Anyone figured out how to use Geo-Grafting Navel and Nipples for Genesis 9?

AllenArt

nemesis10 said:

PerttiA said:

Of cource "All mats" doesn't apply to nipple and navel geografts, because at the time the hierarchial(?) material presets were done, there were no such geografts and even now, they are PA-made additional product.

1. Exactly, you apply all mats to your figure.
2. You go to the surface tab and copy the texture from the figure's body
3. You apply the default PBR skin shader to the geograft
4. You paste the body texture onto the geograft.

This is pretty much how you use any shader in Daz Studio.  The rule with shaders is that they can only be pasted onto to like surfaces so iray to iray, 3delight to 3 delight, and PBR to PBR since various slots for settings have to be there in the first place.  This separates them from materials where you just click and several scripted things happen and then the texture is applied.

Not to mention that once you do it ONCE you can make a material for the geograft and next time all ya do it apply that material. Done. 

Padone

PrefoX said:

Uber is a PBR shader btw

Unfortunately not. The daz uber shader is very flexible and allows for non-pbr materials. If you want to do realistic materials with the uber shader you have to follow the pbr rules explained in the uber docs, that unfortunately most PAs don't especially for skins and this results in a mess with daz materials in general.

note. The automatic conversion of 3delight materials doesn't follow the pbr rules either, so legacy figures and props will not get realistic materials.

vagans

Is there any way that G9 clothing will conform to nipples without any 3rd party products? I'm astounded that Daz decided that nipples are HD subdivision features rather than geometry, which means that clothes won't conform to nipples AFAICT? 

maikdecker

At the NSFW Rendo a Freebie called "STX Nipples and Navel for Genesis 9" (full name given so searching might be easier) is available, offering geografts for G9 for those who want to try out handling geograft nipples without having to pay for a product.

FSMCDesigns

maikdecker said:

At the NSFW Rendo a Freebie called "STX Nipples and Navel for Genesis 9" (full name given so searching might be easier) is available, offering geografts for G9 for those who want to try out handling geograft nipples without having to pay for a product.

I have a friend that has used this option as well as the paid options at other sites and none of them are 100% when it comes to matching materials unfortunately, even with the included scripts

vagans

I haven't had any issues with this from the Daz store

https://www.daz3d.com/geo-grafting-navel-and-nipples-for-genesis-9

Load graft, match the shader type then copy/paste the Body surface and done

Diff between regular and grafted on V9:

maikdecker

FSMCDesigns said:

maikdecker said:

At the NSFW Rendo a Freebie called "STX Nipples and Navel for Genesis 9" (full name given so searching might be easier) is available, offering geografts for G9 for those who want to try out handling geograft nipples without having to pay for a product.

I have a friend that has used this option as well as the paid options at other sites and none of them are 100% when it comes to matching materials unfortunately, even with the included scripts

Isn't it nice that the product is free, so everbody can just check the useability of it themselves, without having to trust the word of a totally stranger 

Daywalker Designs

Padone said:

@plasma_ring With G9 the textures among figures will only work fine if the PA sculpts exactly in the same position and size following the base figure template, since there's no topology to support the uv map. Unless the PA also provides a custom uv map but in that case the geograft will not work.

If your examples above are based on base geometry morphs of course they will work as before and have nothing to do with HD sculpting. Then again HD sculpting can only be done by PAs since we "normal" users don't get the HD toolkit.

How many characters have been released that have HD morphs available actually have unique UV maps? If the PAs can manipulate the mesh and not have to make custom ones, the fact that they also create HD morphs for the character is irrelevant.

Padone

Daywalker Designs said:

Padone said:

@plasma_ring With G9 the textures among figures will only work fine if the PA sculpts exactly in the same position and size following the base figure template, since there's no topology to support the uv map. Unless the PA also provides a custom uv map but in that case the geograft will not work.

If your examples above are based on base geometry morphs of course they will work as before and have nothing to do with HD sculpting. Then again HD sculpting can only be done by PAs since we "normal" users don't get the HD toolkit.

