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This is why Blender is viewed as "hard". I was with involved the Blender project from the time that it initially wen't OSS and had the organizational growing pains. It was good, fast, lean and mean. Its interface was different, but so much so that it wasn't too hard to "make the jump" because the chances of confusing methods was minimal. Then Blender got "featuritis". Everything was being thrown into it, including the kitchen sink. The interface became bloated and slow.
I finally dropped "being a part of the community" in the early 2.5 series because it was obvious that the project was going toward "do everything". Since then, I've used blender when appropriate but I don't actively use it anymore. IMO, the NLE and other pieces should have been split off into separate packages. There is just too much there for most folks to deal with.
Then there's the "Jack of all trades, Master of none" property of Blender. It's very good at many things, but far enough away from "good enough" to push people away.
Kendall
I understand your take on it and would more often then not agree. However, if the interface and underlying structure is designed well so that people can lego block it for their needs then we have the potential of having the best of both worlds. A tool that is custom to just what any given person wants while having the ability to move between different functions smoothly without the import/export nightmare we so often face now with using separate tools.
I'm not against using separate tools and I am for coming up with better methods to move our work between tools, but having said that, reality is that we often loose things and have to jump through hoops and probably will have to for the foreseable future the more we have to move between different/separate tools. So, it's a balancing act.
As to the VSE being integrated, for anyone who does a lot of combining of 3d models with film or who just want to animate their 3d vs do static renders usually will vote strongly for keeping it integrated.
...the part about customisation that stopped me cold was having to write code to do it.
Blender ia a very powerful programme, however I kind of side with Kendall that it has become too "all encompassing". Basically I just needed a good stable modelling programme as I already had software for composing scenes, riging, and rendering. I don't bother with animation as I don't have a warehouse sized render farm at my disposal. Yet whenever I open the current version of Blender I get all those tools and menus I don't need thrown at me when all I want to do is modelling.
I feel Blender would be more useful and efficient were it designed on more of a modular/plugin structure. If you just wanted polygon/vertex modelling you should be able to download that module. This way each module could be more refined and therefore more dedicated to the task at hand, thus eliminating the compromises J.O.A.T. applications usually involve.
I still sort of look at Daz, Hexagon, and Bryce in this manner. Three programmes that are dedicated to specific tasks, but are also compatible with each other through bridge links. I cannot help but think that if Daz development really dedicated itself to improving all three, they could have a powerful 3D suite.
That's the opposite of mine; Blenders is great, whereas Daz and Hexagon make it difficult.
I tend to agree with this sentiment
if you ZERO money to spend on 3D software
and wish to learn more than one aspect of 3D /CG
Blender is a good single option for you.
My mind is "compartmental" so I actually prefer
a pipeline of purpose built tools that specialize
in one area or another.
Sure it costs more both terms of learning time and purchases
But to me its worth it and makes me a better overall "CG generalist"
I only truly got serious about blender and its node system after the introduction of the cycles renderer and really only use blender for that purpose.
Sure the modeling/Sculpting tools are decent but I will never use them.
I have at my disposal MODO &Lightwave 2015
and as an animator I will use Apple "imovie HD"for video editing
my renders before touching that primitive looking NLE in blender.
It is this Mindset that kept me from ever upgrading my C4D from version 11.5 on the Mac OS.
With each release Maxon kept adding more an more "engineering" type tools and motion tracking tools and fancy new shader materials, Autodesk style "Service agreements" while leaving its ,(frankly weak) Character anmation tools untouched.
Thus here at version 17 and $3700 USD for the full studio
Maxon C4D still has NO abilty to make characters lipsinc from imported audio
no automatic retargeting of Character motion Data from any source
like BVH, no Ragdoll Character physics and the cloth engine is useless on Character clothing only good for draping bedsheets table cloths and window drapes.
Thankfully these Character options are available to me in Daz Studio and exportable to my "old" C4D for rendering.
No argument here, people work differently. That is why I debated so strongly in the various forums during the whole UI debate for a more flexible UI. The "lego block" aspect of being able to pick 'modules' along with easily customizable 'skins' for the interface are really going to be the only saving factor for many large applications going forward I believe. People are used to 'apps' which do the small/specialized thing and are interchangeable like lego blocks for a given person's needs. App type mentality will rule the future for most uses/most people just as we moved from the mainframe to personal computers. Larger programs will have to adapt to a changing market to continue to be viable. I still think though that larger programs like Blender have some advantages if they adapt their infrastructure to a new paradygm.
