanks for letting me know.... Well, I don't think I'll make an update only for this "double a" in a message poping after a user error, and which does not make the message confusing... But if I need to update it one day, I will include this modification in the update for sure!
It's a pretty minor mistake (one that didn't feel like it warranted opening a ticket with Daz and one that, like you said, doesn't require an update just for it), one I'm surprised I saw after not seeing that I opened the Genesis 8 Male folder in my content library and not the Genesis 8 Female folder
I understand. Most often I copy the message boxes from one script to another (because I prefer more time on new script parts and less time on "blabla"). This time, when I wrote the text of my message box, I must have been distracted by something, and when I tested it, I did not noticed the maale !!!