How many characters have been released that have HD morphs available actually have unique UV maps? If the PAs can manipulate the mesh and not have to make custom ones, the fact that they also create HD morphs for the character is irrelevant.

It is not irrelevant, it is a main difference in technology that affects exporting and rendering as well as system requirements. With G3-G8 HD is optional, with G9 it's not. Then the G9 base mesh may fit your personal needs but it's not designed to craft the human features, so you need HD for that.

Then both HD and geografts have limits over the base mesh, but his is common with G3-G8.

Daywalker Designs

Padone said:

Daywalker Designs said:

Padone said:

@plasma_ring With G9 the textures among figures will only work fine if the PA sculpts exactly in the same position and size following the base figure template, since there's no topology to support the uv map. Unless the PA also provides a custom uv map but in that case the geograft will not work.

If your examples above are based on base geometry morphs of course they will work as before and have nothing to do with HD sculpting. Then again HD sculpting can only be done by PAs since we "normal" users don't get the HD toolkit.

How many characters have been released that have HD morphs available actually have unique UV maps? If the PAs can manipulate the mesh and not have to make custom ones, the fact that they also create HD morphs for the character is irrelevant.

It is not irrelevant, it is a main difference in technology that affects exporting and rendering as well as system requirements. With G3-G8 HD is optional, with G9 it's not. Then the G9 base mesh may fit your personal needs but it's not designed to craft the human features, so you need HD for that.

Then both HD and geografts have limits over the base mesh, but his is common with G3-G8.

I suppose we have reached an impasse on this topic, since you seem to be insisting that you need detailed nipples and navel morphs whether you can actually see those parts in a render or not, whereas I know they aren't critical elements for a render.

plasma_ring

Padone said:

@plasma_ring With G9 the textures among figures will only work fine if the PA sculpts exactly in the same position and size following the base figure template, since there's no topology to support the uv map. Unless the PA also provides a custom uv map but in that case the geograft will not work.

If your examples above are based on base geometry morphs of course they will work as before and have nothing to do with HD sculpting. Then again HD sculpting can only be done by PAs since we "normal" users don't get the HD toolkit.

Yes, if a PA decides for some reason to sculpt those details in HD on a different area of the body, they will conflict with different textures. Anyone who does this would be making a choice to limit the flexibility of their product; while I expect that someone is going to do this at some point, most PAs try to make their work compatible with customization.

However, if all they're doing is moving the vertices associated with the area on the template, the nipples on a different character's texture will still line up with them because the UV does know where those vertices are.

And this has been the way every G9 character released so far works, as well as how these grafts work. They all follow the template. You are talking about a hypothetical issue no one has encountered yet.

Padone

Daywalker Designs said:

I suppose we have reached an impasse on this topic, since you seem to be insisting that you need detailed nipples and navel morphs whether you can actually see those parts in a render or not, whereas I know they aren't critical elements for a render.

It's not just nipples and navel but any anatomy detail you may need, as ribs or detailed muscles for example, the G9 base mesh simply doesn't have the topology for that so you need HD. Then I agree that if your figure is fully dressed the body details may not be needed of course.

Padone

plasma_ring said:

And this has been the way every G9 character released so far works, as well as how these grafts work. They all follow the template. You are talking about a hypothetical issue no one has encountered yet.

The main reason why HD exists is to free the artist from following the topology (aka template) and allow to sculpt any shape. Then I agree that for "normal" humans this is often not necessary, you see it better for creatures with extra features.

plasma_ring

Padone said:

plasma_ring said:

And this has been the way every G9 character released so far works, as well as how these grafts work. They all follow the template. You are talking about a hypothetical issue no one has encountered yet.

The main reason why HD exists is to free the artist from following the topology (aka template) and allow to sculpt any shape. Then I agree that for "normal" humans this is often not necessary, you see it better for creatures with extra features.