Insert obvious comments about how cost effects people differently based on their circumstances.
Nodes are the future for many functions, although linear space still has it's purposes. The node system in Blender is very nice/well designed. I'm glad they haven't totally thrown out the VSE and gone totally node based though.
Nowhere near Zbrush, but they've gotten a lot better. The thing about sculpting is that people are still figuring out the whole aspect of using sculpting as an adjunct to other tools in a low poly workflow (using them more like an extension to a proportional editing tool) or having to do retopo/bakes to get a usable model that won't kill a machine in a complex scene or when trying to animate. Zbrush in it's 'separate tool' aspect reinforces the concept that one sculpts then retopos. When better algorithms come along for remeshing along with automatic baking/transfering of bakes between environments (or a ptex type of solution...) this won't be an issue as much, but that may take longer then people expect. Especially as we have new environments (realtime 3d & VR for instance) that continue to be resource sensitive.
MODO and iMovie are both nice tools, no argument there. Although last time I used iMovie it didn't have an integrated compositor, tracking solution etc... Blender's compositing functions are very powerful, as is it's tracking solution, NLA and other advanced tools. With C4D you get a lot of this functionality but I don't believe it has the same level of plugin support Blender has. After all, Blender has people in research labs around the world contributing to it's plugins. The trick is to find they exist currently.
I was thinking this as you were discussing the points just previous to this last statement. This in the end sums up a thought I have about Blender and that is, I believe most people underestimate the features/strengths of Blender, sometimes even the core community and the developers themselves.
Wasn't the video editing stuff originally a fork of Blender, or am I mixing it up with something else?
I don't know personally but I can say that forks do get wrapped into the core package just as plugins do. It's one of the cool features of an active Open Source community. Anyone can branch off for their own purposes and if it's useful it can become a core item. If Blender can move their model to a more module based approach this could have amazing implications.
If anyone uses Blender or is just interested in seeing some of what it can do, I have a series of Blender boards on Pinterest (a new way to bookmark ;) at me on Pinterest. I only started it a couple weeks ago so it will hopefully get more refined over time but there are a good amount of resources there already. If anyone checks it out and has comments/questions they can post them in this thread: Reference & Ideation
I hope the discussion about Blender isn't getting to OT, but my goal has always been integrating DAZ with other environments, and for me that includes Blender, especially in the Linux world so my reason for getting involved in the current thread of the discussion.
...depends on the perspective one comes from. As a painter and illustrator who worked in traditional media, I find Daz's, Carrara's, and Hexagon's UI almost natural to work with. As Andrew alluded to a couple years ago, too much thinking involved just to do something simple. Some people work better that way and that's fine, I and others don't.
To bring this discussion back around this is why I am hoping that during the next three years and six months, Daz comes around and recognises Linux. Many of us have huge investments in plugins and content and would like to continue using it all after W7 starts pushing up daisies.
Getting my head around the basics of Blenders UI helped me to understand what was going on in DS. There are tool sets in DS I don't use, some because they are not relevant to what I am trying to do, and some because I don't know how to use them (or even that they are there, or where they are, or what they do). In Blender I use the tools that are relevant and the rest are there for if I ever need them or when I can get around to using them. The UI doesn't seem cluttered as long as I know where the relevant tools are. One thing I do realize is that if Blender was the only app I was using, almost all of it would be relevant and I think Blender is generally configured for use by such people.
If Daz Studio worked plug and play in Linux like it does in Windows, I would ditch Windows in a heartbeat. Probably more to the point, I would ditch Microsoft. I actually like Windows, just not the way so much of it is implemented and controlled. I seriously dislike the lack of control and say I have in what it will and won't do and how it will and won't do it, to say nothing of the direction Microsoft seems to be going generally.
I only use Imovie as a straight cutting station
we have Final cut pro 5 but its more designed for teams of editors working with footage from disparate sources making it overkill for most of my CG animation editing these days
all of my compositing and visual effects are Done in After Effects CS and or Autodesk combustion.
Ive seen blenders node based compositor in action and its good for basic color grading ,blurs &blooms etc but for actual post effects I need something with a more mature toolset and the VFX plugins available for After effects are unmatched IMHO
Actually since C4D Directly saves Scene Light & Camera Data to after effects project files for comping the cam tracking feature now in C4D is of no interest to me because of:
A) I dont deal with comping of live footage with CG elements
B) in the event that would need to the mocca motion tracking app is bundled with after effects ,or at least it used to be.
