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As a minor correction, I'm pretty sure I was the first to post one, the day after the 3060 launched (I was a cheeky sod who beat the bots on launch day): https://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/comment/6521701/#Comment_6521701
I did another bench a bit later on with a more powerful system underneath it*, but the results were fairly consistent: https://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/comment/6552846/#Comment_6552846
* My purchasing strategy had been to get the card first and install it in my then current system while I designed/ordered the rest of the system, because I didn't want a brand new system sitting around for months with no card, and people had already been having problems getting them. I didn't quite anticipate the possibilty I would buy one on day one.
But yes, my results were broadly consistent - a bit over 8 iterations a second on that benchmark.
While rendering speed is certainly important, VRAM is the ultimate cap on your performance. If you run out of VRAM, your GPU will NOT render the scene. So you can have the fastest GPU on the planet, but if it runs out of VRAM, it is a paper weight for your scene. This why VRAM is super important since you cannot change it. RAM is also important, too, and yes, you need a lot more RAM than VRAM, this is a proven fact.
But it all depends on just how big your scene are. Maybe you don't actually need that much RAM! If you do small renders with like one or two people, then maybe you don't need the 12GB card, and you can get a faster one. But if you have plans on building some decent size scenes, you will need both RAM and VRAM to get the job done. 16GB is ok to start with, but you will very likely need more very quickly, so make sure to build your PC in a way that gives you the ability to upgrade the RAM later on. Like if you get 16GB now, make sure you get large RAM modules so you can have empty slots to add more RAM in the future, instead of needing to replace all the RAM, that would cost a lot more, so plan ahead.
Those are really the prime components. Everything else you can slack on a bit to save cash (well, maybe not the power supply, it needs to be up to the task, too). It would probably would be good to have a CPU that can handle Daz itself, if you do build larger scenes, Daz Studio will bog down on old and slow CPUs. Sadly Daz is single threaded, so having a lot of cores does not not really help. The good news is that you don't need the best CPU, either, just something that is good enough. You want to put that money into the GPU.
Right now the GPU market is coming back down to earth after being totally insane for 18 months. Prices are dropping fast on a lot of cards, and if you can wait a little you may be rewarded if money is tight. 3060s are still hovering around $500 when they should be less than $400. And the next generation is right around the corner. I just wrote in the bench thread how the past 2 generations the 2060 and then 3060 can render Iray about as fast as the previous generation's best GPU. So if Nvidia repeats this feat again, the future 4060 might end up being as fast as the 3090 is right now, which is pretty wild to think about. Leakers have been suggesting that the 4000 series will be a big leap, and I think that is going to happen. But the big unknown is exactly when and what the pricing will be. The 4060 may not come out first, either, as the 3060 was about 5 months after the 3090, 3070, and 3080 all released. However, if the 4000 series is that big of a leap that we expect it to be, wow, it would be one heck of a leap. A 3090 is more than twice as fast as a 3060 at Iray. We are talking 19 iterations to 8. So a scene with a 3090 is not just a few minutes faster, if this is a big scene, you can be saving actual hours of rendering time. And that kind of power could be coming to a 4060 in a few months. I happen to own both a 3060 and a 3090, so I can attest to the difference in performance.
But waiting is no doubt a gamble and could potentially backfire if the market ends up blowing up because of something like crypto. Ultimately you have to decide what makes sense for you to do. Everybody is different.
I am wondering then, if the 3060 12gb card might be the sweet spot right now. Slickdeals was showing $488 for that card.
I want a 3090... but by the time I can get a founders at MSRP, I am sure the 40xx will be out and the cycle repeats itself.
I just wish that Nvidia had gone 12/16/24 GB cards instead of the 8/10.. for the bulk of their product stack. My Guess is that the 40xx will have different memory configs... at least, more daz friendly memory configs.
The 3060 12GB doesn't require selling your kidney, the next cheapest with the same amount of VRAM (or more) is the A4000 16GB at around 2.5 times the price.
Rendering speed is about the same or bit better than "The King of the hill" of the previous generation, RTX 2080 Ti. The 3080 may be 50% faster, but then it comes down to; Are you willing to pay $1000 USD extra to get the rendering done in 10 minutes instead of 15 minutes?...
the only thing I can use if I can ever get my hands on one, is a card with 2 slots not 3, otherwise I might as well buy a whole new computer.
That will not be happening for a few years.
A few people here have had 2080Ti's they no longer needed I would have bought but alas the UPS is not shipping to Australia so no point even trying.
So at this point I needn't bother, I may try buying a better CPU though.
Wish DAZ would implement Filament better as that is what I am mostly using.
Seems I made everrything right with my new RTX 3060 12 GB and 64 GB System RAM.
I've neen upgrading from a system with a GTX 1070 8 GB and 32 GB system RAM
The render speed is not that jaw dropping faster now, but signicicant and I just wanted more VRAM and a quicker CPU for handling larger scenes.
Now I have to finish what I started and therefore I have to buy two more memory banks equal to the ones I already own, thus reaching 32GB.
