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Show Daz that Carrara users are a market worth supporting! How many Product Pages do you have?

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  • nDelphinDelphi Posts: 1,862
    edited June 2015

    Tim_A said:

    Carrara Pro: $65

    If there was strong demand for Carrara Pro, it wouldn't be priced at that level.

    Also, there are other less costly options in the market today, including open source software. All giving paid for products a run for their money.

    Post edited by nDelphi on
  • Philemo_CarraraPhilemo_Carrara Posts: 1,175
    edited December 1969

    nDelphi said:

    Wishful thinking at this point, I believe. It's clear to me that DAZ 3D is moving to industry standards and so many unbiased render engines are coming on to the market that keeping a nonstandard render engine alive is not economically practical anymore. Most of these render engines, like LuxRender are advancing and many of the stuff that can be done with the Carrara render engine will be available in these engines as well. Engines like iRay will get better and better, and they really are easier to get most of one wants. And they are getting fast and faster. LuxRender just got a significant boost for CPU only rendering. I just saw a test and the speed was 22 mins (old code) to 1.49 minutes (new code) per 100 samples, as compared to the older LuxRender code.

    Carrara and DAZ Studio are great for scene composition and then we have the option to send that to Octane, LuxRender, and iRay. I think this is the future. This is why we see DAZ 3D working on getting Genesis to work in Carrara and not much else.

    We also have options for much better modelers. Again, why continue working on the modeler when you have so many on the market that are keeping up with the standards, and DAZ doesn't have to spend resrources on their's with fewer and fewer customers for them.

    Am I crazy or do I make sense?

    http://www.daz3d.com/forums/viewreply/842469/

    http://www.daz3d.com/forums/viewreply/844164/

    http://www.daz3d.com/forums/viewreply/840109/

    You are actually making sense.
    A 3D workflow can be a string of different, efficient, specialized software or one suite to do it all. (The renderer is a piece in that workflow).
    As thing go in the software industry, the trend can move from one side to another.

    The very question is whether Daz is willing to support a fully fledge 3D suite or is happy enough with a "make art" app to render content.
    I don't know if there is a market for such a suite. Investment to target the pro market seems to me a bit high for a company like DAZ. Are there enough hobbyists willing to pay a small fee to get one ? How much can they invest and will they get get a return ?

    I love Carrara but I must admit that a private company is there to make a profit, so, if they can't find a viable business plan for Carrara, let's be it.

    What I would like is for Daz management to have a (publicly) clear policy toward Carrara. Otherwise, we are reduced to conjectures. For now, Carrara seems to be on a "keep the light on" status. If they don't make an announcement that G3 will be supported (even with a "DAZ soon" :-) delay), one could infer that we're changing status to less than that.

  • 3drendero3drendero Posts: 2,026
    edited December 1969

    1) 13
    2) Carrara 8.5 Pro
    3) Yes

  • siocsioc Posts: 299
    edited December 1969

    49
    Daz Studio 4.8
    Yes

    Wanted to do more carrara but I was already used to DS and too much not working things in Carrara since Genesis XX.
    So much good things in Carrara and also in DS but why not do the necessary to merge them or at least make content compatible?

    Hexagon is on infinite freeze. Carrara 8.5 didn't gave me what I wanted, no news of the v9 (you remember it was suppose to be released 'soon') and now no even bad support for G3...

    I agree if they stop dev Carrara, at least tell us, i can understand the why but I hate being kept in the dark.

  • DiomedeDiomede Posts: 15,182
    edited December 1969

    1) 90
    2) Carrara 8.5 Pro
    3) Yes

  • MiloMilo Posts: 511
    edited December 1969

    Philemo said:
    nDelphi said:

    Wishful thinking at this point, I believe. It's clear to me that DAZ 3D is moving to industry standards and so many unbiased render engines are coming on to the market that keeping a nonstandard render engine alive is not economically practical anymore. Most of these render engines, like LuxRender are advancing and many of the stuff that can be done with the Carrara render engine will be available in these engines as well. Engines like iRay will get better and better, and they really are easier to get most of one wants. And they are getting fast and faster. LuxRender just got a significant boost for CPU only rendering. I just saw a test and the speed was 22 mins (old code) to 1.49 minutes (new code) per 100 samples, as compared to the older LuxRender code.