IMHOI think manywith well defined creative objectives, give blender an honest look and find that when you take many of the functions and look at them apart from the whole such as the compositor or NLE many find themselve needing more mature purpose built applications to perform these tasks.
For me the Iclone Daz combo for Character animation is unmatched for example.
The said I am very happy that blender cycles engine is not so tied to a particular GPU brand name that is punishes those who donot use such particular manufacturer.
Perhaps there is a slow change in the waters. Photomatix now has a Linux version. It is not the full Pro version, but perhaps in time.
There's not enough stuff "going Linux" for me to be able to make use of it. At all, "full stop".
In my opinion, there needs to be a major move by 80% of software makers for the whole market to decide to get off their duffs and do it, or face declining revenue to the competition who DID make the move.
And Linux needs to be better. There, I said it.
The user still needs to be too much of an expert. In everything, from installing the OS to knowing which USB devices you can plug in and which ones will prevent a successful boot. Windows 10 doesn't require this. Mac doesn't require this. Linux needs to step up its game. There, I said that too.
That depends on the version of Linux your looking at, as some are for advanced users and others are for beginner users.
I did run into the MOST user friendly and easy to setup and install version of Linux and it is called Zorin.
Even my non-computer savy aunts can and are using Zorin.
Would DazStudio and Poser 64bit run on that one? It looks interesting!
And, for what it's worth, I found that unless you're using software that is built with Windows specific functionality there are enough open source equivalents to major application suites that you can do just about anything in Linux that you can in Windows. Blender has a Linux version, there are open source software suites that are functionally equivalent to Microsoft Office, etc. DAZ Studio is one of two applications I use that need to be made available on Linux before I permanently get rid of Windows and I'm helping the development team for the other software package port it to Linux, since I'm not the only user that wants it done.
Between DAW, VST instruments, 3D art, and other applications, we're not there yet. In fact, I'd go so far as to say we're WAY not there yet.
Office applications and Blender aren't going to get me there.
VST: http://linux-sound.org/linux-vst-plugins.html
DAW: https://ardour.org/, http://www.rosegardenmusic.com/
There are some nice music programs on Linux.
To say that Linux "isn't there" for 3D Art is ludicrous. Most of the professional 3D packages exist for Linux natively. It is true that hobby level 3D isn't in Linux to a major degree (outside of Blender, but Blender pretty much has a monopoly on Linux mindshare)
Kendall
I've tried to get DAZ to run on it and did not get the results I was hoping for. As the content management service was causing problems.
If someone does get DAZ to run in linux well, they should write a document of HOW to get Daz to run in linux.
And someone seems to have a basic method for doing it.
The linux they used was Mint, now Mint and Zorin are very closely related versions of linux, as both use the Ubuntu/debain core.
Silo now has a Linux version which I thought was fantastic. It ran on my install of Xubuntu with no problems. And yes, Linux has some great music programs. I always really liked Clementine: not only does it have music stations programmed in, but you can add any you want to. And it organizes all your music for you. Gpodder is another awesome program if you watch podcasts like I do. The OS world is full of great software. I mean, I've been using Inkscape and Scribus for some time. Like others, if the Windows programs I use had Linux versions, I'd drop Windows and Microsoft in a New York minute ;).
Laurie
FWIW Microsoft uses Linux to develop their programs including Windows
Still don't make Windows Linux ;). I'd rather Linux be Linux and Windows...be gone. LOL
Laurie
Agreed
Windows 10 has a new Ubuntu subsystem that allows native Linux programs to run in Windows 10. Canonical/Ubuntu sold out.
Kendall
Having a real shell would be nice. Has anyone tried this? Does it offer ssh and scp? Is there a package manager to allow installation of basic gnu tools? I tried activating it in my headless machine, but it isn't showing up in the list of windows features. Either I have to reboot or it isn't available in the home version of 10. My version is higher than the version where it was listed as beta...so, it should be there....grrr
Might be a Pro and Enterprise only feature.
Laurie
As far as I know, Linux daemons will not run on this subsystem since Windows does not forward the ports. If you want incoming services you're still stuck with the poor security Windows versions. Keep in mind, that the Kernel/HAL etc are still Windows. This is really more of a WINE (LINE?) for Windows.
Kendall
I'd prefer the reverse (Windows in Linux) so I can turn it off or hide it when I get irritated ;). I always hated WINE, even tho it was the only way to get Photoshop CS2 running on my Linux box.
Laurie
At this point, it's only available if you're running a Windows Insider preview that supports it.