Although they are enough, in any case they will have to be enough.
Should I buy a power supply of 650 watts or greater when choosing the 3060?
Nothing wrong with under-clocking, reduce power and heat and potential increase the lifespan of the card; perhaps even save a little cash.
From what I can tell, 650w is generally sufficient for a 3060. Extreme OC people might run into trouble with that, but I don't think we'll find many of those in this crowd. If you plan to upgrade to a more powerful card, you might want a more powerful PSU as a future-proofing measure. I went with a 650w PSU for my build, and I'm not anticipating a problem. Dell people have told me a 550w PSU is actually good enough.
I'm willing to ship my 2080ti through the mail. I know selling stuff to Australia is a bit of a pain from the recievers' side. PM me if you're intersted.
I looked at Best Buy and at their prices the 3070 8GB they have at $799 is the best bang for the buck that's available locally. However at this stage I'm determined to wait for the RTX 4000 series & if it's the same that series as last series, I'll just buy the cheapest 3050 that comes along open box and bide time again until a high end 4090 comes along.
My grandson's system has an RTX 3060 12gb, a Ryzen 5600x, and a 600W power supply. It runs very well. Mine has an RTX 3070ti, a Ryzen 5800x, and a 700W power supply. It also runs very well. A 650W power supply should be OK.
I probably cannot justify the expenditure anyway but I know for a fact shipping stuff from the US is pretty dire at the moment so I am not even trying
I am sure there are plenty in your country that can contact you
thanks anyway
Expectations are that VRAM configs will go up next gen, yes. None of this is confirmed, so take that with a grain of salt. But Nvidia did release the 3060 with 12GB, and they planned on bumping up other tiers until they realized that their cards were selling so fast they didn't need to even worry about giving other cards more. They did eventually give the 3080 12GB, but they had plans for 20GB versions and a 3070 with 16GB. There are reports of packing boxes made with these numbers, they were that close to becoming real. But as market got crazier and crazier, they didn't need to do anything. They took over an entire year to release a 3050, again because they didn't need to until recently.
But things are changing. It should be a given that the 4060 will have 12GB like the 3060 does, and the 4070 probably will, too. The 4080 should have 12 or 16, and the top card will once again have 24 like the 3090. Competition will be a lot stiffer for Nvidia next generation, many people expect AMD to even take the performance crown at the top of the stack. So Nvidia would be forced to fight back with some kind of actual value, something they haven't had to do in forever. They will need to have 16GB on their 4080 or it will look pathetic against a faster AMD card that has 16. With the 3080 they could argue it was faster, if only a little, though the ray tracing was indeed far better than AMD's. But AMD is going to be hitting all fronts next generation. If this really happens (and that does remain to be seen,) Nvidia will have to do something. This is why leaks say we will have such power hungry cards next generation. Nvidia is overclocking to the moon to get every bit of performance they can.
..bugger, unscrupulous resellers and miners messed everything up. I would have definitely put my name on the EGVA list for a 16 GB 3070 if it were a reality.
Outrider, your posts always make me wonder where you get your information
I also wonder about the forthcoming AMD cards. The top of their current generation is competitive, but they don't have raytracing cores. Those seem to be more important these days. Also, historically, AMD has had release-day supply issues - "Here's our new card. There are only 100 in existence right now. Good luck getting one." That gets resolved, but the NVidia cards remain more desirable because of the raytracing issue. And while DS relies so heavily on Iray for rendering, AMD cards are not a great option, are they?
With respect to NVidia 4k series, overclocking is not better than more circuits. Overclocking pushes up both cooling and power requirements while reducing the life of the card. The 3090 ti seems like a bad joke or an IQ test for the customers.
Depends on how you approach it. The easy way is to reduce the maximun power target slider and let the card worry about the rest. The slightly more involved way is to set up a frequency/power curve in MSI Afterburner or similar software. Once you've found the sweet spot there shouldn't be any stability issues.
I've only just picked DS back up but I've been gaming and rendering on an undervolted and overclocked 3090 for the last 16 months without issue.
If you undervolt and reduce the clocks you can save a significant amount of power usage and run cooler and quieter for a small loss in performance. On my card in a heavy gaming workload the card alone will draw 300w undervolted and underclocked vs 400w with the power target raised to max and overclocked. The difference in performance is about 10%.
If you go 3080ti then budget for a decent power supply. My total system power draw is just short of 500w while rendering but 3080/3090 cards are known for transient power spikes. I'd want a good quality 750w psu as a minimum, I'm using an Asus 850w (rebranded seasonic unit) with good results. Also look for a card with good cooling, especially for the vram and consider if your case can get the heat from the card out and get fresh air in. A 3090 in a case with poor airflow spins up the fans until it sounds like a hoover.
A 3080 Ti shouldn't even be considered for a Daz or 3D artist, price wise you're so close to a 3090 but with only half of the VRAM.