    Carrara and DAZ Studio are great for scene composition and then we have the option to send that to Octane, LuxRender, and iRay. I think this is the future. This is why we see DAZ 3D working on getting Genesis to work in Carrara and not much else.

    We also have options for much better modelers. Again, why continue working on the modeler when you have so many on the market that are keeping up with the standards, and DAZ doesn't have to spend resrources on their's with fewer and fewer customers for them.

    Am I crazy or do I make sense?

    http://www.daz3d.com/forums/viewreply/842469/

    http://www.daz3d.com/forums/viewreply/844164/

    http://www.daz3d.com/forums/viewreply/840109/

    You are actually making sense.
    A 3D workflow can be a string of different, efficient, specialized software or one suite to do it all. (The renderer is a piece in that workflow).
    As thing go in the software industry, the trend can move from one side to another.

    The very question is whether Daz is willing to support a fully fledge 3D suite or is happy enough with a "make art" app to render content.
    I don't know if there is a market for such a suite. Investment to target the pro market seems to me a bit high for a company like DAZ. Are there enough hobbyists willing to pay a small fee to get one ? How much can they invest and will they get get a return ?

    I love Carrara but I must admit that a private company is there to make a profit, so, if they can't find a viable business plan for Carrara, let's be it.

    What I would like is for Daz management to have a (publicly) clear policy toward Carrara. Otherwise, we are reduced to conjectures. For now, Carrara seems to be on a "keep the light on" status. If they don't make an announcement that G3 will be supported (even with a "DAZ soon" :-) delay), one could infer that we're changing status to less than that.

    It comes down to stringing us along for a few years now or actually going to support it. I will admit compared to Carrara I find DS cludgy and missing large scene stuff, but if they are going to drop Carrara then get the pain over with. I have spent too much now on tutorials and the like with Carrara but I find myself in a holding pattern Reluctant to continue learning and improving my skills in Carrara or go a different way which may or may not include DS.

  • jcrabbjcrabb Posts: 29
    edited December 1969

    38
    Yes
    Carrara Pro 8.5

  • SileneUKSileneUK Posts: 1,975
    edited June 2015

    22 (almost all of it bought when I changed to Carrara)
    C 8.5 Pro
    Yes

    And also have Rendo and ShareCG and some other odds and sods from recommendations here.

    Great thread idea, and seeing lots of names I don't recognise at all.

    There is a silent majority??!!!

    :ahhh: Silene

    Post edited by SileneUK on
  • CoolBreezeCoolBreeze Posts: 207
    edited December 1969

    Come one everyone, with the movement started in another thread http://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/58029/ , send a support ticket to Daz helpdesk about Carrara not being able to load Genesis 3 / Victoria 7 ... The more everyone chimes in (don't be rude about it) , so Daz can realize there's still a sizable group of people wanting Carrara to work.

  • redhorseredhorse Posts: 83
    edited December 1969

    1) 103 Pages
    2) Carrara
    3) Yes

    Since Carrara really doesn't even support Genesis 2 very well yet, I'm done with DAZ content. When I saw Victoria 7 hit the store, it felt like a crushing blow rather than something to get excited about.

    I've bought a ton of Genesis 2 content based on DAZ's promise to get it working in Carrara and to release Carrara 9 "soon". Although some claim Genesis 2 works OK in the latest version, there are other bugs that make it unusable on my system for the time being. Fool me once...

  • tsaristtsarist Posts: 1,616
    edited December 1969

    1) How many pages do you have in your product library?
    104pgs

    2) What is the primary software that you use with these products?
    Carrara 7Pro

    3) Would you buy Genesis 3 products if they worked in your primary software?.
    YES!!!

  • HeadwaxHeadwax Posts: 10,004
    edited December 1969

    SileneUK said:
    22 (almost all of it bought when I changed to Carrara)
    C 8.5 Pro
    Yes

    And also have Rendo and ShareCG and some other odds and sods from recommendations here.

    Great thread idea, and seeing lots of names I don't recognise at all.

    There is a silent majority??!!!

    :ahhh: Silene

    a silent majority? very true by the look of it.

    thank you to all who have responded so far !

  • mikael-aronssonmikael-aronsson Posts: 576
    edited December 1969

    1) 40

    2) Lighwave (exporting OBJ/MDD from DS)

    3) Maybe, I have way to much G/G2 stuff already so I think I stay with that for a while

    I had to give up on Carrara, I got most of the G2 stuff working but a car file with 2-3 G2 characters with cloth, hair and some background props takes way to much time to save (and load), sometimes I spent 40% of the time saving or "Projection morphs".