The "template" I'm talking about is the landmark overlay found in the Genesis 9 Starter Essentials under Materials. It shows exactly where to place the nipple textures on the UV so that they line up with the default sculpted nipples. That is the texture on the figure in the examples I posted earlier. The grafts that are the actual topic of this thread load exactly where the landmarks suggest PAs put those textures. 

In your initial post in this thread, you seemed to be under the impression that these geografts will only work on a default G9 character because any different custom body shape will move the position of the nipples. That is only the case if a PA has chosen not to follow the guide landmarks Daz has provided, and so far everyone has used them. 

 

PrefoX

Padone said:

PrefoX said:

Uber is a PBR shader btw

Unfortunately not. The daz uber shader is very flexible and allows for non-pbr materials. If you want to do realistic materials with the uber shader you have to follow the pbr rules explained in the uber docs, that unfortunately most PAs don't especially for skins and this results in a mess with daz materials in general.

note. The automatic conversion of 3delight materials doesn't follow the pbr rules either, so legacy figures and props will not get realistic materials.

it is a PBR shader, if you select PBR in the shader

http://docs.daz3d.com/doku.php/public/software/dazstudio/4/referenceguide/interface/panes/surfaces/shaders/iray_uber_shader/start

Padone

plasma_ring said:

The "template" I'm talking about is the landmark overlay found in the Genesis 9 Starter Essentials under Materials. It shows exactly where to place the nipple textures on the UV so that they line up with the default sculpted nipples. That is the texture on the figure in the examples I posted earlier. The grafts that are the actual topic of this thread load exactly where the landmarks suggest PAs put those textures. 

In your initial post in this thread, you seemed to be under the impression that these geografts will only work on a default G9 character because any different custom body shape will move the position of the nipples. That is only the case if a PA has chosen not to follow the guide landmarks Daz has provided, and so far everyone has used them.

Those "templates" are the uv map that's based on topology. Again the HD sculpt is not forced in any way to follow the topology. If you find that the uv map works for a certain HD shape it is just because the PA was very careful to conform to that. Same for geografts.

Padone

PrefoX said:

Padone said:

PrefoX said:

Uber is a PBR shader btw

Unfortunately not. The daz uber shader is very flexible and allows for non-pbr materials. If you want to do realistic materials with the uber shader you have to follow the pbr rules explained in the uber docs, that unfortunately most PAs don't especially for skins and this results in a mess with daz materials in general.

note. The automatic conversion of 3delight materials doesn't follow the pbr rules either, so legacy figures and props will not get realistic materials.

it is a PBR shader, if you select PBR in the shader

http://docs.daz3d.com/doku.php/public/software/dazstudio/4/referenceguide/interface/panes/surfaces/shaders/iray_uber_shader/start

The daz iray uber shader is a pbr shader that can do non-pbr materials. Again, it is not enough to use "pbr metallicity roughness", you also have to follow the pbr rules explained in the docs. For example the "glossy color" does not make sense, for dielectrics it is always white. Not to talk about "pbr specular glossiness" that lets you do any sort of "artistic" effects.

Daywalker Designs

Padone said:

plasma_ring said:

The "template" I'm talking about is the landmark overlay found in the Genesis 9 Starter Essentials under Materials. It shows exactly where to place the nipple textures on the UV so that they line up with the default sculpted nipples. That is the texture on the figure in the examples I posted earlier. The grafts that are the actual topic of this thread load exactly where the landmarks suggest PAs put those textures. 

In your initial post in this thread, you seemed to be under the impression that these geografts will only work on a default G9 character because any different custom body shape will move the position of the nipples. That is only the case if a PA has chosen not to follow the guide landmarks Daz has provided, and so far everyone has used them.

Those "templates" are the uv map that's based on topology. Again the HD sculpt is not forced in any way to follow the topology. If you find that the uv map works for a certain HD shape it is just because the PA was very careful to conform to that. Same for geografts.