At current prices, it's not that close. It's ~$1500 for 3080 ti and ~$2k for 3090. If prices do indeed come down to MSRP, it's still a $400 spread. Some folks will say "so what?" others will say, 3090 is still out of budget." If Daz is not all you do, 3080 ti is still a powerhouse card. As far as Blender is concerned, there is no difference between the two cards. As usual, YMMV. Also, you must double your RAM to 128GB to properly support 24GB VRAM for IRAY. That's sort of a hidden cost, an extra $225-$300 to get the most out of the 3090.
The EVGA site store (www.evga.com) has the EVGA GeForce RTX 3090 FTW3 ULTRA GAMING, 24G-P5-3987-KR in stock right now for $1919. Limit TWO per household, so they must have significant stock. Still over the original MSRP, but better than almost $3000. Newegg has 12GB 3080s for $1150 to $1700 today.
Agreed.
Hell, I'd rather pay extra for https://www.scan.co.uk/products/pny-nvidia-a5000-24gb-gddr6-w-ecc-8192-cuda-256-tensor-278-tflops-sp-542-tflops-rt-2222-tflops-tenso
... Although there are 3090s and 3090tis in stock from my usual vendor.
Still see them for $1800. That's how much I got my first 3090 for. IMO, if you can afford to spend $1500 on the video card alone you can afford another $300-400 more. For the overall system price percentage is like sales tax, and you're so close to so much more.
Going from a 12 GB video card to a 24 GB card is just simply awesome. I somewhat frequently hit the 12 GB ceiling on the old card being cognizant of the limit, with the 3090 it's rare. It's usually only when I have a scene that's kind of large, where I have multiple render windows kept open for comparison.
Also, you don't need 128 GB for a 3090, I have 64 GB, and have never run out of system RAM yet rendering and have almost filled the 3090's 24 GB.
ETA: Heck, even the popular gaming hardware reviewers said the 3080 Ti's price wasn't worth it at launch and you may as well get a 3090 and you don't need 24 GB VRAM for gaming.
..
I did. Amazing card. Worth the money, at least for me.
There's also the cost of effectively cooling the vram on the back of the 3090 to consider. I bought a 3090 fe at 1400ukp and it's a beast of a card but it's also a sod to cool if you want to keep noise at a reasonable level. I ended up spending another 550ukp to watercool mine.
If I was in the market now I'd be split between wait to see what the 4xxx series offers, buy a 3080ti or 12gb 3080 and work to the 12gb vram limit or go for a 3090ti where all the vram is on the same side of the card as the cooler. Another option would be to buy a 3060 and wait to see what next gen brings. I wouldn't buy another 3090.
I saved a tutorial on underclocking with MSI Afterburner. That seems like the way to go, yes. Thanks, it's good to hear that instability shouldn't be a problem.
And I just dug into my storage and discovered a 1000W EVGA PSU, purchased 2 years ago! My memory is muddled, although it's not been a good 2 years, so no surprise I guess.
Gator:
Keeping electric bills down is important to me. A jump from 350W to 450W, even underclocked, would be significant at my income. Worse if I try short animations.
The 3080 Ti would already be a massive hit to my savings. I just feel that cards below at least a 3080, are too much smaller to justify THEIR hit on my savings. This is NOT an easy decision for me. I'm very low income and not in great health. This is my last chance for some enjoyable, productive time on this increasingly depressing old planet. I'm fighting for this.
The scenes I do are small. I'm not an artist - don't have that talent. But speed in rendering is important. I tell jokes and stories with those scenes. I've promised to help an author by providing small image inserts for her children's books. In the past, I edited out many of my larger props' geometry and saved those sections for future uses. Believe me, I'm addicted to speed...
Wait, let me rephrase that...
...a standard 2 slot card with a lower TDP. Not being a gamer that would be my choice if I had the resources.
As to system memory usage it depends on several different factors, however, texture files are tend to be the major culprit. So if you have a lot of 4K textures in a busy scene it could take between 3 - 4 times the VRAM I think someone here mentioned they were encroaching on x5. True there is always optimisation but in a very involved scene, that can take a fair amount of time to perform to the point brute force becomes the way to go.
I upgraded my system to a Ryzen 3 3900x before the pandemic, and was awaiting the Nvidia 3xxx cards to upgrade from my GTX1060 6gb.
Well... I still am using that GTX, cause I am a cheapskate and refuse to pay over MSRP... I had my sights set on whatever 20+ GB Founder's card was available.. and in this generation, my only option is the 3090.
I am really tempted to get the 3060 12gb card now... and wait to see what is in store for the 4xxx... Roumors have it that the 4060 will have 3090 performance... Regardless, if history repeats and 4xxx are like rockinghorse poop, I'll still be able to chug along with the 3060.
I just wish Daz had a legitimate AMD-able alternative to iray so that I'd have more options of what video card to buy (and yes, I know there are render solutions outside of daz)
History repeating, it will be January 2023 before the 40xx cards can be utilized for Iray rendering...
The wait wasn't that lonmg last time, as I recall, though it was longer before support for the RTX features was added.