  • WandWWandW Posts: 2,837
    edited December 1969

    1. 63
    2. Poser Game Dev
    3. yes

  • booksbydavidbooksbydavid Posts: 429
    edited December 1969

    Jonstark said:
    1. 39 pages (hey, I'm in good company, me and BooksbyDavid have the same number :) )

    Heh, heh. Great minds think alike.

  • BrianP21361BrianP21361 Posts: 812
    edited December 1969

    1) 23

    2) Carrara

    3) yes

  • IamArtistXIamArtistX Posts: 119
    edited December 1969

    27
    Carrara
    doubtful

    I have said for a long time that daz doesnt care about Carrara and its users, and have been threaten by the mods because of it, nice to see others speaking up about it :)

  • MarkIsSleepyMarkIsSleepy Posts: 1,496
    edited June 2015

    1> 106 pages

    2> Carrara

    3> Maybe/Probably but not as much as I did for ealier figures; I bought A LOT of G2M/G2F stuff that I still haven't used in any renders and I've been making more of my my own stuff lately. I haven't seen any "must have" items for Genesis 3, just rehashes of the same items I already have for gen 4 through gen 6 figures and I can't really see the advances in bends or facial expressions that everyone is talking about - it looks the same to me, or so close that I could easily match it with with the liquify and warp tools in Photoshop and a gen 6 render.

    Post edited by MarkIsSleepy on
  • rampart_1576840087rampart_1576840087 Posts: 504
    edited June 2015

    This no where near accurate polling.

    Carrara users buy all kinds of Daz3d content, not necessarily dedicated content. Since you can use the daz3d and poser content, import and export back and forth with other applications. Just like everyone else that favors Carrara we are pigeon holed with Daz3d studio content items. There aren't enough dedicated Carrara items so I buy what I can get of Daz3d content and work with those items as best I can.

    I came here in early 2015 and have hundreds ofcontent items mostly daz3d, but the purpose was to acquire content for working within Carrara.

    I make most of my edits of content items in Daz3d studio before migrating them to Carrara. This may not be best practice, but that is what I do. I do make edits within Carrara as well.

    Yes, that is correct.. Carrara should not be ignored, which it basically has been.
    Big Mistake

    I would appreciate to know if Carrara is being phased out. I would like to start making inquiries for another similar application.
    Don't take this wrong. I don't want to have to start over with any other application. It has taken hundreds of hours, hundreds of dollars and alot of persistence to do what I can with Carrara.

    Note - I am nowhere near what you would call an accomplished user of Carrara.- thank you!

    Daz3d should blame themselves for any lack of interest in Carrara. All they do is promote Daz3d Studio. What is to be expected?


    .

    Post edited by rampart_1576840087 on
  • sukyLsukyL Posts: 251
    edited December 1969

    1) 65
    2) Carrara 8.5 Pro
    3) Yes, especially if there are historical costumes (using G1 & G2 figures and accessories now)

  • DondecDondec Posts: 243
    edited June 2015

    1) 90 (oops correction, 90 in DIM Installed... 27 in my Daz Account Product Library, which I guess is what Head Wax was asking for)
    2) Carrara 8.5
    3) Yes

    Dustrider... TY! ... that was an awesome write up.

    While we're all moaning about about lack of updates lets not forget software is seriously expensive to develop, and I can certainly understand Daz's reluctance to spend money on Carrara when they're not getting serious revenues back.

    Data point: while the high end 3D apps charge upwards of $500/yr for a maintenance contract and a HUGE 1st time outlay, I read rant after rant on the Carrara forums about the minor upgrade charge Daz wanted for the 8.5 upgrade.

    Hmm... even though I might like to, it seemed others could not afford minor upgrade costs, let alone ongoing support for Carrara development.

    I'm sorry, not trying to ruffle anyone's feathers here, but that's the take away I got.

    So anyway, many thanks Head Wax for starting this thread and I hope the data here might help disprove my conclusion.