That's not how HD morphs work. They are added to an existing base figure morph, even if that morph doesn't get distributed as a standalone morph. At least that's how it was explained to me a few years ago, and I'm sure someone like Oso3D or RawArt could confirm if that's still how it works. So if a base morph follows the UV markers, the HD morph will too.

Padone

The HD morph has two components, a base mesh morph and a HD sculpting over that. The base mesh morph will follow the uv map, the HD sculpting will not, in that you can sculpt any feature anywhere, that's what HD sculpting is for.

PixelSploiting

So far PAs follow the templates and texturing for anatomical details are in standard locations. Last Mousso character comes with geografts for nipples and navel, those geografts come with their own HD morphs and materials and yet still match feminine UV template.

I think PAs know that following those guidelines is making their characters more desirable for kitbashing. No need to be too pessimistic about it.

 

I understand that reliance on projected HD morphs is detrimental for rendering in Blender, though. Because one can't export HD morphs out of Daz to Blender. Although for Blender there's always possibility to alter the geometry to add details if any are needed.

Padone

I'm not pessimistic at all, just explaining how things work. Personally I don't like G9 because HD is hard to export and heavy on resources, plus only PAs can do HD morphs. That's all.

fjb507

Padone said:

The HD morph has two components, a base mesh morph and a HD sculpting over that. The base mesh morph will follow the uv map, the HD sculpting will not, in that you can sculpt any feature anywhere, that's what HD sculpting is for.

 I don't see that it's essentially different. If I, as a non-PA, make a base level morph I'm free to flatten out the existing nipples and make new ones elsewhere provided I'm prepared to make the appropriate changes to the UVs/textures. I'd just have to live with the compatibility issues. Now, since with Genesis 9 there is no base level nipple detail I suppose it would be possible to accidentally put the nipples in the wrong place but that would be immediately obvious once the textures are loaded. So if a PA moves some detail at any level it will be because they had a good reason to do so (probably because they’re making something so non-standard that compatibility isn’t an issue). But in most cases they will just follow the template and put them in the default position. I just can’t see any reason to try repositioning common details like nipples or crease lines in the HD morph when it’s just as easy and more logical and compatible to do it in the base morph. 

Daywalker Designs

fjb507 said:

Padone said:

The HD morph has two components, a base mesh morph and a HD sculpting over that. The base mesh morph will follow the uv map, the HD sculpting will not, in that you can sculpt any feature anywhere, that's what HD sculpting is for.

 I don't see that it's essentially different. If I, as a non-PA, make a base level morph I'm free to flatten out the existing nipples and make new ones elsewhere provided I'm prepared to make the appropriate changes to the UVs/textures. I'd just have to live with the compatibility issues. Now, since with Genesis 9 there is no base level nipple detail I suppose it would be possible to accidentally put the nipples in the wrong place but that would be immediately obvious once the textures are loaded. So if a PA moves some detail at any level it will be because they had a good reason to do so (probably because they’re making something so non-standard that compatibility isn’t an issue). But in most cases they will just follow the template and put them in the default position. I just can’t see any reason to try repositioning common details like nipples or crease lines in the HD morph when it’s just as easy and more logical and compatible to do it in the base morph. 

What tends to get lost in the discussion is that the easiest way to make sure that the nipples and navel don't get displaced too much by any changes made by the HD morph is to do the shaping at the subdivision level you will be making the HD and then go back to base resolution before sending the base morph back to DAZ Studio, since you need that before you try to import the higher subdivision.

Malandar

If I had known that this product was going to be such a pain to use, I would not have bought it. I wish I had tried to use it during the first 30 days... But I didn't have time.

ommblaze

I am not skilled at using Blender, to make morphs needed to modify such clothing when nipples are applied. I don't understand why Genesis 9 clothing does not work with nipples, but I think that Daz should fix it! Just my two cents. There should be at least disclosure, like "This product is Nipple Complient". I have never been PC, noty starting now. I think that selling stuff, without disclosure is wrong. Now there have been a few improvements to be fair, but too little and not enough.