    - Don

    Post edited by Dondec on
  • AquilaAquila Posts: 19
    edited December 1969

    43
    Carrara 8.5 pro
    Yes

  • HeadwaxHeadwax Posts: 10,004
    edited December 1969

    So anyway, many thanks Head Wax for starting this thread and I hope the data here might help disprove my conclusion.

    pleasure

    and thank you to everyone who has replied on this thread

  • deathmaster_srdeathmaster_sr Posts: 18
    edited December 1969

    1) How many pages do you have in your product library?
    11

    2) What is the primary software that you use with these products?
    Carrara 8.5 Pro

    3) Would you buy Genesis 3 products if they worked in your primary software?.
    YES

    I thought I'd add my two cents in on this thread. The main reason I don't have more pages, in my product library is i'm afraid that whatever i buy will not work in carrara. My last buy (the divine wings) will not even load in carrara. I found a way around it by exporting it from daz3d to carrara, but i should NOT have to. I just don't understand the mindset behind daz, from what i've seen there are a lot who buy more or contribute more to the company as a whole if carrara was side by side with daz3d. Like others I've also bought tutorials to learn and master carrara. personally if they stop updating carrara I'd just keep on using it and once i hit the limit of what i could do, i'd switch at that point to something else.

  • Steve KSteve K Posts: 3,241
    edited December 1969

    deathmaster_sr said:
    ... Like others I've also bought tutorials to learn and master Carrara. personally if they stop updating carrara I'd just keep on using it and once i hit the limit of what i could do, i'd switch at that point to something else.

    Well put. I'd just add that I may never hit the limit of what I can do with Carrara, i.e. short animations have so many elements that the variations seem infinite. Even beyond the many, many animation & modelling features of Carrara, using the vast amount of Poser & Carrara format content available. Special Effects (e.g. Particle Illusion), music (many ways), sound effects (40 DVD's from Digital Juice), etc., etc. I have Poser, Bryce, Groboto, Vue Complete, and even Lightwave, but 95% of the time I work in Carrara, and probably always will. Even without buying more content from DAZ3D (beyond my current 47 pages) - there are many other sources of compatible content. Its a great hobby, very engrossing.

  • PhilWPhilW Posts: 5,145
    edited December 1969

    Steve K said:
    deathmaster_sr said:
    ... Like others I've also bought tutorials to learn and master Carrara. personally if they stop updating carrara I'd just keep on using it and once i hit the limit of what i could do, i'd switch at that point to something else.

    Well put. I'd just add that I may never hit the limit of what I can do with Carrara, i.e. short animations have so many elements that the variations seem infinite. Even beyond the many, many animation & modelling features of Carrara, using the vast amount of Poser & Carrara format content available. Special Effects (e.g. Particle Illusion), music (many ways), sound effects (40 DVD's from Digital Juice), etc., etc. I have Poser, Bryce, Groboto, Vue Complete, and even Lightwave, but 95% of the time I work in Carrara, and probably always will. Even without buying more content from DAZ3D (beyond my current 47 pages) - there are many other sources of compatible content. Its a great hobby, very engrossing.

    I kind of feel similar. There is so much to Carrara already and I keep finding new ways of using it, and you can be creative about working around things that it cannot do natively. I have been using Photoshop CS2 for years, and never felt the need to upgrade because it does everything that I need it to do.

  • MistaraMistara Posts: 38,675
    edited December 1969

    where'd my posts go?

  • frank0314frank0314 Posts: 14,120
    edited December 1969

    They got moved to a thread of there own.

  • Steve KSteve K Posts: 3,241
    edited December 1969

    PhilW said:
    I kind of feel similar. There is so much to Carrara already and I keep finding new ways of using it, and you can be creative about working around things that it cannot do natively. I have been using Photoshop CS2 for years, and never felt the need to upgrade because it does everything that I need it to do.

    PhilW -

    Yes, I've had the same experience with many programs - Lotus 1-2-3 (long ago), Adobe Pagemaker (replaced by InDesign, but still running on an old WinXP laptop), etc. Sometimes I feel like I'm using less than 50% of a program's features, so upgrading would just lower that to less than 40% or so. But with short animations, its not more features I need, but better story-telling techniques - camera angles/motions, lighting "tricks", character blocking/scene movements, etc. I find the series of books "Master Shots" at Amazon helpful - they are illustrated with Poser images, but are about director techniques.

    I still have a lot to learn about Carrara, and I really will finish the rest of your tutorials when I get a break from short animations. :coolgrin:

  • GipsGips Posts: 44
    edited December 1969

    1) 1
    2) Carrara
    3) No, it is too cumbersome and unjustified complicated.

    Thank u DAZ for long time without decorative updates, u save my money and my time.

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